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Transgender Contestant Booted Out Of Miss Vancouver Pagent


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#91 Super19

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:07 PM

Also, kind of thinking about this more, do you guys think its fair for the real women to be competing with the transgender women? The transgenders don't carry the same baggage as being a female, so is it fair for them to be competing with the naturals?

edit: never thought I'd see the day where I seriously refer to women(or men) as naturals. Sounds Sci-Fi esque

Edited by Super19, 25 March 2012 - 10:15 PM.

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#92 JamesTW

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

well what else are you gonna do? These people scare me, just the fact that you would want to change gender, then go through with it.. These surgerys should be illegal

Now there's an original comment from the ignorant crowd.

#93 JamesTW

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

Also, kind of thinking about this more, do you guys think its fair for the real women to be competing with the transgender women? The transgenders don't carry the same baggage as being a female, so is it fair for them to be competing with the naturals?

edit: never thought I'd see the day where I seriously refer to women(or men) as naturals. Sounds Sci-Fi esque

And sexist too congrats.

#94 Super19

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:55 PM

And sexist too congrats.

Alright, I'm willing to humbly ask how that was sexist.
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#95 ManUtd

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:00 PM

Also, kind of thinking about this more, do you guys think its fair for the real women to be competing with the transgender women? The transgenders don't carry the same baggage as being a female, so is it fair for them to be competing with the naturals?

edit: never thought I'd see the day where I seriously refer to women(or men) as naturals. Sounds Sci-Fi esque


What "baggage" are you referring to? You couldn't have been more vague.

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#96 Navyblue

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:05 PM

Is this thread still going? Holy frack. How much does this impact most of our lives? Yea, I thought so...

This kind of crap just distracts us from the real problems.
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#97 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:13 PM

Is this thread still going? Holy frack. How much does this impact most of our lives? Yea, I thought so...

This kind of crap just distracts us from the real problems.


Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it isn't important. Would you be so dismissive if the topic was racial? This is no different. Discrimination is discrimination, and nobody should be subjected to it. It's the 21st century, let's start treating everyone like human beings for a change.

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#98 Super19

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:15 PM

What "baggage" are you referring to? You couldn't have been more vague.

lol, I totally see how that sounds when I said that.

Essentially, I mean there are differences between males and females - it's simple but I don't mean anything crazy. In hindsight, I don't think it's healthy competition to pit a biological man against women in a beauty contest. If you're a girl, I'd like to ask is that bad, or is it a cultural taboo that should be broken?
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#99 taxi

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:43 PM

Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it isn't important. Would you be so dismissive if the topic was racial? This is no different. Discrimination is discrimination, and nobody should be subjected to it. It's the 21st century, let's start treating everyone like human beings for a change.


If this is just simple discrimination, should someone who was formerly male be allowed to compete in a woman's sporting event?

#100 ManUtd

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 12:00 AM

lol, I totally see how that sounds when I said that.

Essentially, I mean there are differences between males and females - it's simple but I don't mean anything crazy. In hindsight, I don't think it's healthy competition to pit a biological man against women in a beauty contest. If you're a girl, I'd like to ask is that bad, or is it a cultural taboo that should be broken?


It's a beauty contest. Her genetics are hardly going to give her much of an advantage beyond height (which isn't necessarily one at all). It's not like they're having strength contests. I suppose being genetically male would result in naturally less body fat but the hormones may have an effect on that. I know they change where it's preferentially stored but I'm not sure what it does for the amount.

Obviously she's not going to menstruate. I don't think many would find it fair to disqualify someone who was born a woman but had a hysterectomy. Heck some of these women might have so little body fat they don't have menses. It's been known to happen.

The only thing I find particularly unfair about being transgendered is the plastic surgery she would have had to receive. I don't see that being an issue unless the genetic women weren't allowed to have it.

I'd be interested to know how the contest would handle the inter-sex. I had a friend growing up who was born gender ambiguous and her parents had to make a decision. Her sister was born the same way. They've always taken hormones and been girls since they were babies. To be honest I have no idea if they are XX, XY or have some sort of abnormality.

Edit: For the record I have no problem with her disqualification. The people who run the contest are allowed to make up their own rules. She lied and broke them.

Edited by ManUtd, 26 March 2012 - 12:03 AM.

