pylon05 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 With Raymond; Gillis will allow him to sit most of the summer and see if anyone offersheets him. If they do at $1,567,044 to $3,134,088 Gillis wil probably take the second rounder. I don't see anyone going over the higher part of this but if they did it would give us a first and a third which would be sick for Raymond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 It all seems relative to me. We may be paying too much for a brilliantly defensive forward, who on his day is one of the most exciting players to watch in hockey...........but can also be one of the most frustrating. We cannot judge a player properly either who has been threatened by a career ending injury and who because of it missed a great deal of conditioning and match practice, By all means, as is the won't on here, keep comparing him to perfection, but I would rather compare him to some of our own players who are faring little better and with less of an excuse...........or even one or two other players around. I have said it before but will repeat it again. You need speed AND defence in the playoffs........as well as points. Mason Raymond has been laying on quite a few chances for other players who are not converting, that is not his fault. He is also very unlucky with his shots/goal percentage, hopefully that may change in the playoffs. He and Manny deserve a bit more loyalty on here. Daniel Paille - 27- $1.15 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Dustin Penner - 29 - $4.25 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Jarret Stoll - 29 - $3.4 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Daymond Langkow - 35 - $4.5 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Mason Raymond - 26 - $2.6 REGULAR SEASON 54 10 10 20 4 18 1 1 2 125 8.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 so you pack 15 lbs of muscle onto raymond. you put him in a ring and teach him technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber_pwnzor Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 There isn't any space for him in our line up... He can't play on the bottom two lines, and Burrows, Daniel, Booth are pretty much bound to the top six, as for the last spot: Kass, Lappy, Higgins and Hansen are all better players than him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uber_pwnzor Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 It all seems relative to me. We may be paying too much for a brilliantly defensive forward, who on his day is one of the most exciting players to watch in hockey...........but can also be one of the most frustrating. We cannot judge a player properly either who has been threatened by a career ending injury and who because of it missed a great deal of conditioning and match practice, By all means, as is the won't on here, keep comparing him to perfection, but I would rather compare him to some of our own players who are faring little better and with less of an excuse...........or even one or two other players around. I have said it before but will repeat it again. You need speed AND defence in the playoffs........as well as points. Mason Raymond has been laying on quite a few chances for other players who are not converting, that is not his fault. He is also very unlucky with his shots/goal percentage, hopefully that may change in the playoffs. He and Manny deserve a bit more loyalty on here. Daniel Paille - 27- $1.15 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Dustin Penner - 29 - $4.25 REGULAR SEASON 67 9 6 15 -4 15 0 2 1 84 10.7 Jarret Stoll - 29 - $3.4 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Daymond Langkow - 35 - $4.5 REGULAR SEASON 76 5 14 19 3 58 0 0 0 128 3.9 Mason Raymond - 26 - $2.6 REGULAR SEASON 54 10 10 20 4 18 1 1 2 125 8.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 With Raymond; Gillis will allow him to sit most of the summer and see if anyone offersheets him. If they do at $1,567,044 to $3,134,088 Gillis wil probably take the second rounder. I don't see anyone going over the higher part of this but if they did it would give us a first and a third which would be sick for Raymond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorrcoq Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 We may be paying too much for a brilliantly defensive forward, who on his day is one of the most exciting players to watch in hockey........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorrcoq Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 no way. you have to look beyond the obvious. it's a question of desire. roberto duran was 5 ft 7 inches tall. raymond has around 4 or 5 inches on that. duran weighed between 135 and 145 lbs. again raymond has at least 40 lbs on that. yet, if you put duran in his prime, in a ring with lucic most money would go on duran. why? willpower. desire. and yes lucic has taken boxing lessons. duran was nicknamed manos del piedra which means hands of stone. also nicknamed el cholo, the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Morris Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 WOW!!!! He's not living up to "your" standards - Big Whoop! Yet he continues to get ice time and will no doubt be part of the Playoof Line-up. He's on our team right now. Cheer for the guy. He's a speedy forward who keeps the Opposing D on their heels. For a 3rd line winger whats wrong with that. Stops the Opposing D from wanting to pinch, and getting into the offensive attack. Just his presence on the ice does this. I'm a fan of Raymond!!! I don't care what you guys think. I can't wait until he lights it up this playoffs and you all have to eat some humble pie!! - No Ice Cream for you negative Nancy's either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Raymond is shrouded in myth and lies on here, of that there is no doubt. For a start many on here, who do not see his defensive qualities, make me think they either don't understand the game or their bias has eaten away so much of their judgement that they are incapable of fair assessment. Others say he doesn't have a role and he doesn't fit. Well if that is the case then AV is not the coach we think he is because he firstly, couldn't wait to rush him back into the team (despite other possibilities ) and secondly, he full fills the role, regularly, of quick outlet and passer far better than say, Booth for example who may I remind you is getting nearly twice as much and while not having the excuse of a broken vertebrae and lack of pre season has posted figures not much better than Raymond. We should also remember Booths inclination to ALWAYS go for the shot when comparing these stats. For the poster above who does not think he is exciting, I must be hearing things when I note the buzz of expectation from the crowd when he breaks with the puck. I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm not saying he couldn't be more physical or that another 10lbs of muscle wouldn't do him some good. What I am saying is he brings a lot of qualities to the Canucks which seem to be either not understood by many on here or just don't interest those who are only enamoured with rushes to the net that 95 times out of 100 lead to giving the puck away. The players I have named above, CDC would no doubt wet their pants if it was announced were coming here. Sturm comes to mind. And yet their salaries combined to performance make them miserable compared to Raymond. This confirms what I have always suspected and that is that half of CDC have the attention span of a gnat, haven't the patience to analyse or understand the game and are absolutely clueless when it comes