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While I Disagree With Shanny's Decision, He's Not The Enemy Of The Game Here.


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#1 drukes1234

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:04 AM

... The refs and potentially the commissioner are.


We heard over and over that the refs are calling less penalties to slow down the game to prevent concussions? How's that working out? Honestly look at the head shots in the game and how many of them happen because of pure speed and how many simply happen because when you're on the ice adrenaline takes over and you can act like a fkin idiot, even if you normally think rationally. The bottom line is this: when the refs don't call MAJOR penalties for brutal hits, the players have to take things into their own hands. Major penalties hurt the team immensely, when Marchand took out Salo the game was tied, Marchand got a major, we scored 2 goals on that penalty and ended the game. Had that been a playoff game that would have been an enormous deterent for the rat to think twice next time. What if the refs would have called a minor, like they tend to do very often? Would Weise go and run Thomas? I don't know, but I think the major penalty makes him feel like he doesn't NEED to do something. I don't remember what Moore got on his hit on Nazzy, if I recall correctly he may have not even received an on ice penalty.... that turned out well for Steve, the Canucks and the league in general.

Sorry for venting, but I'm simply disgusted with the way this league is operating

#2 debluvscanucks

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:20 AM

There's very much a truth in that desperate times call for desperate measures.

Teams (ours) get desperate when they're grasping for answers...answers that the league should be providing (but have failed to). I, too, am disgusted...the last few years have been atrocious in how the refs have failed to do their jobs.

After the whistle, a zero tolerance should be applied in an instantaneous "you're outta here" way. None of this Brad Marchand having a seizure on Daniel's face crap. I can't count how many times Burr gets crosschecked after a whistle, often in the face. Manure.

(and damn if this edit didn't butcher/lose half my comment...)

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#3 realnucksfan2010

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:29 AM

Great post, not much else you can say but disgusting!!!!!!
Betman has to go, this is not BASKETBALL its hockey!!!!!!

#4 drukes1234

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

For what it's worth, Keith's elbow on Daniel received the same amount of time in the penalty box that he would have received had he SHOT THE PUCK OVER THE GLASS.............................


Disgrace.

#5 debluvscanucks

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:40 AM

If this is his "new NHL", I don't want it. In response, I want a Gino type who can take care of business by challenging every single idiot on the ice to answer. A hulk who rips his shirt off with a smile on his face that says come over here so we can talk.

Because the message is there is no message. Some teams can get away with murder while others shouldn't bat their eyes too hard or they're gone.

OK, think I'm done (probably not).

My neighbours are hammering...maybe I'll go try and work it out with on them.

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#6 TimberWolf

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:48 AM

The only penalty that happened when Moore hit Naz was Brad May getting penalized for trying to fight him as he ran off.

I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#7 CanKnucklehead89

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:00 AM

I was just reading an article on the CBC website talking about the insufficiency of the Keith suspension and one thing that I found interesting (and disturbing) was that when Shannahan suspended Wisnewski for 8 games at the beginning of the season GMs told him to cool it with lengthy suspensions.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...suspension.html

and here's the quote:

"When Shanahan cracked down early on with suspensions like the eight-gamer he dealt Columbus Blue Jackets defenceman James Wisniewski to start the season some general managers got upset, piped up and told Shanahan to cool it."

I find this pretty disturbing, it suggests that despite all of the rule changes and the reported concern about dangerous plays that we here in the media all the time, when it comes right down to it Managers don't seem to want to take the steps that are necessary to actually clean up the league.

I think that Shannahan really wants to make an impact on the game and make it safer for player but he seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. Until GMs and owners get on board with longer suspensions all we're going to see is 3 to 5 game suspensions unless something truly brutal happens.

#8 justsayin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:08 AM

I agree Canucklehead89 that short suspensions are due to the GM's complaining. However, the Keith elbow truly was brutal. That was a clear attempt to injure if I ever saw one.

#9 Navyblue

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

The league doesn't have concrete rules because then they wouldn't be able to manage playoff series for maximum revenue and/or manage games during the regular season to help struggling teams to give a false sense of "parity".
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#10 CanKnucklehead89

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:14 AM

I agree Canucklehead89 that short suspensions are due to the GM's complaining. However, the Keith elbow truly was brutal. That was a clear attempt to injure if I ever saw one.