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#101 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:58 AM

Wow that's a man? I'm usually good at spotting someone who isn't naturally a woman but I was fooled. Even so, Jenna is hotter than 99% of the female population and 100% of males.

I also understand why they were disqualified and unfortunately that's the rules. We've been through this with the NHL, with the PGA, and so on and so forth, equal is not going to result in equal. Knowing now that this is a man certainly would inhibit thinking of them while waxing my carrot (and yes I'm happily married) over one I thought was born a female.

#102 Stefan

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:47 AM

It's okay to be intolerant towards religious people on the internet, but you'd better stay the heck away from transgenders!!

Being born a male and wanting to be a female never got anyone killed, molested, or tortured.
Entirely different.
Religion is dangerous. Being transgendered isn't.

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#103 Buggernut

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:11 AM

Certainly looks hot. Much more attractive than most women. Who wouldn't want to go out with her?
Couldn't figure out how she got rid of her Adam's apple. Is there surgery for removing an Adam's apple?


If there is, somebody tell this poor (wo?)man of it.

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#104 Buggernut

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:17 AM

Delight your eyes...



#105 Super19

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:24 AM

It's a beauty contest. Her genetics are hardly going to give her much of an advantage beyond height (which isn't necessarily one at all). It's not like they're having strength contests. I suppose being genetically male would result in naturally less body fat but the hormones may have an effect on that. I know they change where it's preferentially stored but I'm not sure what it does for the amount.

Obviously she's not going to menstruate. I don't think many would find it fair to disqualify someone who was born a woman but had a hysterectomy. Heck some of these women might have so little body fat they don't have menses. It's been known to happen.

The only thing I find particularly unfair about being transgendered is the plastic surgery she would have had to receive. I don't see that being an issue unless the genetic women weren't allowed to have it.

I'd be interested to know how the contest would handle the inter-sex. I had a friend growing up who was born gender ambiguous and her parents had to make a decision. Her sister was born the same way. They've always taken hormones and been girls since they were babies. To be honest I have no idea if they are XX, XY or have some sort of abnormality.

Edit: For the record I have no problem with her disqualification. The people who run the contest are allowed to make up their own rules. She lied and broke them.

Cool, solid points you made.

And your edit pretty much puts this in a nutshell.

Delight your eyes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20hTAe5l-w

Wow, I can't even tell the difference...
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#106 Super19

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:42 AM

Being born a male and wanting to be a female never got anyone killed, molested, or tortured.
Entirely different.
Religion is dangerous. Being transgendered isn't.

This isn't about that, this is actually getting the process done, big difference.
What if some poor bloke falls in love with a transgendered, only to find out that (s)he can't bear his children... and what if he is naturally disgusted that she is not a real woman? Imagine the emotional hurt he would get in because of someones deceiving looks..

And you're being intolerant to the people that are not killing, molesting or torturing anyone. You act as if religion preaches those things when it does not, (with the exception of killing which is justified in certain situations - ie;war, but something many don't ever need to worry about) many of us don't even have that in the back of our minds! Intolerance against religion (that does no harm) is nothing new and is a bigger problem than being whacked out by a gender change. If anything, try finding the nutcase Muslims, or Christians, and be intolerant towards THEM.

And comparing transgendered to blacks is out there, transgender is a choice they go through, but blacks or people of any other race don't have a choice into what skin they are born in. Of course, I don't advocate being intolerant towards transgenders unless they give you a reason to be, so just leave them be and I'd treat any I know IRL(or online) kindly (albeit, being grossed out by the nature of their decision)... but I don't support their initial decision as I find it wrong. And definitely don't be intolerant to a man who simply feels like he should be a woman, there's absolutely no harm in that.

Edited by Super19, 26 March 2012 - 07:44 AM.

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#107 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:54 AM

Totally agree. It shouldn't be a contest for those who can afford the best plastic surgeons.

Then again, it's their contest and their own ground rules. If they want to turn it into a contest for the best cut up jobs, they should honestly make it out as just that, and not pretend that it is anything else.


God forbid we sully the integrity of the beauty contest industry!

#108 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:59 AM

This isn't about that, this is actually getting the process done, big difference.
What if some poor bloke falls in love with a transgendered, only to find out that (s)he can't bear his children... and what if he is naturally disgusted that she is not a real woman? Imagine the emotional hurt he would get in because of someones deceiving looks..


