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Bedrock Of Vaccination Theory Crumbles As Science Reveals Antibodies Not Necessary To Fight Viruses


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#31 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:43 PM

It's too bad Wetcoaster isn't around anymore. It would be nice to get an insiders perspective on what life was like before penicillin.

As for the guy citing evidence from 1800's and early 1900's insert facepalmythinghy.
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#32 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

100%? Please. Keep throwing out incorrect numbers. And vaccines are 95% effective, not 100%. Outbreaks in largely vaccinated populations begin in pockets of non-vaccinated individuals.


Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students -- Illinois

Editorial Note: This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/00000359.htm

Measles Outbreak in 100% Vaccinated Group in India

http://www.vaccines....up-in-india.cfm

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#33 Duodenum

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

It's too bad Wetcoaster isn't around anymore. It would be nice to get an insiders perspective on what life was like before penicillin.

As for the guy citing evidence from 1800's and early 1900's insert facepalmythinghy.

Penicillin is an antibiotic, not a vaccine.

Not much to say about the actual topic, just more conspiracy and big pharma profits and etc.
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#34 Cause=Time

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students -- Illinois

Editorial Note: This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/00000359.htm

Measles Outbreak in 100% Vaccinated Group in India

http://www.vaccines....up-in-india.cfm


Interesting. I stand corrected! I have to say, however, that it doesn't really prove anything. The fact that vaccines are not 100% effective suggests that such outbreaks should be possible. The fact that they remain relatively contained and are very rare is a testament to the effectiveness of vaccination.

Edit: The rest of the explanation is quite interesting - and seems to oppose the point you were trying to make.

Editorial Note: This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation. Previous investigations of measles outbreaks among highly immunized populations have revealed risk factors such as improper storage or handling of vaccine, vaccine administered to children under 1 year of age, use of globulin with vaccine, and use of killed virus vaccine (1-5). However, these risk factors did not adequately explain the occurrence of this outbreak.

The attack rates indicated that the greatest transmission occurred within the same grade as the index patient (Student A). This finding suggested a cohort effect, such as a faulty vaccine lot or particular provider, but none was found. Although detailed vaccine information was not available from providers of vaccine, there were several different providers who served these patients, and patients had not been vaccinated during a common time.

In this outbreak, vaccinated persons were at greater risk of clinical illness if they had close exposure to a measles patient and if 10 or more years had elapsed since their most recent measles vaccinations. This finding is different from those of previous studies, some of which covered shorter intervals between vaccination and exposure to measles. Such studies have uniformly revealed the persistence of vaccine-induced immunity over the period studied (5). A serologic study has shown that up to 15% of persons lose detectable measles specific antibody, measured with standard techniques, within the 16 years following vaccination. Upon revaccination, such individuals typically produce secondary immune responses, implying they are still protected from measles disease (6). Further evidence against waning immunity is that measles incidence is at near record low levels 21 years after vaccine licensure. If loss of immunity with time since vaccination were a major problem, higher incidence rates would be expected. Nevertheless, since this outbreak suggests a potential problem, detailed investigations of other measles outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations should address this issue.

If waning immunity is not a problem, this outbreak suggests that measles transmission can occur within the 2%-10% of expected vaccine failures (5,7). However, transmission was not sustained beyond 36 days in this outbreak, and community spread was principally among unvaccinated preschool children. The infrequent occurrence of measles among highly vaccinated persons suggests that this outbreak may have resulted from chance clustering of otherwise randomly distributed vaccine failures in the community. That measles transmission can occur among vaccine failures makes it even more important to ensure persons are adequately vaccinated. Had there been a substantial number of unvaccinated or inadequately vaccinated students in the high school and the community, transmission in Sangamon County probably would have been sustained.

Edited by Cause=Time, 27 March 2012 - 05:58 PM.

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#35 MadMonk

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students -- Illinois

Editorial Note: This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/00000359.htm

Measles Outbreak in 100% Vaccinated Group in India

http://www.vaccines....up-in-india.cfm

100% documented immunization level only means that they've received a shot, it doesn't mean they've all developed immunity. It is known that some people don't develop an immunity after a shot, or it fades with time.

Edited by MadMonk, 27 March 2012 - 06:00 PM.


#36 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

Penicillin is an antibiotic, not a vaccine.

Not much to say about the actual topic, just more conspiracy and big pharma profits and etc.


