DownUndaCanuck Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 So now that the season's almost over I thought it'd be a good idea to dissect each one of MG's trades and how they panned out. I'm sure he had an idea and it's easy to look at with hindsight, but interesting nonetheless. Last season his acquisitions were perfectly suited to what this team needed in regards to Hamhuis, Ballard, Higgins and Lapierre and we went on to a very successful cup run. However, after losing to the Bruins, MG decided to bulk up our forwards and lose depth on defence, leading to these trades: Signing Marco Sturm - No points for the Canucks, was invisible in 6 games played. Let Ehrhoff walk, sign Bieksa instead - Bieksa scores more points than Ehrhoff but our powerplay really struggles. It's not about the individual, its about the team and this team needed Ehrhoff more than Bieksa. Anyone would form a shutdown pair with Hamhuis, but not many can replace Ehrhoff on the powerplay point and the Sedins' point totals took a hit as well. Traded Sturm for Reinprecht - Reinprecht hasn't even played a Canuck game so far so this is already a loss, as Sturm has at least scored some points for Florida. Traded Samuelsson for Booth - Made sense at the time to trade for more youth and a bigger, physical body, but look at what happened. We lost a key veteran and leadership guy on our team and our best playoff performer. We lost probably our best powerplay specialist and someone with chemistry with the twins AND Kesler, all 3 of whom struggled offensively without him. Booth had 16 goals (3 PPG) and 29 points (+1 on a great plus-minus team) in 56 Canuck games. Samuelsson had 13 goals (6 PPG) and 28 points (+2 on a terrible plus-minus team) in 48 Panther games. Quite simply, Samuelsson produced more offence than Booth and now he has 3 important assists in 2 playoff games while Booth has 0 points in 3 games. Traded for Pahlsson - A great signing, 2 goals and 6 points in 19 regular season games but that equates to about 10 goals, under 30 points in a full season which are great 4th line numbers or very average 3rd line center numbers. Great utility player so I'll call this trade a win, even if his pricetag is a bit steep. Traded Hodgson for Kassian - Worst trade in the history of the franchise. We had a 20-goal scoring, 40-point player on our 3rd line who was insurance for us in case we had an injury to our top-6, and guess what: now we do. MG didn't trade Schneider in case Luongo was injured, so he shouldn't of traded Hodgson in case one of the Sedins got injured and look what happened. Plus, he was a great powerplay producer and now our PP has gone quiet. Worst of all, our depth scoring has shrivelled up as we replace a 20-goal scorer in Hodgson with a 10-goal-pace scorer in Pahlsson who isn't as great a playmaker as Hodgson, hence affecting Hansen's production too. Meanwhile Kassian has been a 4th line player for us making terrible giveaways this playoffs and rarely hitting anyone. Kassian had 1 goal in 17 Canuck games, Hodgson had 3 goals in 20 Buffalo games but still finished the season with 41 points while Kassian had 10 points (in half as many games played, a 20-point pace). Traded Sulzer for Gragnani - Sure Gragnani may have some future potential but he has been brutal for the Canucks defensively and is barely contributing offensively. Meanwhile, Sulzer exploded with 3 goals and 8 points in 15 Sabre games and was a +2 on a brutal +/- team. Gragnani meanwhile finished with 1 goal, 3 points and a -4 in 14 games on a good plus-team. So basically it has been a season full of bad trades and non-signings all based on how we fared last season in the playoffs against a tougher opponent, and now that we've lost most of our skilled, talented offensive forwards and defencemen MG will have to look to inject some talent back into our now-physical lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrath_jason Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Traded Samuelsson for Booth is this one that sticks out in my mind the most. Booth is just a taller version of Mayray. ugh. Hodgson for Kassian is still an unknown at this point. I think the kid looks good, little more experience and he'll have 2nd line winger written all over him. But as of right now, yeah., he's bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguschrist69 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Good to see your really supporting the team heading into game 4 :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js604 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Don't forget Torres, who is a huge factor in the Coyotes right now. If we still had Erhoff, Torres, Samuelsson, and Hodgson (in addition to Phalsson)..... instead of Booth, Malhotra, Kassian, and Weise...... Our team would be absolutely unstoppable. Probably would have bulldozed over the Kings by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounoush Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Quit posting stupid new threads. You're embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 It's funny how you carefully omitted Cody Hodgsons +/- while he has been a Sabre in your trade analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonicator Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 As much as the Hodgson trade did not help this team, you have to take in account of the fact that our top 6 have been underachieving this season in terms of goal scoring. Booth