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Assessing Mg's Trades At The End Of The Season


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#31 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:02 AM

MG should have re-signed Torres. I thought Torres played really well last year to warrant a contract extension. He was a pit-bull. Would have looked great on the 3rd or 4th line.

I didn't care about Glass cuz Weise was doing a good job replacing him.

Didn't like the Sturm signing but it translated to getting Booth. So that was OK.

I was happy with the Booth trade since we got younger while off-loading older veterans scheduled to become UFA. Unfortunately Booth has no chemistry with Kesler. But he did have some with Hodgson at the beginning when Kesler was still out. Really wished they did a Booth-Hodgson-Kesler line but that never happened.

Didn't really think Ehrhoff was worth what he wanted. So didn't care that he left.

Thought Sulzer was a good pickup as a depth defensiveman.

I was happy with Pahlsson trade. Gave up picks to get a quality veteran with great faceoff % and pk abilities. Really to bolster our pk and defensive draws.

I was really unhappy to see Hodgson traded for basically prospects. Hodgson was proving himself to be a legit centre. He needed to get better at faceoffs though. We traded away our 4th leading scorer. As some would say, he only got it cuz he had sheltered minutes. So what?!? He was STILL SCORING!!! And we can clearly see the Nucks can't even buy a goal.

I said it before...Nucks didn't lose the Stanley Cup last year because they weren't tough enough. They lost because they couldn't score. 8 goals in 7 games of Stanley Cup finals didn't cut it last year. And 4 goals in 3 games of LA series isn't going to cut it this year.



#32 stuffradio

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:03 AM

Traded Samuelsson for Booth is this one that sticks out in my mind the most. Booth is just a taller version of Mayray. ugh.

Hodgson for Kassian is still an unknown at this point. I think the kid looks good, little more experience and he'll have 2nd line winger written all over him. But as of right now, yeah., he's bust.

Booth has better production than MayRay, and drives hard to the net. MayRay has speed, but he doesn't exactly drive to the net.

#33 tan

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:04 AM

So now that the season's almost over I thought it'd be a good idea to dissect each one of MG's trades and how they panned out. I'm sure he had an idea and it's easy to look at with hindsight, but interesting nonetheless. Last season his acquisitions were perfectly suited to what this team needed in regards to Hamhuis, Ballard, Higgins and Lapierre and we went on to a very successful cup run.

However, after losing to the Bruins, MG decided to bulk up our forwards and lose depth on defence, leading to these trades:

Signing Marco Sturm - No points for the Canucks, was invisible in 6 games played.

Let Ehrhoff walk, sign Bieksa instead - Bieksa scores more points than Ehrhoff but our powerplay really struggles. It's not about the individual, its about the team and this team needed Ehrhoff more than Bieksa. Anyone would form a shutdown pair with Hamhuis, but not many can replace Ehrhoff on the powerplay point and the Sedins' point totals took a hit as well.

Traded Sturm for Reinprecht - Reinprecht hasn't even played a Canuck game so far so this is already a loss, as Sturm has at least scored some points for Florida.

Traded Samuelsson for Booth - Made sense at the time to trade for more youth and a bigger, physical body, but look at what happened. We lost a key veteran and leadership guy on our team and our best playoff performer. We lost probably our best powerplay specialist and someone with chemistry with the twins AND Kesler, all 3 of whom struggled offensively without him.

Gee....
Samuelsson is 6'.2"
Booth is 6'
How the xxxx booth is bigger or somebody called power forward....



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#34 Cindilette

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:07 AM

Isn't Samuelsson going to be UFA this offseason coming up? If so, I want MG to sign him back.

#35 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:11 AM

A couple of things:I don't agree with your take that we traded Sturm for Reinprecht. The actual trade was Sturm and Samuelsson for Booth. Reinprecht was a throw in that we had to take, because Florida wanted to dump salary.

We absolutely had to let Ehrhoff "walk". 4 million looks like a decent Cap hit right now, but in a few years it's going to look brutal.

