For Those Of You Who Believe Reffing Is Biased Against The Canucks, Look At This From The Nhl Website.

[Honeydew]

Calls need to be more consistent then being uncalled for, this is getting a bit tad ridiculous imo seeing how the Canucks lost a few calls especially the hit on D.Sedin from last night made me question the ref in general against the Canucks.

[poetica]

Doesn't that mean we're 6th in the league for having spent more time short handed, the tune of 2+ periods worth of hockey over the course of the season? I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist (I'm usually more in the "the refs are not consistent enough and allow unknown factors to influence the game when the rules should be all that matter" camp) but I gotta say, that raises my eyebrow.

Vancouver is tied for 2nd in the league for the most number of misconducts this season. (Philadelphia has 17. Van and NJ have 15. Boston and Dallas have 13. All other teams are in the single digits. Detroit has NONE.)

We're 26th in the league for overall penalty minutes per game at 13.2. For comparison, Chicago is 10th, with 10.3 average PIM/G (despite having only one fewer major).

Looking at minor penalties alone, Chicago has received the fewest in the league, at 225. Vancouver, on the other hand, is 23rd in the league with 288. And in case anyone's wondering, Vancouver has only received 4 bench minors this season (half the number Chicago has received).

Having seen the liberties other teams feel comfortable taking with our players when compared to how heavily our players are penalized for doing the same thing or less, those numbers certainly do make one wonder if there isn't a bias against Vancouver.

[canidiot]

hoping to even out the stats is the problem!!!!

that plays right into the "game management" theory.

the aves took 3 minors to 0 for the nucks in the first.

now they ramp up the hits and holds.

if a ref is expected to "manage a game he can no longer call marginal calls against the aves.

thats why it was a 2min minor for the most blatant elbow to the head that i have seen since moore hit nazzy.

i think if you play the mcsorrley hit on brashier in the same clip as the kieth on sedin. you will see more intent to put a player out of the game.

shannahan....the nfl is calling you a spineless b%*ch.

[CHIPS]

This is of course for those of you who look at things objectively and make judgements accordingly. If you are going to come into this with your subjective biases, there is no hope for you anyway so you might as well not bother with all this.

This is time on the PP minus time on the PK for this season. If anyone has reason to complain, it is the Colorado Avalanche. Look at that differential, the Avs have had about the same time spent on the PK as Vancouver, and yet, when you factor in calls that go their way, they have spent 60 MINUTES more killing penalties than Vancouver. I watch every Avs game, and nearly every Vancouver game, and in all honesty, the penalties are much more lopsided night in and night out against Colorado than they are for Vancouver.

And for those of you who will argue that Colorado is just a bad team and therefore are not able to draw penalties to get PP's, there is no way they are THAT much worse (as these stats show) and still able to be in playoff contention. It just would not happen.

1. Car: 87:55

2. Cbj: 87:20

3. Fla: 72:16

4. SJS: 61:36

5. Chi: 57:56

6. Tor 42:29

7. Det 38:42

...

13. NYI: 10:58

14. Buf: -0:53

15. Cgy: -3:28

16. Bos: -5:31

17. NJD: -7:11

...

23. Stl -34:48

24. Edm -35:10

25. Van -40:51

26. Wpg: -43:56

27. Was: -46:09

28. Ott: -64:34

29. Dal: -64:57

30. Col: -103:38

Here is the link:

http://www.nhl.com/i...penaltyKillTime

[Northern]

That was a good call. They need to do more of that. That nonsense after the whistle isn't hockey; it is garbage and needs to be cleaned up.

[Li'l Fra]

Hating the garbage reffing in the NHL right now!

[ECross]

Thanks to those of you who responded with some intelligence. It's a shame that there are a lot of Canuck fans out there that give the rest of you a bad name.

This is how I see the situation:

Referees have been known to make "reputation" calls; meaning, there are players who have earned the respect of the refs, those who have yet to earn the respect of the refs (many of the youngest players), and those who have earned the disrespect of the refs. So, when there are calls that depend on the ref's view of the situation, whether or not what happened actually warrants a penalty, they sometimes take into account who the player is and make their call accordingly.

Whether or not you like this or if it should be in the game is not what I am arguing for or against here, so I will just leave it at "reputation calls do exist."

