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Mason Raymons Value

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#1 janisahockeynut

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

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Everytime, I read a Post talking about Mason, I usually see way too much negitivity. I read things like, he can't score, he always falls down, he's not worth a 2nd round draft pick, etc.

I have to say that I wonder exactly what those posters are thinking? Mason, is one of the fastest skaters in the league ( certainly in the top 10 to 15% )

He kills penalties, draws more penalties, and forces other coaches to put Dmen on the ice when he is out there, that can stay with him. Which takes them away from other Canuck players, who then get the #5 and #6 Dmen

He has played on every line , (1, 2, 3, 4) mostly because he has the potential ability to score 25 goals a season, has defensive disipline, and NHL abilities ( re his skating)

Aside from Mason's abilities, most posters do not mention that the average draftee that is drafted from # 31 on, and really #12 on, have a slim chance of playing in the NHL at all, and that of the ones that do, most have a short NHL career, with even less having a long career or being a top end forward.

I don't know if Mike Gillis will resign him or trade him, but I can assure you, he has value. Maybe next time Masons on the ice, remember that he has won games for us this year ( At least one on the shoot out, where he scored on the spin-norama, and one where we won 3-2 a while ago, where he had a goal and an assist.)

Maybe we are just spoiled and should get off his butt! There are lots of possitives with him. And we could have the Maple laughs!

( Yes, I realize I missed the "d" in Raymond......I am bad!)

Edited by zcaptain, 29 March 2012 - 03:32 PM.

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#2 suolucidir

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:36 PM

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Personally I think his spinorama is shoddy and should be disallowed. Some players can pull it off, but he stops. It just bothers me.

That aside, his season has been pretty strange. He looked pretty good at first, then stagnated. Recently he's started skating hard and doing all the right things, but that could change. His value is going to depend A LOT on what happens in the playoffs. While extending him isn't out of the question, I do think it would be best for him if he were traded.
as of right now, though, I don't think anyone who follows the games would be on his case presently. He's resumed doing the things that we all scream at him to do.
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View Postbahkwan, on 03 December 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.

#3 SixtyEight

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

nothing, unless combined with ballard and a 1st, that = crosby

Edited by SixtyEight, 29 March 2012 - 03:37 PM.

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#4 Toni Zamboni

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:40 PM

( Yes, I realize I missed the "d" in Raymond......I am bad!)


you can correct the title of your thread if you wish.

Edited by Toni Zamboni, 29 March 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#5 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

Raymond's season has been up and down. Started up, then down, then way way down until resulting in a healthy scratch. Now it appears he is on his way up again.

Like one poster said, his value in the offseason will depend on how he plays in the playoffs.
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#6 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:50 PM

Middling play if it continues I doubt we'd get a 3rd rounder for him. But to be honest, I'd rather take a risk of having someone from the AHL take his spot the way he's been playing.

Long term he just doesn't fit. Too weak on the boards, too easy to knock off the puck. He's not as fast as he was before his injury.
If he did some massive workouts in the offseason to bulk up his core and lower body strength. Learn from Dave Gagner, or perhaps train with Kesler to learn how to protect the puck better, and make quicker decisions with the puck, then he could improve himself.
Maybe he needs to change to a different skate to improve stability?

His flaws are correctable, just does he want to work on it?
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#7 elvis15

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

Raymond does have speed, and can play well defensively, but if he's not producing offence he's not as useful to us (or anyone for that matter). He doesn't have a physical game to fall back on, and he actually doesn't draw many penalties since he's so easy to knock down with a regular check.

Looking at his numbers at BehindTheNet.ca, he's 12th out of 23 players on the Canucks in penalties drawn per 60 minutes. Considering his speed and skill, he should draw much more, especially if he's creating takeaways in the defensive zone and looking to use his speed to break out. He doesn't take many penalties at least.

He does get a fair amount of offensive starts, 5th on the team, so he's put in easier situations that others yet still hasn't produced much. That's typical of his play before the back injury as well, so I'm not just slagging him for this season's numbers.

I'm not saying it'd be better to dump him for nothing, but he could certainly stand to improve if he wants to stay on a Stanley Cup contending team.
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#8 georgeparrosesmustache

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:01 PM

Oh god who cares
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#9 raymond5

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:03 PM

Mason raymond is a good player and whenever I also read anything about him its usually negative. He has potentelle! And he's showing it!
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#10 D-Money

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:05 PM

He nees to be qualified at over 2.5 million. So, if he follows up these last few games with more of his trademark inconsistency...



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Edited by D-Money, 29 March 2012 - 04:05 PM.