Sherlock, that you?
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#37 Duodenum

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:07 PM

Sherlock, that you?

Using something more relevant might be useful.
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#38 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:08 PM

Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students -- Illinois

Editorial Note: This outbreak demonstrates that transmission of measles can occur within a school population with a documented immunization level of 100%. This level was validated during the outbreak investigation



The protocol for vaccinations changed in 1989 in the US after the outbreak you cite here. The measles outbreak occurred over a month in December '83 and January '04. Do you have anything anti-measles vaccine to cite AFTER the situation was corrected?

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine

The sustained decline of measles in the United States has been associated with a shift in occurrence from children to infants and young adults. During 1990-1994, 47% of reported cases occurred in persons ages greater than or equal to 10 years, compared with only 10% during 1960-1964 (CDC, unpublished data; 17). During the 1980s, outbreaks of measles occurred among school-age children in schools with measles-vaccination levels of greater than or equal to 98% (18). Primary vaccine failure was considered the principal contributing factor in these outbreaks. As a result, beginning in 1989, a two-dose measles-vaccination schedule for students in primary schools, secondary schools, and colleges and universities was recommended (18-20). This two-dose vaccination schedule provides protection to greater than or equal to 98% of persons vaccinated. Administration of a second dose of MMR at entry to elementary school (i.e., at ages 4-6 years) or junior high or middle school (i.e., at ages 11-12 years) is recomImmunization of Adolescents Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and the American Medical Association mended (21-23). State policies for implementing the two-dose strategy have varied; some states require the second dose for entry into primary school, and others require it for entry into middle school. Because the recommendation for a second dose of MMR was made in 1989, many children born before 1985 (and some children born after 1985, depending on local policy) may not have received the second vaccine dose. The routine visit to providers at ages 11-12 years affords an opportunity to administer a second dose of MMR to adolescents who have not received two doses of MMR at greater than or equal to 12 months of age.


http://www.vaccinati...les_booster.htm

It has also been shown/proven that not everyone develops immunity after receiving the first dose of a vaccine. Also, if people do not receive their booster shots when they should, this will also affect their ability to develop immunity.

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 27 March 2012 - 06:15 PM.

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#39 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:13 PM

You're trying to start an argument with someone who says the WTC was demo'd and the Apollo 11 landing was a hoax. Best to just let this one slide into obscurity.


Many people refuse to believe the official story espoused by the US government and repeated by the mass media regarding 9/11 (two entities that have a history of lying, deceiving and covering up information).

What's your point exactly? Just trying to call me a "whacko"? So why not just call me a 'nutjob' and slide back into obscurity yourself. Seems to work well (for you anyways).

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#40 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:13 PM

Using something more relevant might be useful.


It was more time specific
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#41 Duodenum

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:17 PM

It was more time specific

Yes, I got that from the Sherlock jab ;)
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#42 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:19 PM

Canadian Measles Outbreak Hits the Vaccinated. Excuses Abound.

Canada has been experiencing a large measles outbreak. More than half of the cases may be among people who have been “fully” vaccinated—that is, they had received all the mandated doses.

Measles is supposed to be a disease of the past, one that’s been wiped out by vaccines. What went wrong?


All sorts of excuses are being made, from blaming the unvaccinated to blaming immigrants to suggesting that the vaccine schedule isn’t aggressive enough to wondering if a pool of “susceptibles” has been building up over the years.

Reasons/Excuses Given in Studies Reported at Conference

Studies of the Canadian measles outbreak were presented at a meeting of the Infectious Diseases Society of America this month. Dr. Gaston De Serres, an infectious diseases expert with the Quebec’s public health agency, is the lead author of one the studies, “Lower than expected vaccine efficacy in two-dose recipients and higher risk with younger age at first dose.” He states that the real question is, “How could it have happened?” He was referring to 52 of 98 measles cases in teens who’d been fully vaccinated. De Serres believes that timing of the measles vaccination is the issue.

Measles vaccinations are not given until a child is at least a year old. It’s believed that this is because the mother’s measles antibodies kill the vaccine viruses before babies can develop new antibodies of their own. So, De Serres suggests giving the vaccine on a different schedule, or possibly adding a third jab.

De Serres doesn’t explain why it has taken so many years since the measles vaccine was implemented for this outbreak to occur. Nor does he explain why so many who have had the second vaccination a few years later are also coming down with measles.