was brought in to help Kesler out in the second line. It's pretty clear that those guys have no chemistry. A playmaking center is needed for that line and Kesler isn't the guy. We had one in Cody but seems like AV (or Kes) didn't want to go for that. IMO, that would have been the best solution for the second line. Face it, Kesler doesn't have many line mates that can play with him. Yes he's a Selke winner and defensively responsible but you need a player who has the playmaking abilities and vision to do that. Kesler isn't that kind of player. Besides, he has played wing before and had success with Sundin. It's an issue when your second line hasn't scored for more than 10 games in the last part of the season. It wasn't addressed. Now, why didn't they try Cody in center? Ask AV / Kesler. I would have loved Cody to stay but the problem is, there is no roster spot for him unless he plays wing. He can't play in that position. Edit: Point is, that trade for Kassian looks bad because our top 6 haven't improved their offense at all since the deadline. I'm not scratching Kassian off. He is a year younger than Cody and give him some time. Remember Hodgson was not a factor last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC_22 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Traded Hodgson for Kassian - Worst trade in the history of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 From the best coast in Oz I feel the need to chirp in also. Hodgson will not be the worst trade in Canucks history, but I am on record (over & over & over) hating on this trade. I called for MG's scalp the day of the trade. That was an over reaction, but the bloom is definitely off. And for more than just Hodgson, which was a devastating disappointment. I dont mind the Booth trade. Make no mistake, we miss Samuelsson & KESLER misses Sammy most. He was the guy who distributed the puck and knew what to do & when to compliment his linemates. But we scored a young, buff and hard player, who is not perhaps not as skilled but Sammy was also showing wear and tear. And we converted a UFA into serviceable player. Booth is not the problem in this exchange. Its the fact that we did not ALSO find a play maker to compliment he or his new line mate. Or work Hodgson onto that line when Pahlsson arrived. Sooner or later CoHo would have made Kess a man again... Pahlsson, was a good trade. Malhotra should have been offered a coaching job to retire him softly, as a reward for leadership and the sheer balls to give it a GO. But Pahlsson should have replaced Manny, not been the catalyst to sacrifice CoHo. And his salary would have allowed a rental on D with no other changes. Back to that D in a minute. 5 tryouts were unsuccessful in becoming the physical player MG knew he needed, when he did not re-sign Torres. Maybe there was under the surface issues with Torres; but we miss his bowling ball style of play who knocked over every pinhead opponent he came across. And he could nullify a Joe Thornton, Seabrook , or Iginla physically and even chip in a goal or two... I love Higgins, but he has a different role and cannot do THAT. Bitz might become that? But was not healthy (or reckless) enough... Having failed to replace Torres, was where MG bit into the pressure. And its what cost us Hodgson. Where we really bit it, was on defence. Well, I would have let Erhoff go. He was too expensive. And he did not want to be here, paying him would have been a mistake. And I would have signed Bieksa. I think he's ok value, possibly good value. But we would REALLY have missed Bieksa. What what he brings to the table he brings the most of it on our team. And we were already lacking exactly that even re-signing KB3. MG's largest failure by far was not signing a mobile, tough, BIG defender. I would have traded Hodgson for that, Bogosian? We have puck movers, guys who can score, position defenders (and Bieksa is tough, but a middleweight). But we dont have a smash mouth, hard core, stuff it in your face then haul the puck up the ice defender. That is what we are missing! Grossman & Gleason could have been had for a high price, but an affordable price considering value. Souray was available for a song. Hall Gill in a pinch... I still agree MG did not push the right buttons! And Kaasian SULKS! So now that the season's almost over I thought it'd be a good idea to dissect each one of MG's trades and how they panned out. I'm sure he had an idea and it's easy to look at with hindsight, but interesting nonetheless. Last season his acquisitions were perfectly suited to what this team needed in regards to Hamhuis, Ballard, Higgins and Lapierre and we went on to a very successful cup run. However, after losing to the Bruins, MG decided to bulk up our forwards and lose depth on defence, leading to these trades: Signing Marco Sturm - No points for the Canucks, was invisible in 6 games played. Let Ehrhoff walk, sign Bieksa instead - Bieksa scores more points than Ehrhoff but our powerplay really struggles. It's not about the individual, its about the team and this team needed Ehrhoff more than Bieksa. Anyone would form a shutdown pair with Hamhuis, but not many can replace Ehrhoff on the powerplay point and the Sedins' point totals took a hit as well. Traded Sturm for Reinprecht - Reinprecht hasn't even played a Canuck game so far so this is already a loss, as Sturm has at least scored some points for Florida. Traded Samuelsson for Booth - Made sense at the time to trade for more