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Kassian Is Not Nhl Ready!


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#181 js604

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:21 AM

It is your opinion this trade weakens the nucks.

That is based on your belief that hodgson would make more of a positive than a negative impact on the nucks and especially the playoffs.

Nothing hodgson has done indicated this to be the case.

As has been pointed out ad naseum hodgson has been a liability defensively when not being sheltered as he was in van.

That argument is OVER.


It is your opinion this trade strengthen the nucks.

That is based on your belief that Kassian would make more of a positive than a negative impact on the nucks and especially the playoffs.

Nothing Kassian has done indicated this to be the case.

Hodgson is NOT a defensive liability if his point production outpaces some star players and is a +8 rating. Can't blame him if his linemates suck in Buffalo.

That argument is OVER.

(Accusing others of using their opinion when you yourself are also using your own opinion. The irony).

Edited by js604, 13 April 2012 - 04:28 AM.


#182 gradin123

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:31 AM

It is your opinion this trade weakens the nucks.

That is based on your belief that hodgson would make more of a positive than a negative impact on the nucks and especially the playoffs.

Nothing hodgson has done indicated this to be the case.

As has been pointed out ad naseum hodgson has been a liability defensively when not being sheltered as he was in van.

That argument is OVER.

Its also been discussed ad naseum why the trade happened when it did. Gillis had to sell high. Hodgson had been protected and sheltered and also wanted what he was not going to get and the rumblings had already happened (article by Gallgher).

Plus we were able to acquire Pahlsson who has been an excellent addition. And scored some points.

Again hodgson may score more points than Kassian. He will also be more of a defensive liability. And hodgson ain't gonna hit not fight nor create space with his physical presence.

As for Kassian in Buffalo and Rochester you need to consider the source of your info.

Not one person has said anything negative about his ability except Lindy Ruff. Buff was beset by injuries and as a small team was desperate for a physical dominating presence. They were looking to a ???? rookie for that.

Unreal expectations.

But yeah nearly a point per game in the AhL as a rookie. Better than Hodgson did. Zero need for him to say there.


Thats your opinion on Hodgson bud not the reality. There is no doubt he struggled immediately after the trade but he found his place on the team in the last 10 games and was actually one of their better players. The Sabres were really on a role until all the injuries they got on defense and all those injuries on defense probably didn't help Cody's +/- which is a overrated stat anyways especially in a small sample size.

In Hodgson's last 10 games with Buffalo he had 3 Goals and 5 Assists but more than that he was often one of the better players on the ice for Buffalo. Any Sabres fan will tell you that they were very impressed by Hodgson down the stretch. Everyone in Buffalo is feeling really good about this trade right now and the majority of the people in Vancouver are not, so that alone should tell you something.

With Daniel Sedin out right now I think the Canucks biggest problem by far is their lack of offense and that is what Cody was capable of bringing right now that Kassian can't. Also, remember Hodgson was a proven clutch player in the world Juniors and he certainly looks like the type of player that will thrive in the playoff during his career. He barely played in the playoffs last year and when he did it was usually on the 4th line so don't even bother mentioning that.

Edited by gradin123, 13 April 2012 - 04:35 AM.


#183 لني

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:01 AM

It is your opinion this trade strengthen the nucks.

That is based on your belief that Kassian would make more of a positive than a negative impact on the nucks and especially the playoffs.

Nothing Kassian has done indicated this to be the case.

Hodgson is NOT a defensive liability if his point production outpaces some star players and is a +8 rating. Can't blame him if his linemates suck in Buffalo.

That argument is OVER.

(Accusing others of using their opinion when you yourself are also using your own opinion. The irony).




:picard:

He was a plus 8 playing protected minutes on the nucks and went -7 playing unsheltered minutes on the Sabres.

This has already been discussed as naseum by other who have quoted the supporting Fenwick/Corsi numbers.

And I haven't actually been making a claim that it has strengthened the team. Simply made it different.

Edited by Lonny Bohonos, 13 April 2012 - 05:02 AM.

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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#184 لني

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:07 AM

Thats your opinion on Hodgson bud not the reality. There is no doubt he struggled immediately after the trade but he found his place on the team in the last 10 games and was actually one of their better players. The Sabres were really on a role until all the injuries they got on defense and all those injuries on defense probably didn't help Cody's +/- which is a overrated stat anyways especially in a small sample size.