Another study, by Philippe Belanger, Ministère de la santé et des services sociaux du Québec, Montréal, is titled “Americas since 2000: Quebec ongoing epidemic.” Belanger stated:

While this still ongoing outbreak feeds largely on unvaccinated individuals, the high proportion of cases who received two doses raises concerns on vaccine effectiveness. However, the take-home message is still to get vaccinated.

Belanger overstates the facts. In some areas, as demonstrated by De Serres’ study, more of the vaccinated have come down with measles.

Exactly why getting vaccinated is the “take-home message” doesn’t appear to be explained. As is so often the case in vaccination issues, the need for vaccines is taken on faith. It’s beyond question. In other words, no matter what new information is learned—no matter how badly vaccines fail to prevent disease—the line is always the same:

Get vaccinated. Get vaccinated. GET VACCINATED!

Thou shalt not question thy Lord Doctor’s command. No matter what evidence is presented. No matter what logic says. No matter what you’ve experienced. Do not question the official vaccination line.

Examining the “Protect Babies Too Young for Vaccine” Excuse

One of the most common excuses for forcing people to be vaccinated is to protect babies presumed too young to receive vaccinations. It makes no sense. It’s believed that they don’t need to be vaccinated because they already have the antibodies from their mothers. If that’s true—and we have every reason to believe that it is—then they don’t need to be protected from the unvaccinated.

Of course, the argument that people in other countries are the cause of measles outbreaks is also absurd. If the vaccines work, then the vaccinated should have no concerns.

Questioning Vaccinations Is Simply Not Allowed

De Serres and Belanger both begin and end from the same point: Vaccinations must be the solution. It matters not whether the facts fit the reality. They must be forced into the vaccines-are-the-solution theory. Because the US outbreak has been, per capita, far smaller than the Canadian one, De Serres suggests that the US vaccination schedule may be better than the Canadian one. However, he won’t entertain any concept that suggests a solution without vaccines.

However, one must ask why, if the vaccine is truly effective, it matters exactly when the doses are given, if they’re given after the age that’s believed effective and people coming down with measles have received them. Does the vaccine work or doesn’t it? And if people who’ve been vaccinated for measles, taking all the risks inherent in vaccinations, can’t expect to be protected from the disease, why should they have the vaccine? And finally, why aren’t these experts weighing the very real risks of vaccination against any benefits that they believe exist?

But then, to ask those questions violates a basic tenet of conventional medicine:

Get vaccinated. Get vaccinated. GET VACCINATED!

Anything that questions the vaccination doctrine is equivalent to questioning the foundation of conventional medicine.

http://gaia-health.c...excuses-abound/

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#43 JamesTW

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:20 PM

Instead of citing nutjob propoganda try citing a peer reviewed source. Not that you even seem to know what that is. Vaccination is heavily supported by every Doctor in the medical profession. Yes some vaccinations are more dangerous than others such as yellow fever as it requires a live vaccination. Most vaccinations (measles, mumps, rhubella etc.) use a dead virus which carries virtually zero risk. I can't remember his name there was one Doctor who tried to claim a certain vaccination caused Autism, once his report was subject to peer review it turned out he had specifically targetted children who showed signs of Autism spectrum disorder. The reason he did this he owned stock in a competing company that also made a vaccination for the same illness.

#44 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:21 PM

You are a murderer and so is every anti vaccination kook.


I am a murderer for posting a scientific article? Please do explain.

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#45 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

Instead of citing nutjob propoganda try citing a peer reviewed source. Not that you even seem to know what that is. Vaccination is heavily supported by every Doctor in the medical profession. Yes some vaccinations are more dangerous than others such as yellow fever as it requires a live vaccination. Most vaccinations (measles, mumps, rhubella etc.) use a dead virus which carries virtually zero risk. I can't remember his name there was one Doctor who tried to claim a certain vaccination caused Autism, once his report was subject to peer review it turned out he had specifically targetted children who showed signs of Autism spectrum disorder. The reason he did this he owned stock in a competing company that also made a vaccination for the same illness.


Can you please clarify the specific "nutjob propaganda' you are referring to?

This has been published by Natural News, Medical News Today, Science Daily and it is from a Harvard Dr.'s study based on research published in the Immunity journal from Cell Press.