youth and a bigger, physical body, but look at what happened. We lost a key veteran and leadership guy on our team and our best playoff performer. We lost probably our best powerplay specialist and someone with chemistry with the twins AND Kesler, all 3 of whom struggled offensively without him. Booth had 16 goals (3 PPG) and 29 points (+1 on a great plus-minus team) in 56 Canuck games. Samuelsson had 13 goals (6 PPG) and 28 points (+2 on a terrible plus-minus team) in 48 Panther games. Quite simply, Samuelsson produced more offence than Booth and now he has 3 important assists in 2 playoff games while Booth has 0 points in 3 games. Traded for Pahlsson - A great signing, 2 goals and 6 points in 19 regular season games but that equates to about 10 goals, under 30 points in a full season which are great 4th line numbers or very average 3rd line center numbers. Great utility player so I'll call this trade a win, even if his pricetag is a bit steep. Traded Hodgson for Kassian - Worst trade in the history of the franchise. We had a 20-goal scoring, 40-point player on our 3rd line who was insurance for us in case we had an injury to our top-6, and guess what: now we do. MG didn't trade Schneider in case Luongo was injured, so he shouldn't of traded Hodgson in case one of the Sedins got injured and look what happened. Plus, he was a great powerplay producer and now our PP has gone quiet. Worst of all, our depth scoring has shrivelled up as we replace a 20-goal scorer in Hodgson with a 10-goal-pace scorer in Pahlsson who isn't as great a playmaker as Hodgson, hence affecting Hansen's production too. Meanwhile Kassian has been a 4th line player for us making terrible giveaways this playoffs and rarely hitting anyone. Kassian had 1 goal in 17 Canuck games, Hodgson had 3 goals in 20 Buffalo games but still finished the season with 41 points while Kassian had 10 points (in half as many games played, a 20-point pace). Traded Sulzer for Gragnani - Sure Gragnani may have some future potential but he has been brutal for the Canucks defensively and is barely contributing offensively. Meanwhile, Sulzer exploded with 3 goals and 8 points in 15 Sabre games and was a +2 on a brutal +/- team. Gragnani meanwhile finished with 1 goal, 3 points and a -4 in 14 games on a good plus-team. So basically it has been a season full of bad trades and non-signings all based on how we fared last season in the playoffs against a tougher opponent, and now that we've lost most of our skilled, talented offensive forwards and defencemen MG will have to look to inject some talent back into our now-physical lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{nhl} Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Signing of sturm -yes it was a mistake but he got rid of him so it is like nothing ever happened. Let Ehrhoff walk to sign Bieksa -It is obvious we could have only kept one of these 2 defenceman. So you may have a preference of Ehrhoff over Bieksa, but that is just a matter of opinion. Others could easily argue bieksa's toughness, his production this year, and him being rather clutch in the playoffs. Maybe not these playoffs but it wouldn't be fair to judge him since the team as a whole is underachieving. Not to mention that he is a big leader on this team while Ehrhoff was more of an asset. Also, look at bieksa's vs ehrhoff's contract. Ehrhoff's contract is way longer while Bieksa's is a lot more reasonable. So letting Ehrhoff go is rather an invalid criticism since on of the defenseman had to go and there is no proof Ehrhoff is better than Bieksa. They are both good D-men and everyone will have their own opinion on who is better. Sturm for Reinprect -this is where you start looking biased. We didn't want Sturm. You said so yourself there was no point in signing him. Now you are arguing he at least had a couple points in Florida. Just be glad we got rip of him. Pretend nothing happened. And yes Reinprecht didn't play but he would have if we had injuries. Plus obviously there was cap to deal with and the main player we were trying to get was Booth. So again, it is not like we wanted sturm anywhere in our line up so how again was this a bad move? Because Reinprecht didn't play? Pssh next Sameulsson for Booth -We got a young hard hitting player entering his prime for an older injury prone forward who is in the final say 5 years of his career and you are complaining?? Yes Sameulsson may have had chemistry with the twins and Kesler but you can't expect Booth to start playing well right away in his first season on a totally different team with different linemates. I much prefer Booth to Sameulsson. He hits hard, creates chances (that he doesn't always finish but hopefully that will pick up next season), and is reliable to be healthy. As for saying Samuelsson was our playoff star, he did nothing for us in last playoffs. He played 11 games and got 1 goal. Then he got injured again. Booth IMO has been one of the positives out of our offence this post season. He has played played well and i guess you can call him one of the playoff performers on our team in this series. This was 100% a win for the canucks. If you don't think so you are either trolling or traumatized from is most likely being kicked out of the first round this year. Pahlsson -good Kassian for Hodgson - You simply can't judge this trade. If we made this trade in the beginning of the season before Kassian played his first season and before Hodgson transitioned into and NHL player, I