In Hodgson's last 10 games with Buffalo he had 3 Goals and 5 Assists but more than that he was often one of the better players on the ice for Buffalo. Any Sabres fan will tell you that they were very impressed by Hodgson down the stretch. Everyone in Buffalo is feeling really good about this trade right now and the majority of the people in Vancouver are not, so that alone should tell you something.

With Daniel Sedin out right now I think the Canucks biggest problem by far is their lack of offense and that is what Cody was capable of bringing right now that Kassian can't. Also, remember Hodgson was a proven clutch player in the world Juniors and he certainly looks like the type of player that will thrive in the playoff during his career. He barely played in the playoffs last year and when he did it was usually on the 4th line so don't even bother mentioning that.


Forget the +/- because as you say it's over rated.

Look at his Fenwick/Corsi etc

Cody is clutch?

It funny people want to use positive past performance for Cody but when it comes to Kassian we shouldn't mention it.

Should we talk about how clutch Cody was in the AHL?

Keep cherry pickin. Ain't gonna bring Cody back.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#185 wai_lai416

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:21 AM

Hodgson would choke in the playoffs like he did last season (one assist in 12 games with -4 rating) and I'd rather have a non-scoring checker. Besides, part of the deal was to get gragnani over sulzer and if you think sulzer is better because he has more points... :picard:


lol part of the deal was to get gragnani? i'm sure he'll contribute a lot in the press box during the playoff.. regardless of how you look at the trade.. we traded away a player with the potential to score goals in the playoff as shown in the regular season this year.. i don't understand wtf is wrong with you ppl going back to last years playoff performance.. was Hodgson great? or look anywhere near ready last regular season? we traded Hodgson for Kassian who plays a limited role if any and a liability for going to the penalty box, and Gragnani who plays like a forward and a huge defensive liability. Sure i understand part of the reason to trade Hodgson was because Pahlsson was going to take over his role as the 3rd line center.. but couldn't we just move Hodgson to the 2nd line wing and drop Higgins to the 3rd line? wouldn't that solve the issue Hodgson<Pahlsson defensively? i mean keeping Hodgson and playing him on the 2nd line gives you more flexibility on your 3rd line.. and say if we had an injury to the top 6 like we do now.. we had the luxury of moving a higgins back into the top 6.. vs now we have to rely on Raymond for production on the top line..

#186 ice orca

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:32 AM

lol part of the deal was to get gragnani? i'm sure he'll contribute a lot in the press box during the playoff.. regardless of how you look at the trade.. we traded away a player with the potential to score goals in the playoff as shown in the regular season this year.. i don't understand wtf is wrong with you ppl going back to last years playoff performance.. was Hodgson great? or look anywhere near ready last regular season? we traded Hodgson for Kassian who plays a limited role if any and a liability for going to the penalty box, and Gragnani who plays like a forward and a huge defensive liability. Sure i understand part of the reason to trade Hodgson was because Pahlsson was going to take over his role as the 3rd line center.. but couldn't we just move Hodgson to the 2nd line wing and drop Higgins to the 3rd line? wouldn't that solve the issue Hodgson<Pahlsson defensively? i mean keeping Hodgson and playing him on the 2nd line gives you more flexibility on your 3rd line.. and say if we had an injury to the top 6 like we do now.. we had the luxury of moving a higgins back into the top 6.. vs now we have to rely on Raymond for production on the top line..


Cody was tried on the 2nd line wing and he was completely lost out there, god you guys are just grasping at straws now. He is not physical or fast enough to get in on the Canucks aggesive forecheck as a 2nd line winger.