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#46 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

Instead of citing nutjob propoganda try citing a peer reviewed source. Not that you even seem to know what that is. Vaccination is heavily supported by every Doctor in the medical profession. Yes some vaccinations are more dangerous than others such as yellow fever as it requires a live vaccination. Most vaccinations (measles, mumps, rhubella etc.) use a dead virus which carries virtually zero risk. I can't remember his name there was one Doctor who tried to claim a certain vaccination caused Autism, once his report was subject to peer review it turned out he had specifically targetted children who showed signs of Autism spectrum disorder. The reason he did this he owned stock in a competing company that also made a vaccination for the same illness.


Thank you

"Sursumredditio" non usquam in hac mea loquantur!



Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.....



#47 woot

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

I am a murderer for posting a scientific article? Please do explain.


Don't call that a scientific article. If have a link to the actual paper, then we can talk.

#48 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:26 PM

Darthninja you are a murderer and a fool. I don't care if I get suspended for this but you pose an immediate threat to the lives of the uneducated who may believe what you have to say.


I'm actually not saying anything of myself. You on the other hand...

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#49 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:27 PM

The doctors clearly aren't, but the same cannot be said about the people who mis-interpret the research.

The research itself never tested the effect of vaccine, and never once suggested that vaccines are not effective, and the results doesn't say anything about efficiency of vaccine. All the research says is that in the absence of antibodies, whether naturally produced or induced by vaccines, mice are able to survive one type of viral infection.

Does the article says that the innate immune system is more effective than the adaptive/antibody system? No.
Does the article says that antibodies are useless? No.
Does the article say that the innate immune system is sufficient for ALL infections? No.
Does the article say this research applies to human? No.
The list can go on...


Bears repeating.

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My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#50 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

Thank you


What BB, no 'tin foil hat' reference? I am uninoculatedly disappointed.

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#51 Stefan

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Funny humans trying to play God.

We've survived this long without any need of preventative "medicine". it's sad that people would have been scared into believing it was now necessary. Stop injecting yourself and your children. Do not trust the Government.

Humans trying to play god?
The hell are you talking about?
Humans created god. It's funny when people think God saves people, when it's actually the humans who cured their cancer / infection / etc. etc.
Damn!!!

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(1 Peter 2:18)

Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.



 

#52 Coda

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:34 PM

A very misleading article.

#53 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:36 PM

Don't call that a scientific article. If have a link to the actual paper, then we can talk.


The actualy paper costs money but I was able to find this:

B Cell Maintenance of Subcapsular Sinus Macrophages Protects against a Fatal Viral Infection Independent of Adaptive Immunity:

http://www.cell.com/...00057-X#Summary

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#54 MadMonk

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:46 PM

Can you please clarify the specific "nutjob propaganda' you are referring to?

This has been published by Natural News, Medical News Today, Science Daily and it is from a Harvard Dr.'s study based on research published in the Immunity journal from Cell Press.


Curiously, the word "vaccine" is not once mentioned in Medical News Today and the science daily. In the actual research article, the "vaccination" and "vaccine" came up only twice in the article, both times in the following passage:

Although VSV infections are typically self-limiting in mammals, rabies virus, a close relative, is responsible for >55,000 human deaths every year. Neutralizing antibodies are also believed to be required to survive rabies infections, as shown by the fact that passive antibody transfer and active vaccination to elicit humoral immunity are standard of care. Although neutralizing antibodies are undoubtedly effective prophylaxis against rhab- doviruses, our findings indicate that antibody therapy may be insufficient to treat existing rhabdoviral infections in nonimmune subjects, at least in the case of VSV. It is unclear whether this caveat applies also to rabies virus infection, but failures of both passive and active vaccination after exposure to rabies are known to occur (Anonymous, 1988).


How is it possible, that for an article that supposedly crushes the bedrock of vaccination theory, only mentiones vaccination once? and even when it does, it is mentioned when the authors admit that a caveat of their research is that it may not apply to Rabies?


Edit: Can't embed the link to the research article. Here's the link
http://labs.idi.harvard.edu/vonandrian/Pages/_Moseman%20Immunity%20online%20'12.pdf

Edited by MadMonk, 27 March 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#55 Busty Ruffles

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:50 PM

If you and others don't get immunised people who are on immune suppresive therapy for organ transplants will unknowingly face the risk of contracting a disease you carry that could kill them yes you are a murderer.