True, that was a poor choice of words, what I meant was something far beyond what we're used to seeing. Keith's elbow, while brutal, was unfortunately nothing new.

#11 debluvscanucks

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

I was just reading an article on the CBC website talking about the insufficiency of the Keith suspension and one thing that I found interesting (and disturbing) was that when Shannahan suspended Wisnewski for 8 games at the beginning of the season GMs told him to cool it with lengthy suspensions.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...suspension.html

and here's the quote:

"When Shanahan cracked down early on with suspensions like the eight-gamer he dealt Columbus Blue Jackets defenceman James Wisniewski to start the season some general managers got upset, piped up and told Shanahan to cool it."

I find this pretty disturbing, it suggests that despite all of the rule changes and the reported concern about dangerous plays that we here in the media all the time, when it comes right down to it Managers don't seem to want to take the steps that are necessary to actually clean up the league.

I think that Shannahan really wants to make an impact on the game and make it safer for player but he seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. Until GMs and owners get on board with longer suspensions all we're going to see is 3 to 5 game suspensions unless something truly brutal happens.


But who's steering the ship here?

It's his duty, when caught between the rock/hard place, to navigate safely between them. If not, he'll simply end up running the ship aground as he's failed to pick a course and stick to it. Intimidation shouldn't factor in - some of the GM's in place are reflective of the gentleman's (not so much) club that has had a firm grip on things for far too long. It was a corrupt and self serving group at times and Shanny's the man in place to make the final calls.

I don't "blame" Shanny and understand that he's the puppet at the end of the strings....but he needs to cut them. He needs to stand alone and do his job led only by what HE feels is right.

Another very brilliant man had to take this stance once with some of these very types - his name is Mike Gillis.

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#12 Rink on Renfrew

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

In response to the poster above that quoted the CBC article.

It's really unfortunate that the incident happend to a Blue Jacket player. We all know the league would want nothing more than Columbus to succeed. I remember thinking at the time atta boy Shanny, let's get serious on this, especially because the hit had nothing to do with a hockey play. But then comes the outside interference. The Gm's which I find odd....most likely one or two, I can't see a number of GM's caring that much including ours, Pittsburghs, Calgarys, etc.....

I thought it was the NHLPA as well given the player in question was a high earner, I believe he forfeited nearly half a million dollars.

So there you have it. Not even one week into the season and Shanny is already getting told how to do his job. This is how the NHL is operated. Much like any good old' Mafia, give people positions in your organization, yet be able to veto at your own discretion.

To address the OP I agree Shanny isn't the enemy here. He is merly a puppet on a string, his videos are just the smoke screen.

#13 shane1733

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:24 AM

Jeeze even Roenick said in 1040 yesterday that reffing in this league is brutal! And he was holding back.

#14 CanKnucklehead89

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:26 AM

But who's steering the ship here?

It's his duty, when caught between the rock/hard place, to navigate safely between them. If not, he'll simply end up running the ship aground as he's failed to pick a course and stick to it. Intimidation shouldn't factor in - some of the GM's in place are reflective of the gentleman's (not so much) club that has had a firm grip on things for far too long. It was a corrupt and self serving group at times and Shanny's the man in place to make the final calls.

I don't "blame" Shanny and understand that he's the puppet at the end of the strings....but he needs to cut them. He needs to stand alone and do his job led only by what HE feels is right.

Another very brilliant man had to take this stance once with some of these very types - his name is Mike Gillis.


I generally agree with you and it would be wonderful if Shanny did take a stand but I have a feeling that it's not that simple. I don't know what high level NHL politics are like but I'm sure they are complicated and a simple action that we all know is the right thing for Shanny to do may not be as simple as it seems.

I know you're not criticizing Shanny and I'm not arguing your point, just want to present my perspective on why things are the way they are.

#15 Wheels22

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:30 AM

Imagine if we were one of the 5-10 lucky teams that the refs let get away with everything (including murder). We'd win the Cup every year

#16 Danthecanucksfan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:35 AM

I agree Canucklehead89 that short suspensions are due to the GM's complaining. However, the Keith elbow truly was brutal. That was a clear attempt to injure if I ever saw one.


I'm getting sick of hits like these, what ever happened to respect, Danny's hit wasn't on purpose, and for the most part was a clean hit.