With that established, I will continue by saying that, in my opinion, as well as the opinion of MANY people outside of the Lower Mainland, there are players on the Canucks who have earned disrespect, or at least yet to earn respect. The Sedins have dived and embellished calls in the past. That is a fact that cannot be argued if you aren't a Canucks homer. Burrows does juvenile things like the finger biting incident or the attempt to knee Duncan Keith in the groin as he was on top of him last night. Again, fact. Also, the Canucks as a whole are known to do a ton of complaining, whining, and woe-is-me-ing - that means the players, the coach, and even up to management. (How many other GM's do you see make a public spectacle of complaining about the refs to the extent that Gillis has? http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=560996 None.)

When all of these thing are objectively taken into consideration, is it really that surprising that, on a game-to-game basis, the Canucks don't get the benefit of the doubt or help from the refs?

If the Canucks cleaned up their act, meaning stopped complaining and certain players stopped digging for calls or doing things that completely destroys their integrity, then perhaps those split-second decisions made by refs would turn out differentely.

There is no conspiracy to do whatever it takes to make sure that the Canucks never win a Stanley Cup. Their own actions have earned them the reputation that the refs, consciously or unconsciously, and rightly or wrongly, take into account when having to make split-second calls. The refs don't have replays for penalties. The refs don't have multiple angles for penalties. The refs don't have slow-motion for penalties. All they have is human eyes to track a fast game with a ton of things going on, so it really isn't surprising that the Canucks' previous actions and reputations effect a decision made in 1/10th of a second.

Agree or disagree with me, but this argument is built on what I have seen and what I have gathered from other people who assess the situation from facts alone and not with an underlying preferential view in favour of the Vancouver Canucks. They are not the saints so many people try to make them out to be.

[manudibango]

The diferent in first and last is almost 200 minutes,TWOHUNDRED ,pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

very clear something wrong with the refs.THE NHL NOW IS NOT A FAIRPLAY LEAGUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Amish Rake Fighter]

the refs are bad for both sides... last night there was a stupid penalty on Bickel (i think it was him) for a little face wash on Kassian, the refs also missed a too many men on the ice against Vancouver, and a goaltender interference against Chicago

[ECross]

The refs not only bring about justice via calling a slash, or hook, etc. The refs also bring about justice on a larger scale where players have done an injustice such as diving, whining, complaining, or being, for lack of better words, gutless, cowardly, rats.

As Aristotle said, justice is an intermediate or mean. The refs, as the bringers about of justice, are bringing things back to an intermediate.

Not only the present, but the past as well, comes into play when a man is administering justice.

[cdubuya]

Why the hell does everyone expect PP time to equal PK time in an ideal league. Some teams are less disciplined or less effective at drawing penalties. Gillis complained about this same sort of the thing last year when I felt like Chicago played a much more disciplined first round series than we did.

[zduck14]

I don't think these numbers indicate much at all. In Vancouver's case, having one of the top powerplays AND one of the top penalty kills in the league, it's a given they'll be closer to the bottom. The opposite is true for Columbus and Carolina.

Vancouver kills off more penalties than the opposition and therefore they're on the penalty kill for the full 2 minutes. If they score 20 seconds into their next powerplay, that puts them on the penalty kill for 1:40 longer than on the powerplay.

That said, I agree that the reffing, league wide, has been absolute crap. I've been saying for a while now that the NHL needs to adopt the NFL's reffing system giving out one year contracts to each ref and taking away their union.

[AppleJack]

I don't think its just against Vancouver its seems to be against pretty much every CDN team except for the Maple Laughs, and well to be honest it almost seems like the only teams it seems to allow to get away what they really want are the original six teams or if two teams are out matched. For example if one of the NON original six good team is playing a team at the bottom of the league they call stupid calls against the good team in order to keep the 'bad' team in the game. It also seems to happen a lot if one of the higher teams is playing against a lower level team that is in a play off race. It almost seems like Bettman oh I mean the refs are trying to make it so the 'underdog' or the Original six have a better shot at winning the game!

[CHIPS]

Thanks to those of you who responded with some intelligence. It's a shame that there are a lot of Canuck fans out there that give the rest of you a bad name.

This is how I see the situation:

Referees have been known to make "reputation" calls; meaning, there are players who have earned the respect of the refs, those who have yet to earn the respect of the refs (many of the youngest players), and those who have earned the disrespect of the refs. So, when there are calls that depend on the ref's view of the situation, whether or not what happened actually warrants a penalty, they sometimes take into account who the player is and make their call accordingly.

