Kack Zassian Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Your hard pressed to find a Canucks fan who is satisfied with Raymonds play this year (myself included) Benefits - Not many quality free agents sign in the 2-2.5 million dollar range (Marco Sturm anyone?) - With a full offseason training, its unlikely he is as bad as he was this year. - If Raymond underperforms, there is likely a market for him (trade) - Wolski was still able to fetch a 3rd at the deadline (better than losing him for nothing @ free agency) - Worst case scenario he becomes this years Blake Comeau. - Comeau went pointless in 16 games, was claimed off waivers by Calgary. If we do not qualify Raymond, we are losing out on the potential for him to rebound in any form. He could go back to being a 50 point player, stay a 25-30 point player, or go pointless all season. We don't know that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The thing is no matter what he will always be a perimeter player He will always try hitting the boards instead of the guy He will always go out-wide and take a pointless wrist shot He will always be a pansy to be successful you've either got to have skill - which helps you with assists and goals aka hank or you've got to go to the net hard which he doesn't have either. all he's got is speed - i hope for his sake one day we play a bunch of beer leaguers and he looks fantastic but it just won't happen I'm tired of being disappointed - He will always be that guy that skates to the boards and falls down my opinion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I got off track a bit - I do understand what your trying to say I would like something back for him at least - I don't care if it's a high draft pick - something would be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I dunno, if he hasn't gotten it by now, how long are we gonna wait? It's like every time he figures out how to be effective, he reverts back to his old bad habits. I'd honestly rather give Schroeder or Sweatt a shot in the lineup. They come at more than half the cost, and way less risk because they can always be sent back down to the Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 I dunno, if he hasn't gotten it by now, how long are we gonna wait? It's like every time he figures out how to be effective, he reverts back to his old bad habits. I'd honestly rather give Schroeder or Sweatt a shot in the lineup. They come at more than half the cost, and way less risk because they can always be sent back down to the Wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kack Zassian Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 The thing is no matter what he will always be a perimeter player He will always try hitting the boards instead of the guy He will always go out-wide and take a pointless wrist shot He will always be a pansy to be successful you've either got to have skill - which helps you with assists and goals aka hank or you've got to go to the net hard which he doesn't have either. all he's got is speed - i hope for his sake one day we play a bunch of beer leaguers and he looks fantastic but it just won't happen I'm tired of being disappointed - He will always be that guy that skates to the boards and falls down my opinion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai604 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 He will be qualified for sure, without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I'd love it if he beefed up another 10-20 lbs and wasn't as scared as he is now... It'll take some of his speed but it'll add to his game, making him better overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needtogetswole Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Heres an interesting read on the notion that Raymond is a perimeter player http://vansunsportsb...rimeter-player/ Obviously playing physical isn't his strong suit, but his speed and positioning make him effective when it comes to forechecking. I also don't think "He will always be that guy that skates to the boards and falls down" is a fair statement. This hasn't always been true about his game, and is something that can be worked on easily. Again, the idea is basically retain him, and almost give him an extended training camp (10-15 games) and decide how valuable he is moving forward. His offseason could have a large impact on his future with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Your hard pressed to find a Canucks fan who is satisfied with Raymonds play this year (myself included) Benefits - Not many quality free agents sign in the 2-2.5 million dollar range (Marco Sturm anyone?) - With a full offseason training, its unlikely he is as bad as he was this year. - If Raymond underperforms, there is likely a market for him (trade) - Wolski was still able to fetch a 3rd at the deadline (better than losing him for nothing @ free agency) - Worst case scenario he becomes this years Blake Comeau. - Comeau went pointless in 16 games, was claimed off waivers by Calgary. If we do not qualify Raymond, we are losing out on the potential for him to rebound in any form. He could go back to being a 50 point player, stay a 25-30 point player, or go pointless all season. We don't know that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Heres an interesting read on the notion that Raymond is a perimeter player http://vansunsportsb...rimeter-player/ Obviously playing physical isn't his strong suit, but his speed and positioning make him effective when it comes to forechecking. I also don't think "He will always be that guy that skates to the boards and falls down" is a fair statement. This hasn't always been true about his game, and is something that can be worked on easily. Again, the idea is basically retain him, and almost give him an extended training camp (10-15 games) and decide how valuable he is moving forward. His offseason could have a large impact on his future with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr8zyCanuck Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We've seen players who miss their offseason training struggle during the year. Raymond obviously missed out on offseason training, Kesler hasn't performed like he had in the previous season, Malhotra has struggled at times, and last year Ballard had a rough season because of his hip surgery. I think we can all agree it hasn't been a great season for him, and it could be due to a lack of an offseason, or it could 100% be a different form of regression in his game. Comeau was waived after 16 games this season, and I could see Raymond getting a similar leash. It also gives you an extended look at your players looking to make the big club (Sweatt, Schroeder, Jensen, etc). I think when it comes to Raymond, the team needs to be 100% certain he won't regain form before giving up on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 It all seems relative to me. We may be paying too much for a brilliantly defensive forward, who on his day is one of the most exciting players to watch in hockey...........but can also be one of the most frustrating. We cannot judge a player properly either who has been threatened by a career ending injury and who because of it missed a great deal of conditioning and match practice, By all means, as is the won't on here, keep comparing him to perfection, but I would rather compare him to some of our own players who are faring little better and with less of an excuse...........or even one or two other players around. I have said it before but will repeat it again. You need speed AND defence in the playoffs........as well as points. Mason Raymond has been laying on quite a few chances for other players who are not converting, that is not his fault. He is also very unlucky with his shots/goal percentage, hopefully that may change in the playoffs. He and Manny deserve a bit more loyalty on here. Daniel Paille - 27- $1.15 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Dustin Penner - 29 - $4.25 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Jarret Stoll - 29 - $3.4 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Daymond Langkow - 35 - $4.5 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Mason Raymond - 26 - $2.6 REGULAR SEASON 54 10 10 20 4 18 1 1 2 125 8.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 when raymond tko's lucic you're going to watch his value rise quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrath_jason Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 when raymond tko's lucic you're going to watch his value rise quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 no way. you have to look beyond the obvious. it's a question of desire. roberto duran was 5 ft 7 inches tall. raymond has around 4 or 5 inches on that. duran weighed between 135 and 145 lbs. again raymond has at least 40 lbs on that. yet, if you put duran in his prime, in a ring with lucic most money would go on duran. why? willpower. desire. and yes lucic has taken boxing lessons. duran was nicknamed manos del piedra which means hands of stone. also nicknamed el cholo, the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 so you pack 15 lbs of muscle onto raymond. you put him in a ring and teach him technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeparrosesmustache Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I think there ar younger prospects in the system that can put up the same points Raymond has for a cheaper cap hit. I also feel that Raymond has no identity or role on this team. At the moment I just look at him as a depth guy similar to Ebbet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 you're ignoring the fact that he's training in private. uppercuts, jabs ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinarama Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 left hooks right hooks .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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