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#11 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

Raymond does have speed, and can play well defensively, but if he's not producing offence he's not as useful to us (or anyone for that matter). He doesn't have a physical game to fall back on, and he actually doesn't draw many penalties since he's so easy to knock down with a regular check.

Looking at his numbers at BehindTheNet.ca, he's 12th out of 23 players on the Canucks in penalties drawn per 60 minutes. Considering his speed and skill, he should draw much more, especially if he's creating takeaways in the defensive zone and looking to use his speed to break out. He doesn't take many penalties at least.

He does get a fair amount of offensive starts, 5th on the team, so he's put in easier situations that others yet still hasn't produced much. That's typical of his play before the back injury as well, so I'm not just slagging him for this season's numbers.

I'm not saying it'd be better to dump him for nothing, but he could certainly stand to improve if he wants to stay on a Stanley Cup contending team.


Pretty much. Raymond isn't good enough and especially not consistent enough for the top-6 on a contender or strong enough to be a bottom-6 player on a contender. His only value is with a team that needs to a speed element or has a horrible PK (Tampa Bay, CBJ, etc).

I hate when people say 'Raymond is a good defensive player'. It simply isn't true. He is hardly trusted when there's an important defensive draw, he isn't strong enough to knock somebody off the puck and he loses almost every puck battle along the boards. His positioning is fine, but if you can't do much with it.. well, then what is the point?

GOOD PKer DOES NOT = GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAYER 5-ON-5.

The Canucks' PK was doing fine without him when he was hurt and now with Pahlsson the Canucks have many options for the PK and don't really need Raymond.

His value is maybe a late 2nd or a mid 3rd and a 4th on a team that is not a contender and hopes that Raymond can become a more consistent offensive threat and can help their PK. More likely he'll get packaged with Schneider in a bigger trade.

Plus his playoff stats reek, because when the checking gets tight his perimeter moves become useless. Unless he turns a corner this post-season his value is pretty low.
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#12 RunningWild

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:13 PM

I agree he has value, but it's not with this team. I feel bad for him, and he appears to be a great teammate.

But he has not drawn a significant amount of penalties this yr. In fact, he's not even in the top 10 in terms of penalties drawn on this team.

He does kill penalties, but not in a significant role - he can easily be replaced on the PK. Hansen/Malhotra, or Hansen/Pahlsson play against he oppositions top PP unit. Raymond avg's a small amount of PK time per game, behind Manny, Pahlsson, Lappy, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Higgins all have more avg PK TOI.

Raymond does have 2 game winning this yr (1 ahead of Kesler), but Raymond only has 10 goals this year, and only 15 last year despite getting top 6 mins all season. He has done nothing in the playoffs for this team, ever. With the way this team is constructed, he is a top 6 player or bust. And he is not a top 6 player player on this team, so .....

He has to be traded this summer IMO.

Edited by RunningWild, 29 March 2012 - 04:13 PM.

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#13 suolucidir

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:16 PM

Raymond's defensive ability was actually a huge part of his game prior to this season. It might not have been noticed due to the amount of time spend either in the offensive or neutral zones.
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View Postbahkwan, on 03 December 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.

#14 Dogbyte

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Pretty much. Raymond isn't good enough and especially not consistent enough for the top-6 on a contender or strong enough to be a bottom-6 player on a contender. His only value is with a team that needs to a speed element or has a horrible PK (Tampa Bay, CBJ, etc).

I hate when people say 'Raymond is a good defensive player'. It simply isn't true. He is hardly trusted when there's an important defensive draw, he isn't strong enough to knock somebody off the puck and he loses almost every puck battle along the boards. His positioning is fine, but if you can't do much with it.. well, then what is the point?

GOOD PKer DOES NOT = GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAYER 5-ON-5.

The Canucks' PK was doing fine without him when he was hurt and now with Pahlsson the Canucks have many options for the PK and don't really need Raymond.

His value is maybe a late 2nd or a mid 3rd and a 4th on a team that is not a contender and hopes that Raymond can become a more consistent offensive threat and can help their PK. More likely he'll get packaged with Schneider in a bigger trade.

Plus his playoff stats reek, because when the checking gets tight his perimeter moves become useless. Unless he turns a corner this post-season his value is pretty low.

He's terrific 5 v 5 defensively. I'm not sure which Raymond you're watching. I will agree that he may not be best suited in a dead puck situation with a faceoff in our end due to his size but that's just a tiny piece or being defensive, especially for a winger.
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#15 Grape

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:18 PM

Raymond will be a very important part of our stanley cup run
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#16 needtogetswole

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:24 PM

nothing, unless combined with ballard and a 1st, that = crosby


that's getting really old.