Keith said he was gonna get him and he did. he threw a violent elbow to Danny's head and if it had hit him in a different spot on the head or a different spot on the ice..... it would be the Crosby situation all over again

#17 krazysl

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:40 AM

NHL reffs are a joke. International reffs are way better. No one was bitter in the olympics. This suspension only opens a gate way to another bertuzzi type incident. I maen what if one of the sedin's sticks out the elbow and takes out kane, it would be the first time offender rule so maybe 5 games at most boo frkin whooo. Oh never mind the league would throw the book at them because the league is currupt. Rome entire SCF for a hit on not even a star in the league how can they justify this. JOKE My prediction Nashville, St lois, Pitsburgh and philli get babysat in the playoffs and are directed in the playoffs.

#18 Scoob

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:45 AM

It's too bad Shanny couldn't watch every game the same way we do. I don't watch the 'Hawks play anybody else but the Canucks, so I can't speak of Keith's playstyle vs. other teams. But against the Canucks, he really plays a mean style of cheap and dirty (as opposed to say, Burrow's style which is more pest style). What I mean by that is he hacks and slashes, and makes deliberate attempts to hurt our players, usually by the bench on a change.

But the real problem, I agree with the OP, is that the refs don't nip this type of stuff at the bud and call it early. We all saw how our team did towards the end. I think Nashville was the only team that didn't take liberties, but Chicago, San Jose, and Boston all played dirty with barely any calls going our way. Gillis cried about it during the Chicago series for a reason. I really wish refs would call the playoffs like they do the first 20 games of the season. I'd sooner see a show of skill prevail in the playoffs than thuggery.

#19 shazzam

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

NHL reffs are a joke. International reffs are way better. No one was bitter in the olympics. This suspension only opens a gate way to another bertuzzi type incident. I maen what if one of the sedin's sticks out the elbow and takes out kane, it would be the first time offender rule so maybe 5 games at most boo frkin whooo. Oh never mind the league would throw the book at them because the league is currupt. Rome entire SCF for a hit on not even a star in the league how can they justify this. JOKE My prediction Nashville, St lois, Pitsburgh and philli get babysat in the playoffs and are directed in the playoffs.


The refs in the gold medal game were o'halloran and mccreary, both from the NHL
o'halloran also reffed the game against the hawks on Wed.

#20 Tk-424

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:22 AM

I am a fan of hockey, but I don't understand how in a professional sport all of that crap happens between every whistle. People talk about it being a physical sport? So what? As a life long rugby player we hit each other all game but you don't see all of the cheap little extra hits/shoves/etc etc... In fact you don't see it in ANY other sport like you do in hockey. If you push a guy after the whistle in any other sport its almost always a penalty/technical/etc.

its not a part of the sport, its not a part of any sport. Sports are for athletes, people who show dedication to getting better at their sport. Sports is not for Goons.


There should just be blanket rules, whistle blows, you pull something, penalty. Its disgusting that refs have to physically work to pull people apart or break things up. Any other sports if you even touch the ref, (or vice versa if he has to touch you) your in big trouble.

Hockey players need to grow up, this isn't a bush league, they are supposed to be professional HOCKEY players

#21 SixtyEight

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

The refs are a disgrace, but really, what can you do? Hope Bettman does something? Unlikey hes probably busy in tanning his fat *** on a beach in florida

Edited by SixtyEight, 24 March 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#22 Tig'ol Bitties

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:31 AM

Hey, did you guys know that Bettman and Marchand are related? Just look at their damn noses... :bigblush:

Edited by Ti'gol Bitties, 24 March 2012 - 11:31 AM.

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#23 Deets

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

Imagine if we were one of the 5-10 lucky teams that the refs let get away with everything (including murder). We'd win the Cup every year


Uhh, I think you mean if we were one of the lucky 6 teams, as in the original 6.

#24 Patchoball Cannons

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:40 AM

So let me get this straight. Aaron Rome gets 4 games in the Stanley Cup Final for a clean hit, and Keith gets 5 regular season games for a dirty hit that was a clear intent to injure. Thanks for the consistancy NHL

#25 gragnanifan1

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

For what it's worth, Keith's elbow on Daniel received the same amount of time in the penalty box that he would have received had he SHOT THE PUCK OVER THE GLASS.............................


Disgrace.



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#26 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:56 AM

I generally agree with you and it would be wonderful if Shanny did take a stand but I have a feeling that it's not that simple. I don't know what high level NHL politics are like but I'm sure they are complicated and a simple action that we all know is the right thing for Shanny to do may not be as simple as it seems.