Whether or not you like this or if it should be in the game is not what I am arguing for or against here, so I will just leave it at "reputation calls do exist."

With that established, I will continue by saying that, in my opinion, as well as the opinion of MANY people outside of the Lower Mainland, there are players on the Canucks who have earned disrespect, or at least yet to earn respect. The Sedins have dived and embellished calls in the past. That is a fact that cannot be argued if you aren't a Canucks homer. Burrows does juvenile things like the finger biting incident or the attempt to knee Duncan Keith in the groin as he was on top of him last night. Again, fact. Also, the Canucks as a whole are known to do a ton of complaining, whining, and woe-is-me-ing - that means the players, the coach, and even up to management. (How many other GM's do you see make a public spectacle of complaining about the refs to the extent that Gillis has? http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=560996 None.)

When all of these thing are objectively taken into consideration, is it really that surprising that, on a game-to-game basis, the Canucks don't get the benefit of the doubt or help from the refs?

If the Canucks cleaned up their act, meaning stopped complaining and certain players stopped digging for calls or doing things that completely destroys their integrity, then perhaps those split-second decisions made by refs would turn out differentely.

There is no conspiracy to do whatever it takes to make sure that the Canucks never win a Stanley Cup. Their own actions have earned them the reputation that the refs, consciously or unconsciously, and rightly or wrongly, take into account when having to make split-second calls. The refs don't have replays for penalties. The refs don't have multiple angles for penalties. The refs don't have slow-motion for penalties. All they have is human eyes to track a fast game with a ton of things going on, so it really isn't surprising that the Canucks' previous actions and reputations effect a decision made in 1/10th of a second.

Agree or disagree with me, but this argument is built on what I have seen and what I have gathered from other people who assess the situation from facts alone and not with an underlying preferential view in favour of the Vancouver Canucks. They are not the saints so many people try to make them out to be.

[OneToughCustomer]

Your argument is too simplistic. You would need to factor in success rate on the power play and success rate on the penalty kill along with overall times on the PP or PK.

Canucks are 2.7% better on the Power Play, therefore spending fewer minutes on the ice in only 9 more opportunities. Canucks are 3.1% better on the Pentaly Kill therefore spending more minutes on the ice in only 5 more opportunities.

You have to factor in the different playing styles. The Canucks try to play a puck possession game and play between the whistles. The Avs have quite a few guys that run around and they get physical: their forwards and their D. The league does not give Vancouver any preferential treatment. But it does give teams Vancovuer plays against preferential treatment.

[Lukenelson]

This seems like a classic case of "made my point before looking at the stats to see if they backed me up".

Because if you had looked at the stats you would have not made this post. The Canucks are in the bottom 5 in this statistical category! Suggesting that the 30th place team has reason to be upset but not the 25th place team is patently absurd!!

Never mind that the whole idea of trying to prove a bias for or against the Canucks is fairly silly, this bit of stats (were they even relevant) would only go to support those who feel the Canucks suffer a bias against them.

[MikeyD]

Shane O'Brien anybody?

[kjames05]

Your argument is too simplistic. You would need to factor in success rate on the power play and success rate on the penalty kill along with overall times on the PP or PK.

Canucks are 2.7% better on the Power Play, therefore spending fewer minutes on the ice in only 9 more opportunities. Canucks are 3.1% better on the Pentaly Kill therefore spending more minutes on the ice in only 5 more opportunities.

You have to factor in the different playing styles. The Canucks try to play a puck possession game and play between the whistles. The Avs have quite a few guys that run around and they get physical: their forwards and their D. The league does not give Vancouver any preferential treatment. But it does give teams Vancovuer plays against preferential treatment.

[Smashian Kassian]

That was a good call. They need to do more of that. That nonsense after the whistle isn't hockey; it is garbage and needs to be cleaned up.

[longsuffering]

Its strange how our elite players (IE the twins) can get cross checked from behind with no call. Would that happen to the likes of Crosby, Datsyk, Zetterburg,Kessel, or Stamkos? I think not. I can understand allowing the obstruction to slow down the game to prevent injuries. How does that explain allowing hits from behind on two the the most talented players on one the NHL's biggest market teams? Its only a matter of time until one or both of the twins will have a major injury from being hit from behind into the boards. Then the NHL will tell us that they didn't see this coming and how there is no bias against the Canucks ....right.