Then anyone who breathes peanut butter breath on someone who is allergic is potentially a murderer as well. Get over yourself.

Edited by Busty Ruffles, 27 March 2012 - 06:50 PM.


#56 Coda

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:50 PM

My Grandfather suddenly developed Polio in 1953. Despite being placed in an iron lung, he died within weeks. My very young Father and his brother and sister were some of the first in Canada to be issued with the groundbreaking Salk Vaccine soon afterwards.

As this table shows, the vaccine was very effective in wiping out Polio in Canada. Now it is almost unknown in our country.

http://www.healthher...agueTable3.html

#57 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:51 PM

The doctors clearly aren't, but the same cannot be said about the people who mis-interpret the research.

The research itself never tested the effect of vaccine, and never once suggested that vaccines are not effective, and the results doesn't say anything about efficiency of vaccine. All the research says is that in the absence of antibodies, whether naturally produced or induced by vaccines, mice are able to survive one type of viral infection.


I don't think it is about the efficiency of vaccinations and the article also does not make a blanket statement (in fact the article suggests that further research is needed for other diseases, in particular those that effect the central nervous system). I believe what the research is saying is that for some viruses, vaccinations are not a necessity as opposed to what has commonly been believed.

Does the article says that the innate immune system is more effective than the adaptive/antibody system? No.
Does the article says that antibodies are useless? No.
Does the article say that the innate immune system is sufficient for ALL infections? No.
Does the article say this research applies to human? No.
The list can go on...


The article is stating what the researchers have found and been led to believe as a result of their findings.

As the Harvard Dr. stated:

Our findings contradict the current view that antibodies are absolutely required to survive infection with viruses like VSV...


When "antibody" is stated, I can only assume he implies both natural and/or induced.

He also of course stated:

It will be important to further dissect the role of antibodies and interferons in immunity against similar viruses that attack the nervous system, such as rabies, West Nile virus, and Encephalitis.


So yes, in reality, the doctors are suggesting that their research has led them to believe that vaccination (or 'antibodies') for certain viruses are not required.

Edited by DarthNinja_S19Blade, 27 March 2012 - 06:53 PM.

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#58 Busty Ruffles

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:56 PM

I think the bottom line is that doctors aren't infallible, and seem to be more governed by what will pad their wallets than what is good for their patients. Call me a murderer, but I didn't vaccinate my children until they were ready to go to school. I will not give them the varicella vaccine or the vaccine for HPV.

I think vaccines have helped eradicate some diseases, but I also think people blindly trust money-driven doctors and pharmacists who churn out snake oil for the masses. There are many doctor/pharmacist -created health issues in our society, and while I don't believe in all vaccinations I am quite happy to have escaped the age of polio and smallpox.

Who knows how our bodies would react to these diseases now? We have so much more medical knowledge than we did even in the 1950's. We know more about nutrition and what the body needs to maintain balance. I don't see eradicating vaccines as the answer, but perhaps more people need to question exactly why their doctors are recommending certain courses of action.


Thanks for the thought-provoking read, DarthNinja.

Edited by Busty Ruffles, 27 March 2012 - 06:58 PM.


#59 DarthNinja

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:23 PM

I think the bottom line is that doctors aren't infallible, and seem to be more governed by what will pad their wallets than what is good for their patients. Call me a murderer, but I didn't vaccinate my children until they were ready to go to school. I will not give them the varicella vaccine or the vaccine for HPV.

I think vaccines have helped eradicate some diseases, but I also think people blindly trust money-driven doctors and pharmacists who churn out snake oil for the masses. There are many doctor/pharmacist -created health issues in our society, and while I don't believe in all vaccinations I am quite happy to have escaped the age of polio and smallpox.

Who knows how our bodies would react to these diseases now? We have so much more medical knowledge than we did even in the 1950's. We know more about nutrition and what the body needs to maintain balance. I don't see eradicating vaccines as the answer, but perhaps more people need to question exactly why their doctors are recommending certain courses of action.


Thanks for the thought-provoking read, DarthNinja.


No probs and right back at cha BR.

But I feel I should warn you though, that I am 'a murderer'... :emot-parrot: :ph34r:

**RETIRED...**

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#60 Armada

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:28 PM

lol at people who got "Swine" flu shots.

Such a ridiculous reason for everyone to panic back then. It killed no more people than the normal flu in that time period.
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