And you're being intolerant to the people that are not killing, molesting or torturing anyone. You act as if religion preaches those things when it does not, (with the exception of killing which is justified in certain situations - ie;war, but something many don't ever need to worry about) many of us don't even have that in the back of our minds! Intolerance against religion (that does no harm) is nothing new and is a bigger problem than being whacked out by a gender change. If anything, try finding the nutcase Muslims, or Christians, and be intolerant towards THEM.

And comparing transgendered to blacks is out there, transgender is a choice they go through, but blacks or people of any other race don't have a choice into what skin they are born in. Of course, I don't advocate being intolerant towards transgenders unless they give you a reason to be, so just leave them be and I'd treat any I know IRL(or online) kindly (albeit, being grossed out by the nature of their decision)... but I don't support their initial decision as I find it wrong. And definitely don't be intolerant to a man who simply feels like he should be a woman, there's absolutely no harm in that.


I guess asking "You weren't born a man were you?" isn't as terrible a first date question as I thought!

#109 No_More_Larchide

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:07 AM

Is this thread still going? Holy frack. How much does this impact most of our lives? Yea, I thought so...

This kind of crap just distracts us from the real problems.


How is discrimination not a real problem? Just because it doesnt affect you... Get over yourself.

And if people read all of the posts in this thread, I think the majority agree with the fact that she was kicked out of the contest based on the rules, which she broke.


Where the convo has gotten heated is when people think its right to put limitations on these people's quality of life by making them get tattoo'd, ID'd, etc. Infringing on their rights as humans...

Edited by No_More_Larchide, 26 March 2012 - 08:11 AM.

Larchide is spelled wrong on purpose....

#110 Buggernut

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:08 AM

Gee I don't know, are you a woman?
She got the surgery done, she looks like a woman, she has womanly features, she refers to herself as a woman.
I don't see the correlation. All I see is you having a hard time thinking outside of the box.


"Her" cells contain the male sex chromosomes. Her body is a collection of male cells, despite superficial appearances, and making love to her would be rubbing your body against male tissue. Call a spade a spade.

I prefer to be scientifically consistent than follow this notion you have of "thinking outside the box".

Don't get me wrong. I feel bad for her for having her soul misassigned to the wrong body. Just don't try to pass off the body she is in for the real deal though. I'd hate to imagine what the most crucial parts must look like after the cut up job.

#111 Buggernut

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:10 AM

How is discrimination not a real problem? Just because it doesnt affect you... Get over yourself


About as discriminatory as me being prohibited from using the women's washroom.

#112 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:15 AM

"Her" cells contain the male sex chromosomes. Her body is a collection of male cells, despite superficial appearances, and making love to her would be rubbing your body against male tissue. Call a spade a spade.

I prefer to be scientifically consistent than follow this notion you have of "thinking outside the box".

Don't get me wrong. I feel bad for her for having her soul misassigned to the wrong body. Just don't try to pass off the body she is in for the real deal though. I'd hate to imagine what the most crucial parts must look like after the cut up job.


I can understand that someone's brain chemistry might not match their physical body. It seems odd the best "cure" we can come up with is to amputate their genitals and short circuit their hormone system.

One would think they would focus on the potentially less invasive chemistry problem.

#113 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:17 AM

And comparing transgendered to blacks is out there, transgender is a choice they go through, but blacks or people of any other race don't have a choice into what skin they are born in. Of course, I don't advocate being intolerant towards transgenders unless they give you a reason to be, so just leave them be and I'd treat any I know IRL(or online) kindly (albeit, being grossed out by the nature of their decision)... but I don't support their initial decision as I find it wrong. And definitely don't be intolerant to a man who simply feels like he should be a woman, there's absolutely no harm in that.


I think you have failed to understand what 'transgendered' means S19. Do you think a transgendered person really had any choice as to what brain wiring they were born with? Much as a member of any ethnicity had a choice as to their skin colour etc.? That they made a 'decision' to be a transgendered person? That's exactly the same as a person born black saying they 'chose' to be black.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 26 March 2012 - 08:20 AM.