#187 لني

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

lol part of the deal was to get gragnani? i'm sure he'll contribute a lot in the press box during the playoff.. regardless of how you look at the trade.. we traded away a player with the potential to score goals in the playoff as shown in the regular season this year.. i don't understand wtf is wrong with you ppl going back to last years playoff performance.. was Hodgson great? or look anywhere near ready last regular season? we traded Hodgson for Kassian who plays a limited role if any and a liability for going to the penalty box, and Gragnani who plays like a forward and a huge defensive liability. Sure i understand part of the reason to trade Hodgson was because Pahlsson was going to take over his role as the 3rd line center.. but couldn't we just move Hodgson to the 2nd line wing and drop Higgins to the 3rd line? wouldn't that solve the issue Hodgson<Pahlsson defensively? i mean keeping Hodgson and playing him on the 2nd line gives you more flexibility on your 3rd line.. and say if we had an injury to the top 6 like we do now.. we had the luxury of moving a higgins back into the top 6.. vs now we have to rely on Raymond for production on the top line..


Kassian has 51 mins in penalties this year in 44 games. Only 8 were minors.

3 fights + 2 misconducts.

Consistently hes had 5 fight per season in the OHL bar the one season he had 13.

Hardly a liability for penalties.
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It is not my intent to get in circular arguments with anybody. The reason i have avoided saying anything specific is because i know you or someone else will attempt to find an alternate explanation to my points which i intern will have to defend. I see no point in getting involved with the circular argument that is already well under way in this thread. I simply intended to voice my opinion on the subject. In the end either you accept the possibility of corruption and conspiracy or you don't.

Also i find your comments to be very childish. Does taking what i say out of context, paraphrasing and misquoting it make you feel good about yourself? Grow up.


Logic at its finest.

#188 bd71

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 07:52 AM

Clearly you have no idea who Alek Stojanov is. Let me drop some knowledge: Is Zack Kassian the Modern Alek Stojanov? In other words, get over it. He's an NHL rookie playing his first playoff game. And would you really want Cody playing the shutdown role with Kopitar's line being his matchup?


This is a good point. Pahlsson can't contain him so I don't think Hodgson would have been a good matchup at all.

Where Hodgson would be nice is on that second power play unit. It is a huge upgrade over what they are putting out now. How does the league's best power play by a mile go to almost non-existent the last month or so? That's the biggest weakness right now.

Ehrhoff would be nice on the blue line as well but that's a whole different story. Edler seems to have gone from Norris talk to being demoted right off the power play.

#189 ajhockey

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

I'm hearing this from posters, yet, no one ever gives anything to back that up. How has he looked lost, in your opinion?


He's not handling the puck well is part of it. In particular his offensive skills seem to be stifled. He's hitting ok, and being aggressive but he doesn't look dangerous offensively.

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#190 stawns

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:13 PM

He's not handling the puck well is part of it. In particular his offensive skills seem to be stifled. He's hitting ok, and being aggressive but he doesn't look dangerous offensively.


I'm not sure what you're watching, but I see him get the puck in the corner and he's a rock with it.......very tough to get it away from him. I think the stifled offensive skills is more about who he is playing with......put him with more offensive players and he'll show his skill level. He might not be as skilled as COHI, but he's not as far off as many posters portray him. He's a skilled fwd.

#191 Millerdraft

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

You should know that Kassian is more of a playmaking PF than a scoring PF.

His MO is to work the puck out and dish.

Sure. A lot will depend on his line mates much like what happened with Neal.

Plus PP time.

He's always been at a 1/3 goals to 2/3 assists ration and I don't think it's impossible he ends up maxing out at 20g and 40a.

Heck if Raymond can get 50+ then it's wry possible Kassian can.

Raymond's fast but he's hardly a scorer or a playmaker.


Ironically the day after we lost the Stanley Cup in game #7 (with Milan Lucic fresh in their minds) this place, and the entire city for that matter, was screaming for Gillis to get a powerforward for Kesler. So not only does Gillis go out there and grab a powerforward with a proven nasty side, but he gets a playmaking powerforward for a shoot-first-centre to boot and this place still complains!

Can someone explain how the draft works for Europeans regarding the NHL. I'm not clear on the protocols. Can a team spot a European and then just give him a contract?

It's the same for European skaters as it is for North American skaters, Bodee.

Right now he is lost because he knows the fans in Vancouver expect him to be very physical but he fancies himself as a offensive player first and foremost. He doesn't really know how to be an effective power forward at the NHL level yet and he hadn't even mastered the AHL before he was called up by Buffalo. He is young but I see a potential issue in that I don't think this guy really wants to play on a edge anymore. He did play and live on the edge in his junior days and found himself go over the edge too much (20 game suspension and arrest for bar fight). IMO, it changed him because he doesn't trusts himself so he makes a conscious effort to rein himself in.