guarentee a very small minority would have a problem with this trade. So my point is that you just can't judge a rookie in the beginning of his career. He obviously has potential. He has been able to put up points in lower leagues and he has displayed his speed and hands for a big guy. He hasn't been consistent but what do you expect, this was his first season. Look at Hodgson's first season. So yes, maybe this trade wasn't good for us in these playoffs but to say this was the worst trade in our franchise history is ridiculous. You will know in a year or 2 if the trade was good or not. It could be the worst trade in history but as of now, you can't say Jack squat. Can't say anything about Gillis on this trade just yet. Sulzer for Gragnani - I hope you are joking. You must have thought the Grabner trade was a catastrophe after he went on a scoring rampage too but abandoned that thought when he came back to earth. Don't worry Sulzer will come back to earth too. There are no signs that Sulzer will become a top 4 D-man in the NHL or that he will be able to keep a roster spot in the nhl. It was just another brief streak of confidence and lucky bounces, I hardly doubt it will grow into something more. While Gragnani has potential to become a threatening offensive D-man in the NHL however obviously he needs to still develop on his defensive game and learning to make better pinches. So claiming this was a better trade off for buffalo because sulzer has put up 8 pts is ridiculous. See how many points he puts up next year and come back talk to me. MG built a contender and even though we most likely will be getting kicked out first round, we still have a good team. For whatever reason, Canucks have struggled at the end of the season and that carried on into the post season. Maybe the team simply lacked motivation at the end of the season and then underestimated LA while they came prepared. Who knows. The sky isn't falling. I am confident in our GM. Hopefully we can get a large return for Schneider next year and build on what is already a great team. As for the fans however, maybe if we missed a couple postseasons and ended at the bottom of the league for a couple seasons, you guys would learn to appreciate what MG has done for this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmylu1 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 coho asked for the trade mike gillis isnt a moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksgyal Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 MG messed up this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkyway Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Why did Gillis go for Kassian? Did he forget he already had three top right wingers? Where's the guy going to play? Did he forget he drafted Jensen? - Is he going to beat out Burrows? Booth? Hansen? - I don't even begin to get that trade; one of the worst ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{nhl} Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Why did Gillis go for Kassian? Did he forget he already had three top right wingers? Where's the guy going to play? Did he forget he drafted Jensen? - Is he going to beat out Burrows? Booth? Hansen? - I don't even begin to get that trade; one of the worst ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dogg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Gillis was pulling the Hodgson for Kassian trade. What was he thinking? It made no sense at the time, and it obviously makes no sense right now. If you want someone that can bang and crash, and once in a while chip in with a goal then why did you let Torres walk? He's a beast! Hodgson provided something that this team desperately requires, SECONDARY SCORING... it's painfully obvious now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thank you Mike Gillis for low-balling Willie Mitchell so he'd be forced to leave his home town team! Thank you for replacing the best defenceman in this series with Aaron Rome, Andrew Alberts and Keith Ballard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keslerian one Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Traded Samuelsson for Booth is this one that sticks out in my mind the most. Booth is just a taller version of Mayray. ugh. Hodgson for Kassian is still an unknown at this point. I think the kid looks good, little more experience and he'll have 2nd line winger written all over him. But as of right now, yeah., he's bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lui's Knob Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Gillis wanted to be bold and take risks.... Well that utterly failed a d now we have no major who depth to do anything for next couple years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckRow Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I don't get how people don't realize the Hodgson trade had to happen. The kid asked for a trade and you don't want someone like that in your locker room while going for a cup run. Simple as that. Get over it, Cody is a little b%$#h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckRow Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thank you Mike Gillis for low-balling Willie Mitchell so he'd be forced to leave his home town team! Thank you for replacing the best defenceman in this series with Aaron Rome, Andrew Alberts and Keith Ballard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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