to judging a hockey player. Lastly, I have no axe to grind with Booth. In fact I feel he will be the next victim on here (and I will defend him too) because if he doesn't keep feeding of the mob he will be another Raymond, seen as diminishing these peoples self esteem and bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niloc009 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Let's look at the pros and cons of Mason Raymond: Pros: Scored 25 goals in the past Great defensively Insane speed Can play any role asked of him (sans 4th line) Cons: Is very inconsistent offensively (Streaky) Falls down a lot Bit of a puck hog The pros outweigh the cons IMHO. A lot of players are streaky. Mikael Samuelsson was the king of that. But you have to hope he gets hot at the right time. Raymond's falling down may be a lack of core strength. You can't train your core with a broken back. After a full offseason of training he will have more balance on his skates, I guarantee it. Puck hog is the only concerning thing to me. Kesler and Booth are the same way, so that line will never work. Raymond will be confined to the 3rd line. But that's fine. A Raymond-Pahlsson-Hansen line is a fantastic checking line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 While you have to temper expectations for the future, you also have to weigh in the fact his back was broken before he started this season late. No real training for a full summer? That sucks. The problem with Raymond is that he didn't look great last season either. He reminds me a lot of Peter Schaefer (an earlier one): A fast, two-way capable player, who is more inclined to score in wide-open hockey than in the hockey of today. If the rules change again to make the game more wide open, then Raymond's value would skyrocket. Regular season. In the playoffs he'll still be easily intimidated. Prove me wrong, Mason. Cheers. TOML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxcanuckinTO Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 he's so fast and can play in a puck possession game, pk, if he's on a hot streak i think he should be utilized on powerplay too. i think he's a liability when he's tired and we ice the puck for a desfensive zone faceoff, his upper body strength is below average, he is inconsistent/too streaky scoring goals on home ice. i'd like to see him take less shots from the outside and help the play develop so he's in closer for a more high percentage scoring chance. When he plays with momentum, it's really fun to watch him play. i can't wait to see what happens come the playoffs, you have to admit stanley cup playoff experience is valuable to any team and in mase's case getting back to the finals would mean a lot to him. i think he's matured and rebounded from the injury and now tougher to deal with the brutal aspect of his job. We sure need his legs on the road games. if things go well, it'd be nice to see mase have options and let him decide to stay or go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Dangled Out Of The Womb Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Get Henrik and Daniel to help him out with stick-handling and offensive awareness, Kassian to help him keep his balance, and Booth to teach him how to be effective physically with a smaller frame. Putting on 15lbs during the off-season wouldn't hurt either, seeing as he's only 185lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWheeler Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I have NEVER thought Raymond was a very exciting player. And I sure don't think he is worth the 2.5+ million in cap space next year when we have another player who is in a similar situation (Malhotra). If I had to choose between the two, its Malhotra hands down. I'm sorry, I just don't see how he is exciting. He doesn't dangle anybody, aside from being able to stop and start quickly. Guys like Lapierre, Higgins, and Burrows are all doing a FAR better job than him - and they are all cheaper! Raymond needs to be dealt at the draft, and a guy like Kassian or Sweatt can fill his spot next year, and be much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWheeler Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Get Henrik and Daniel to help him out with stick-handling and offensive awareness, Kassian to help him keep his balance, and Booth to teach him how to be effective physically with a smaller frame. Putting on 15lbs during the off-season wouldn't hurt either, seeing as he's only 185lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBie604 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 From what I see from this thread, Raymond has become the next "let's ignore everything good he does and just fault him" player. Kind of like Bieksa a couple years back when everyone wanted him traded. Granted he does fall a lot but I don't see him as being a puck hog anymore so than Booth or Kess. Defensively he is great on the backcheck and positionally sound in his own end. His speed drives back the defense on the rush opening up more space for the other players. It's also true, he doesn't drive the net hard enough with the puck and is predictable at times but he's not as bad as half the fans believe he is. With that said, he could be better but I am willing to be more patient with him. You can see sometimes that he seems to be playing scared. He had a really difficult summer where many thought he may never play again. It does play tricks with your mind for awhile. As much as I love snowboarding, when I injured my neck it took me almost two full seasons before I was confident enough to be willing to bomb it down a mountain again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The only point I would add is it is totally untrue to say he is intimidated. If he was he would cut his speed DOWN in light of his injury. Does anyone see evidence of that? On the contrary he risks a higher chance of injury with his speed and height to weight ratio than most other players on the ice. Despite that he looks unconcerned for any consequences.............could any of us say the same. I cringed when he was bundled into the stanchion AND pushed into the boards (almost identical to his injury push) against Anaheim. He is a very brave player and in no way lacks heart. Also, there is NOTHING lacking in his puck handling. Anyone who says that is not worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslerian one Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Qualify him, but if he doesn't perform like we thought he could three years ago, he's out of year by the trade deadlne. Raymond isn't the first guy who gave us high hopes and fizzle thereafter, regardless of whether he's able to recover from injury or not. He will get better (of course he has to), but not sure if he'll be the guy we thought he could be when he put up 25 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The only point I would add is it is totally untrue to say he is intimidated. If he was he would cut his speed DOWN in light of his injury. Does anyone see evidence of that? On the contrary he risks a higher chance of injury with his speed and height to weight ratio than most other players on the ice. Despite that he looks unconcerned for any consequences.............could any of us say the same. I cringed when he was bundled into the stanchion AND pushed into the boards (almost identical to his injury push) against Anaheim. He is a very brave player and in no way lacks heart. Also, there is NOTHING lacking in his puck handling. Anyone who says that is not worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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