I don't see us keeping raymond around - i think we just let him go
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#17 janisahockeynut

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:29 PM

I am not disputing your comments, and I stand corrected about the penalties drawn ( I was going from recall, and obviously that wasn't working), but we are a top team and we are deep. My point was merely to point out he has value. There are 2 things you can't teach a hockey player, 1 is size and the other speed/quickness....he has one.

My point is he is talented enough to score 25 goals, in the NHL! We could find a team that needs that (IMO) Phone BB! LOL

As for the qualifying offer........good point! But trade him early, yes maybe in a package.
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#18 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:34 PM

He's terrific 5 v 5 defensively. I'm not sure which Raymond you're watching. I will agree that he may not be best suited in a dead puck situation with a faceoff in our end due to his size but that's just a tiny piece or being defensive, especially for a winger.


Nor can he win any battles along the boards in the defensive zone, nor does he block many shots (fewest on the team), he doesn't hit, nor knock people off the puck, his corsi is relatively low and he is put in the easiest of situations (not many defensive zone starts especially against good opponents, not a very high QoC).

If I were a coach he definitely wouldn't be one of my favourites to have playing in the defensive zone.. but each to their own.
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#19 Gike Millis

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:41 PM

Get off his back. His trade value < his value to us.

You cant underestimate his ability to chip shots in from the red line.


Edited by Gike Millis, 29 March 2012 - 04:42 PM.

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#20 ButterBean

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:10 PM

I don't know what it is but most of the time he's just not playing smart when he's on the ice. Everyone mentions his speed and defensive capabilities but those are the qualities that make for good 3rd and 4th liners. He has the speed but he rarely drives the net. It's a pain to watch him skate circles, throw a weak wrist shot on net, or fall down and give away the puck.

When he's using his speed effectively and using vision to make a pass to his linemates he's good. Too bad he only does it like 5% of the time.
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#21 SixtyEight

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:22 PM

that's getting really old.

I don't see us keeping raymond around - i think we just let him go


yeah... like these threads
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#22 Guest_The Brown Burrows_*

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:37 PM

Canucks Value: 1.25 - 1.75 million / 1 year contract.

NHL Value: 2.75 - 3.5 million / Multi-year contract.

Really, this is what he is worth. He needs a change of scenery.
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#23 Luongosnumber1fan<3

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:51 PM

All I have to say is he has tons of value to the team! i agree with all the posotive comments and none of the negtive! :canucks:
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#24 thehamburglar

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 06:28 PM

As someone right above me posted; he has much more value to other teams. Give him to Edmonton, I'm sure he'd start ripping it up.
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#25 oldnews

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:04 PM

Raymond's cap hit is the NHL average - is he an average or better player? I think so.
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#26 cocosdad

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:08 PM

I do not see a fit for Mayray on this team next season. We have several players in Chicago with the same skills - good wheels, lack of finish - at way less money. My only issue is that once he is gone, who are the negative nitwits on this board going to hack on next. Maybe get back on Kesler.
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#27 dank.

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:16 PM

Raymond's cap hit is the NHL average - is he an average or better player? I think so.


Are we an average team / organization? I don't think so.

Mason will be let go next season.
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#28 shazzam

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:16 PM

Cogliano got a second rounder... Raymond could fetch a second rounder if not an early 3rd
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#29 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

Pretty much. Raymond isn't good enough and especially not consistent enough for the top-6 on a contender or strong enough to be a bottom-6 player on a contender. His only value is with a team that needs to a speed element or has a horrible PK (Tampa Bay, CBJ, etc).

I hate when people say 'Raymond is a good defensive player'. It simply isn't true. He is hardly trusted when there's an important defensive draw, he isn't strong enough to knock somebody off the puck and he loses almost every puck battle along the boards. His positioning is fine, but if you can't do much with it.. well, then what is the point?

GOOD PKer DOES NOT = GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAYER 5-ON-5.

The Canucks' PK was doing fine without him when he was hurt and now with Pahlsson the Canucks have many options for the PK and don't really need Raymond.

His value is maybe a late 2nd or a mid 3rd and a 4th on a team that is not a contender and hopes that Raymond can become a more consistent offensive threat and can help their PK. More likely he'll get packaged with Schneider in a bigger trade.

Plus his playoff stats reek, because when the checking gets tight his perimeter moves become useless. Unless he turns a corner this post-season his value is pretty low.


He's a +9 while scoring very little and playing on the third line with a defensively crappy Cody Hodgson (for the majority of the season). If you watch the guy, you will see that he has a very active stick on defense and makes key stick checks to prevent goals.

I'd rather have that and balance out lack of scoring than the opposite.

Edited by LordofBrussels, 29 March 2012 - 07:18 PM.

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#30 Puckmonk3y

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

Bag of pucks and the cost of the bus ride to the new city.
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