Game#1 was an example. The penalty he took IMO was completely bogus but after that penalty Kassian pulled up on his potential hits. It seems like he is trying to figure out a way of playing physical without taking penalities and as a result I believe he is thinking way too much on the ice.


No sh!t he's confused by the refereeing 180 we've seen from two weeks ago to now. Not to mention fans like these putting him in an absolute no-win scenario:

He played something like 5 min 30 and got a penalty as well.

Not exactly a guy you can count on to scare the opponents into changing their antics.

No he isn't NHL ready and it sucks, because this guy was traded for the future not NOW, I care about winning a cup now not 5 years down the road when the likes of our core or slowing down, NOW NOT LATER, I'm sick of waiting it's been to freaking long to not win a stanely cup.

Then we turn our 3rd line into a shut down line, instead of keeping it a scoring line plus a bit of a shut down line, remember your only changing 1 player from the 3rd line, and that one player may not be the best defensive player yet, but having that ability to have a 3rd line to score in playoffs are you kidding me? Even if Cody Hodgson wasn't the best defensive player he didn't take many Penalties, and not taking penalties and keeping your team at even strength in my mind is better then Kassian who takes way more penalties, which makes it just harder on the whole team.

Stats:
Cody Hodgson 20gp in Buffalo had 2 PIM
Zack Kassian in 17gp in Canucks had 31PIM

Who cares if Cody wasn't the best defensively, being short handed is WORSE.


These fans have no concept of what a good penalty vs bad penalty and a good call vs bad call is. Lazy hooks on neutral zone backchecks and hooking/tripping/highsticking penalties 200ft from your net are bad penalties. Hooks/trips/highsticks that directly stop a goal from being scored are good penalties. Charging penalties that soften up defencemen and later on cause them to panic with the puck are worth it (not to mention the physical wear and tear over a 7-game war of attrition).

Penalties are going to happen in playoff hockey (it's a main reason why Gillis got Malhotra instead of Wellwood & Pahlsson instead of Hodgson). It's like these tools completely forgot how Chicago & Boston have won the last two Cups. Chicago took 95 minor penalties in 22gp, Philadelphia took 107 minors in 23gp in 09-10. Last year Vancouver took 111 minors in 25gp, Boston took 115 minors in 25gp. In fact, in terms of total pims/game Vancouver & Boston were #2 & #3!

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#192 sQuish

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

Biggest bust of a trade in a lonnnng time. Gillis will be fired for this in a few years when Cody's a superstar putting up 80+ points.

#193 Blackberries

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:27 PM

Biggest bust of a trade in a lonnnng ti
me. Gillis will be fired for this in a few years when Cody's a superstar putting up 80+ points.


Lawl ok there nostradamous

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#194 Strawberries

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:33 PM

:picard:
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#195 oldnews

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:55 PM

Only hockey noobs who don't have much of a clue are still whining about the Hodgson trade.

#196 nuck nit

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:09 PM

Only hockey noobs who don't have much of a clue are still whining about the Hodgson trade.


Whining becomes thee.

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#197 oldnews

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

Whining becomes thee.

:picard:


shakespearean quality witt, nuck nit
but I have not time to whine - I'm still celebrating the Hodgson trade...

#198 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:37 PM

People have been putting unrealistic expectations on the guy since day one and Ive never understood it.

I was hoping that he could be a physical presence out there and make the most out his ice time, (which he has done quite well) but the hands, the footwork, the reflexes and the way he thinks the game are not up to speed yet.

It isnt realistic to be expecting him to contribute on the score sheet yet, but even more so dont bash the guy because he isnt.

#199 Millerdraft

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

This is a good point. Pahlsson can't contain him so I don't think Hodgson would have been a good matchup at all.

Where Hodgson would be nice is on that second power play unit. It is a huge upgrade over what they are putting out now. How does the league's best power play by a mile go to almost non-existent the last month or so? That's the biggest weakness right now.

Ehrhoff would be nice on the blue line as well but that's a whole different story. Edler seems to have gone from Norris talk to being demoted right off the power play.