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#114 ronthecivil

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:22 AM

It's a beauty contest. Her genetics are hardly going to give her much of an advantage beyond height (which isn't necessarily one at all). It's not like they're having strength contests. I suppose being genetically male would result in naturally less body fat but the hormones may have an effect on that. I know they change where it's preferentially stored but I'm not sure what it does for the amount.

Obviously she's not going to menstruate. I don't think many would find it fair to disqualify someone who was born a woman but had a hysterectomy. Heck some of these women might have so little body fat they don't have menses. It's been known to happen.

The only thing I find particularly unfair about being transgendered is the plastic surgery she would have had to receive. I don't see that being an issue unless the genetic women weren't allowed to have it.

I'd be interested to know how the contest would handle the inter-sex. I had a friend growing up who was born gender ambiguous and her parents had to make a decision. Her sister was born the same way. They've always taken hormones and been girls since they were babies. To be honest I have no idea if they are XX, XY or have some sort of abnormality.

Edit: For the record I have no problem with her disqualification. The people who run the contest are allowed to make up their own rules. She lied and broke them.


Um, I thought being intersex was OK in this day and age?

Why the need to perform surgaries and pump them full of hormones when they are still children?

#115 Super19

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:32 AM

I think you have failed to understand what 'transgendered' means S19. Do you think a transgendered person really had any choice as to what brain wiring they were born with? Much as a member of any ethnicity had a choice as to their skin colour etc.? That they made a 'decision' to be a transgendered person? That's exactly the same as a person born black saying they 'chose' to be black.

My apologies for not being clear.

"And definitely don't be intolerant to a man who simply feels like he should be a woman, there's absolutely no harm in that."
I quote that from my earlier post, and it means the same thing as yours above, sans the eloquence.

The difference lies in taking those feelings, and getting the surgery done. I'm not grossed out by the way their brain is strung. No, they don't have a choice in that - we both agree. What do have a choice in is getting the surgery done.
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#116 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

My apologies for not being clear.

"And definitely don't be intolerant to a man who simply feels like he should be a woman, there's absolutely no harm in that."
I quote that from my earlier post, and it means the same thing as yours above, sans the eloquence.

The difference lies in taking those feelings, and getting the surgery done. I'm not grossed out by the way their brain is strung. No, they don't have a choice in that - we both agree. What do have a choice in is getting the surgery done.


So why shouldn't transgendered people be allowed to look on the outside the way they are hardwired on the inside?

How would you like to be completely and utterly female on the inside and have to look at yourself in the mirror and see a penis and testicles every day?

Or, be completely and utterly male on the inside, as you are now, and look in the mirror and see breasts and no penis or testicles?

See what I mean? ;)

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 26 March 2012 - 08:43 AM.

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#117 Super19

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

I guess asking "You weren't born a man were you?" isn't as terrible a first date question as I thought!

See what a slippery slope it is? Not saying it can't work out, just saying how easy people can get hurt.
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#118 Buggernut

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:43 AM



#119 Super19

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

So why shouldn't transgendered people be allowed to look on the outside the way they feel on the inside?

How would you like to be completely and utterly female on the inside and have to look at yourself in the mirror and see a penis and testicles every day?

Or, be completely and utterly male on the inside, as you are now, and look in the mirror and see breasts and no penis or testicles?

See what I mean? ;)

Perhaps it's more restful for their heart that way.



for your edit: Then I'd be chocked - honestly. I'd be contemplating surgery as I think about outlets for any of my other desires I can't act upon, but somehow I'd find a way to deal with it - through the realization of this is what's in store for me. I'd strike it down as another struggle I'd have to live with, and I'll be fine, maybe better than if I went through with it, but if not, I'll be fine, sure.
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#120 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:52 AM

Perhaps it's more restful for their heart that way.



for your edit: Then I'd be chocked - honestly. I'd be contemplating surgery as I think about outlets for any of my other desires I can't act upon, but somehow I'd find a way to deal with it - through the realization of this is what's in store for me. I'd strike it down as another struggle I'd have to live with, and I'll be fine, maybe better than if I went through with it, but if not, I'll be fine, sure.


That's what happens when your beliefs are grounded not in facts and science, but in religion. Any rational human being will make their life more bearable and move on. A Muslim will remain a man in a woman's body, hating his existence and thanking Allah for the magical gift of struggle

This thread really makes me hate people. So much.

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 26 March 2012 - 08:53 AM.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image





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