Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Sulzer Has More Points Than Kassian And Gragnani Put Together


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
109 replies to this topic

#91 Shift-4

Shift-4

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,452 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 06

Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

because Mike Gillis totally had the next 20 games in mind when he made that trade :rolleyes:
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#92 Vancanwincup

Vancanwincup

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 541 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 12

Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

Indeed. If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Kassian needs more time to develop. Therefore, send him down to the minors. Give the ice time to someone more proven and equally big, like Bitz.

It's funny. When Kassian first got here, people in the game day threads (GDT) were all chanting how he would be kicking ass and scoring hat tricks. Over time, people's expectations dropped a little lower, and just expects him to kick ass. Over time, that expectation was also removed, and simply wanted him to be "tough." Well, now that his intimidation factor has been exposed, people just expects him to be better a few years down the road.

Could not disagree more, Kassian is developing fine where he is and very few agree he needs to develope in the minors only the people who are impatient would think so.

#93 js604

js604

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Joined: 14-June 11

Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:42 PM

Could not disagree more, Kassian is developing fine where he is and very few agree he needs to develope in the minors only the people who are impatient would think so.


Your statement is logically flawed, because it is the other way around. People who are patient would rather see him develop in the minors before stepping up to the big boys' playground, while the impatient ones want him here now, and do things he is not yet capable of.

Edited by js604, 04 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.


#94 Vancanwincup

Vancanwincup

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 541 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 12

Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:52 PM

Your statement is logically flawed, because it is the other way around. People who are patient who rather see him develop in the minors before stepping up to the big boys playground, while the impatient ones want him here now.


He is already playing with the big boys, so the impatient ones like yourself who think he's not playing the way you want, are being impatient with him and want him set down. Not too hard to understand that you need to be patient with young players playing in the NHL who have already spent time in the minors and done outstanding there. It a step back not forward and only the impatient would see different.

Edited by Vancanwincup, 04 April 2012 - 03:48 PM.


#95 Nashi

Nashi

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,900 posts
  • Joined: 17-March 09

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:00 PM

I love how people compare players like this. :bigblush:

canucks141.png


#96 Dogbyte

Dogbyte

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,370 posts
  • Joined: 31-March 07

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

Now that Gragnani has been exposed as a Chicago D man for next year we also have no Hodgson scoring depth,no Sulzer d depth and no effective power forward depth for the playoffs.

The addition of Pahlsson mitigates the loss of Hodgson but the loss of Sulzer for Gragnani and the innefectiveness of Kassian makes this trade a loss for this year's playoff run.

You're quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Why, everything you say is completely stupid and is such CDC basics that even a 5 year old should get it.

For the record, I love him but Cody is weak and would have got pushed around on the third line by the huge Western Conference teams Probably very ineffective as a playoff performer in the West this year if he would have played.

Also, Sulzer would have never seen the ice, and different players excel in different situations, he was not going to get a shot here as th 9th dman.

And you have yet to see Kassian play in the playoffs but yet you have deemed him unsuccesful already.

Also, I bet MG resigns Gragnani after we went out of our way to get him in all these games this year.

You seem like a person who is able to gleen things by reading of the web but actually haven't watched or know a single thing about hockey.

:lol: keep on rocking your free world nuck nitzian one

Edited by Dogbyte, 04 April 2012 - 03:08 PM.

Canuckslogo160x160.jpg


#97 Millerdraft

Millerdraft

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,509 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 04

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:29 PM

Are you aware that the Canucks aren't a developing team like the Oilers are? Kassian would be a much better fit on the Oil since his development and the team's development are both on the same time line. Everyone who watches hockey a lot knows Hodgson is farther along the development process. And Kassian, while tougher than Hodgson, makes no discernible difference in the team toughness level.


No, but you know what he's better at than Hodgson? Making an impact, in a 4th liner's way of making an impact, by keeping cycles going and tiring out opposition defencemen down low. Remember way back when, that oh so long time ago, the Canucks made the Stanley Cup Finals and they couldn't even play 21-year old Cody Hodgson in a 4th line role because he was too slow?

Guess what? Kassian is a better player right now than Hodgson was last year (especially in a 4th line role) and we still made it to game #7 in spite of a vastly different Manny Malhotra than the regular season Manny. Last year we had Lapierre in beast mode anchoring our 3rd line. This year we have Lapierre entering beast mode and once the playoffs roll around he'll be anchoring our 4th line with the arguably worthier 2007 Conn Smythe candidate Samme Pahlsson anchoring our 3rd line. Incidentally, Pahlsson is one of the league's most fatiguing players to play against. Our 3rd & 4th lines are going to tire the heck out of the opposition's top 6 forwards and bottom four D.

Hodgson was never going to supplant Kesler and CoHo proved he sucked on Kesler's wing during his stint there when Booth went down to injury in December. Pahlsson is a MUCH better fit as our 3rd line centre between Higgins & Hansen than Cody between Higgins & Hansen (and that trio's numbers as of late just further prove it). Honestly now, would you have zero qualms about playing Higgins-Hodgson-Hansen head-to-head against Marleau-Thornton-______ or Clowe-Couture-Havlat? Because I have zero qualms putting Higgins-Pahlsson-Hansen out there against San Jose's big lines.

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#98 Millerdraft

Millerdraft

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,509 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 04

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

Sulzer & Hodgson: Traded to a much weaker team and immediately get slotted in much higher on the depth chart, receive much more ice-time including PP time. Sulzer produces better, Hodgson produces the same.

Kassian: Slotted into a defined role where no offense is expected of him, receives 4th line ice-time.