You just noticed the powerplay outage a month ago? The powerplay went 7-for-55 (12.7%) from January 8th, 2012 until February 27th, 2012, a 21-game span during which time your hero CoHo was still here!

The powerplay after CoHo left went 5-for-22 (22.7%) in the nines games following the trade deadline until Daniel Sedin was injured. The powerplay finished the season 4-for-42 (9.5%) in the last ten games after Daniel went down. Combine the two and you get 9-for-64 (14.1%) which is slightly better than the 21-games following the Boston game when we still had Hodgson, believe it or not.

Edited by Millerdraft, 13 April 2012 - 05:46 PM.

Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#200 zrvoff

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 05:51 PM

Well, Kassian is not in the top form but he is not bad as you think.

#201 bounceshot

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:14 PM

The kid will be okay. He's pretty strong in the corners just needs to relax the hands a bit when he's moving from behind the net. He sees the ice pretty good. Tell you one thing, I love when there's an issue going on with an opponent ready to put some glove in our faces and the the kid just moves in between the scrum in a calm manner and things seem to dissipate pretty quickly. Just having the jam to do it whenever required is something we lacked last year. He'll be fine!

#202 key2thecup

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:17 PM

Kassian is fine were he is in his development.

Dr. Ron Paul 2016!


#203 gamasutra

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:31 PM

MG thought the team had goal scoring to burn, so he went out and acquired toughness. I doubt he would have made that trade had he known the teams leading goal scorer would be cheap-shotted in the face and sidelined indefinitely.

Edited by gamasutra, 13 April 2012 - 06:32 PM.


#204 2010Canucks

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:05 AM

Hodgson would choke in the playoffs like he did last season (one assist in 12 games with -4 rating) and I'd rather have a non-scoring checker. Besides, part of the deal was to get gragnani over sulzer and if you think sulzer is better because he has more points... :picard:


This comment is the only thing that deserves a facepalm, Hodgson would choke? You mean like he did vs bruins, blackhawks, and red wings this year???

#205 gradin123

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:21 AM

This comment is the only thing that deserves a facepalm, Hodgson would choke? You mean like he did vs bruins, blackhawks, and red wings this year???


Exactly. Hodgson wasn't even given a chance in last years playoffs. He barely played! I'm not really saying he should have played more last year because perhaps he wasn't ready yet but his game improved a lot this year and taking his stats from last years playoffs and saying that is any indicator of how he would have played in this years playoffs is a joke.

The trade was at best was poorly timed (could have waited until the offseason) and at worst will go down as being horrible.

#206 gradin123

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:18 PM

Thanks Gillis! Thanks for setting this franchise back by trading for Alex Stojanov v2.0!

Hard to help in the playoffs when you are stapled to the bench after a bad giveaway.

Seriously the Canucks obviously need scoring. It is complete desperation time and there is no point of even playing guys like Dale Weise, Byron Bitz or Zack Kassian now.

Call up Reinprecht, call up Mancari and throw Kassian to the Wolves

Edited by gradin123, 15 April 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#207 250Integra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:18 PM

We traded a 20 goal scorer, someone who could've helped us with our scoring woes for this plug.


Good Job MG!

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#208 Tokasmoka

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:21 PM

Bust

#209 Navyblue

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

We traded a 20 goal scorer, someone who could've helped us with our scoring woes for this plug.


Good Job MG!


Even with the pressure from his camp, he still wanted to play. Play the cocky rookie who scores when we need a ???? goal.
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#210 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 10:23 PM

I really didn't want to be an idiot and make this topic, but wow. Wow oh wow was that a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE trade. Jesus Christ. Was he even playing tonight?

MG, please explain, why did we get this piece of useless horse $hit? Oh, to defend and protect our star players! Great! So why the hell did he do NOTHING when Hank was hit? Huh? WHY?

Call me a historical moron, but until I receive a valid answer, don't lock this. You guys know it, Hodgson IS a game changer. Boston ring a bell? 2nd unit PP ring a bell? Sick passes ring a bell?

Talk about a Cam Neely. Heck, it's worse. Each and everyone of you know, our team was not the same as soon as we traded him. This thread is not having a huge boner for Hodgson, I am just speaking the truth. How would LA deal with 3 scoring lines? No chance.
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