I know you're not criticizing Shanny and I'm not arguing your point, just want to present my perspective on why things are the way they are.


Money, power, politics and public relations. That's what factors into the whole issue around league discipline and reffing.

I think the reffing is atrocious, but in defence of the incompetent buffons in the striped sweaters, they too are confused by how Bettman and the Board of Governors want them to call the games. The rules are changing every week..the league's financial model needs every team to be successful in order to achieve its goals. IN order for this to happen, weaker teams and big market/original six teams need to be given preferential treatment depending on where they are in the standings or in a game. Bettman has said as much by saying the solution to selling hockey in the marginal/new markets in the states is to have competitive teams. How do you do that when fans aren't really interested and ownership only wants to spend to the cap floor?...easy...you "manage" the outcome to achieve your desired effect.

Another tactic they are using is to manage the press to create a climate of "hatred" beween teams and their fans. It gets press, sells papers and tickets and makes them lots of money. The spin off result is a total lack of respect by some players who have bought into the whole "hatred" mantra and by many fans. What other sport do you read about where the fans and players openly declare their absolute hatred and disdain for other players?

Much of the "management" of the game falls on the ref's shoulders and their ability to influence games with missed calls or weak calls is legendary. Imagine being told that your supposed to manage the game in such a way that no team gets an unfair advantage while at teh same time your mantra is that you want the players to decide the outcome. It's a no-win for the refs - and the players.

As for the league, the 3 point system has allowed for weaker teams to focus on hiring coaches that specialize in shut-down hockey and rely on OT and shoot outs to win enough extra points to stay competitive. All in all, the league has opened a Pandora's Box with it's "new NHL" business model and has no idea how to close the lid.

There is far too much power and money involved for them to change direction yet if they don't, hockey as we have all grown up loving, will cease to exist and we will be left with some aberration created by the league executive to create new fans and lots of money for the owners.

Sorry for the rant but it is beyond upsetting to watch the "suits' destroying what has aleways been the greatest game in the world. A magical blend of speed, finesse and roughness. Like so many things, the attempts to make it more popular and more profitable, are destroing the very thing we love so much.

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 24 March 2012 - 11:59 AM.


#27 Brunners

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:26 PM

So let me get this straight. Aaron Rome gets 4 games in the Stanley Cup Final for a clean hit, and Keith gets 5 regular season games for a dirty hit that was a clear intent to injure. Thanks for the consistancy NHL


In fairness Shanahan wasn't the one who made that decision, that was a ridiculous call by Mike Murphy IIRC.

Shanahan has already said that 1 play off game = 12 regular season games in his eyes, and I doubt Shanahan would have thought that Horton hit was worth a 48 game suspension.

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#28 DADDYROCK

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:35 PM

Let me just say this,

As a total fanatic about this wonderful sport, have played it and watched it for more years than I'd like to admit,(lets just say I saw the maple leafs win their last cup),there used to be only one ref.
At the beginning of the game they actually showed this person and made them part of the total package of the game.This WAS TO SHOW WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CALLS ON THE ICE.
Now we have two ref's and either of them seem to think they are responsible for some of the blatant fouls that are turning this game into a joke.The better the ref was the more important games would be reffed by them(you know, that good old you have earned it, type of thing).
Now it seems any knuckle head could ref the games.
Lets bring back a little responsiblity to the ref's and not have the ref standing sixty feet away make a call that the ref standing six feet away didn't call etc
I know that being a ref has got to be a hard job, but we all(or at least I hope we do ) have some reponsibilties in our own jobs to do the right thing and be FAIR to everyone. THAT'S ALL i HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.!

#29 kmotamed

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:43 PM

Shanny is a good man, and is pretty solid. Bettman has always been a virus, that's nothing new! And since Auger, the refs have been running wild... Without recourse!

#30 Tearloch7

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:53 PM

There is an old adage that says .. "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" .. until he proves otherwise, Shanahan is part of the problem.

If he feel strongly enough about doing his job properly, then he must stand up for the integrity of the game, or quit. Make a statement if you care, because if you don't, Shanny, you come across as an NHL shill, thus no better than Buttman or Campbell.

Crunch time and Shanny has been found lacking.

Edited by Tearloch7, 24 March 2012 - 01:00 PM.

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