CDC: OMFG WE GOT HOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


CDC: Where logic, reason & context get tossed to the side in the favour of boisterous knee jerk panic.

So you're saying we don't need anything for the future? Every team is a developing team. Kassian is for the future. Pahlsson was acquired for the now.

We already know Hodgson had no place to move for years to come with Henrik and Kesler ahead of him. We also know he was already making demands for more ice time. Bottom line: Hodgson wasn't going to stick around. Kassian on the other hand can develop from the fourth line forward on wing. There is a spot for him for years to come if he fulfills his potential.

Kassian has almost double the hits in almost half the games in comparison to Hodgson. He also has 3 fighting majors to Cody's zip. While getting less ice time. I'd say that's a discernible difference in the toughness department. He wasn't brought in to be a goon. He was brought in to play physical and develop into a power forward. That's not going to happen in a matter of weeks.


This trade wasn't about now as much as the Pahlsson trade was. Kassian is a 21 year old kid. It will be years before the trade can be reasonably judged.

^
The voice of reason.

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#99 suolucidir

suolucidir

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,221 posts
  • Joined: 04-December 05

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

Sometimes it's painful being a fan of this team. The team itself is great. Awesome. A blast. The some of the fans, and the way the media preys on them... just... ugh.
PSN: CloakOfSkill

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#100 NUCKS4CUP 28

NUCKS4CUP 28

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,349 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 08

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

Points =/= value to a team.
Posted Image

Believe in bLUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

#101 suolucidir

suolucidir

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,221 posts
  • Joined: 04-December 05

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:54 PM

Points =/= value to a team.

Every skater is a scorer, don't you know. There is no other value in a player other than the number of points they generate.
PSN: CloakOfSkill

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

It bugs me when people pull out the gold medal for an example... Luongo only had to outplay Brodeur.


#102 NUCKS4CUP 28

NUCKS4CUP 28

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,349 posts
  • Joined: 28-November 08

Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

Every skater is a scorer, don't you know. There is no other value in a player other than the number of points they generate.


So are you saying someone like Pahlsson or Manny have absolutely no value to the team because they don't generate the points?
Posted Image

Believe in bLUOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

#103 -Vintage Canuck-

-Vintage Canuck-

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 72,176 posts
  • Joined: 24-May 10

Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

Haha, nobody was expecting this....

307mg00.jpg


#104 Great Dane 36

Great Dane 36

    K-Wing Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 12

Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:36 PM

Can people stop dwelling? What is the point of saying a trade was bad... start supporting MG he's been great. If you can't then why don't you go support Columbus' GM ;)

#105 wesley

wesley

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 589 posts
  • Joined: 12-March 10

Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:58 PM

Man. We traded away TWO future captains in one transcation. :frantic:

Edited by wesley, 04 April 2012 - 09:06 PM.


#106 Intotheboards

Intotheboards

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Joined: 16-March 11

Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:02 PM

Gonna slap yo' faces with some logic courtesy of the gentlemen at PITB.
http://passittobulis.com/
First article.
#1 fan of Keith Ballard's hips.

#107 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,935 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:03 AM

He is already playing with the big boys, so the impatient ones like yourself who think he's not playing the way you want, are being impatient with him and want him set down. Not too hard to understand that you need to be patient with young players playing in the NHL who have already spent time in the minors and done outstanding there. It a step back not forward and only the impatient would see different.


Kas has played a total of 33 games between Portland and Rochester.
Playing fourth line NHL minutes is not exactly 'showing patience' or helping in his development to the degree that playing full time minutes would do for him at the elite level play of the American League.
Although showing promise,Kas is not exactly performing at a level that stipulates the NHL is where he should be at this point in time of his career.
http://canucks.nhl.c....htm?id=8475178
http://www.amerks.com/statistics.asp

#108 CaNuCkSLoUiE23

CaNuCkSLoUiE23

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,404 posts
  • Joined: 01-November 09

Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

This is CDC. People here will say, "uhh Kassian is young and needs a few more years of more development...!! Points don't mean everything...!!"

The things that special Olympics coaches would say.

Stop. Just stop.

#109 Linden53

Linden53

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,569 posts
  • Joined: 27-October 04

Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

Kas has played a total of 33 games between Portland and Rochester.
Playing fourth line NHL minutes is not exactly 'showing patience' or helping in his development to the degree that playing full time minutes would do for him at the elite level play of the American League.
Although showing promise,Kas is not exactly performing at a level that stipulates the NHL  is where he should be at this point in time of his career.
http://canucks.nhl.c....htm?id=8475178
http://www.amerks.com/statistics.asp


Kassian is playing exactly the way he should be and is in no way out of place on an NHL roster. He is good defensively and after a full training camp will be great in his own end on this team. He has shown tenacity and a mean side to him. He is a big body that is here to hit, agitate and control the puck on the boards. He will be just fine. Big players take time for their hands to develop and he may or may not ever be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL, but he will have a long career based on the intangibles he can bring. He simply need to heal and get back in the lineup and play with that nasty part of his game. The Playoffs bring that out of everyone.

#110 nuck nit

nuck nit

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,935 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 10

Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:26 PM

So you'll be watching baseball until next season? And which team do you support?

regards,
G.


Gullumpus,
We all have our opinions on hockey and mine aren't like yours,obviously.
No Sulzer,no Hodgson and Kassian is relegated to a fourth line role,at best.
Couple that with Grags sitting in an 8th d spot on this team and there it is.
You always give your regards but try saying something of substance and we could have a conversation on a subject.




Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.