I agree that the Coho for Kassian trade was a mistake. Cody may have wanted out, but I believe this deal could easily have been made in the summer. I think Gillis was hoping ZK would step up and contribute far more than he currently is.
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#36 Conscience

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:19 AM

coho asked for the trade mike gillis isnt a moron


AV's a moron for pissing Cody off, Everyone on here could see that Cody was being missused, with his linemates and ice time. Still Cody should've stuck through it and not asked for a trade, but you cant blame him. Pahlson still could have centered the 3rd line, with Cody centering Kesler and Booth, giving those 2 a playmaker.
And if it was absolutling nessecary to trade Hodgson, get an impact player back or at least wait until the offseason. Instead we traded for Kassian who is not an impact player, 3 mins a night. I agree we needed toughness but for the cost of our promising young center, come on.
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#37 Aladeen

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:22 AM

Hated the Kassian - CoHo trade from the begining, and hate it even more now. I hope this spells the end of AV even though it won't. Its obvious other teams have figured out his system and he has zero ability to adapt. As well as getting all personal about CoHo wanting more icetime. Imagine a player playing well wanting more ice time, the nerve of it all.

ZK is beyond useless out there and I feel at this point he is a waste of a roster spot. Maybe 3 or 4 years from now he will develop into something but I feel that a Penner type player will be his upper ceiling.

MG shat the bed this season with this trade. If he had traded CoHo for Nash or Doan, or Brown or some established power forward rental I would have hated it but at least understood that he was trying to win now, but when I heard ZK was traded for him I really thought it was a joke.

I do believe the Canucks can get back in this series but, I really feel they wouldn't have had to if CoHo-ZK trade was never done.
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#38 Special Ed

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:26 AM

For those saying Cody asked for a trade sooooo what. If Cody did ask then why? Maybe he had a good reason. The Canucks thought they didn't need Cody and were cocky. Now look at where we are at. Early first round exit one year after going to the finals.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#39 Lockhart

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:28 AM

If the asking price for Steve Ott was Raymond + a 1st, that was obviously a mistake not doing it.

#40 k_man08

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

I won't argue that this trade was bad for this year as we definitely could have used his secondary scoring. Also, I do believe Kassian was brought in as a project. I know we are trying to win a cup but you also have to think of the future of the team. I remember when Ohlund's contract was ending and I was arguing with a buddy that they should trade him at the deadline while he was all against it because "we are trying to win a cup". I don't remember if we were kicked out first or second round that year, anyways, we could have invested into the future but we lost ohlund for nothing. So I do think that this was a more of an investment into the future of the team rather than a push for the cup this season. Hodgson had no business playing on the 3rd center line and we got back a prospect that has potential to become a top 6. How often can you get your hands on a prospect like that. If Kassian developed like Hodgson, there is no way this trade would have gone down.

Now as for the timing of the trade and why they didn't make this trade after this post season. IMO the reason they wanted to do this trade before the trade deadline was to give Kassian a jump start on his development on a a good team and introduce him to playoff hockey. If this trade happened during the offseason, Kassian would most likely have been as unproductive in the 12/13 season as he was this season. He was in the Buffalo dog house and that was definitely not doing his development any good. Maybe joining our team now is what he needed to have a good start next season. Having Hodgson for the Cup run must have done something for him in becoming the player he is now.

So I understand why some people may be angry that this trade didn't reward us immediately. However, ask yourself if you really think Hodgson would have got the canucks past LA. I have a hard time believing he would. Canucks got in some sort of funk in the end of the season and it carried on into the post season where LA had our number and played us perfectly.

This trade is high risk, high reward. It could become a complete bust or it could become a great trade for the canucks. All I ask is to wait before you judge this trade. Give it a season or 2 before you start calling it the worst trade in canucks history. I understand where you are coming from, I just don't think it is fair to judge just yet.


Development doesn't mean playing 4 minutes on the 4th line. It means playing 20 minutes in pressure situations. He is getting plugger minutes. Why not send him down and let him season with AHL? If we need pluggers, we got Bitz, weise, Ebbett.

As for Hodgson playing 3rd line center... He can also play wing on second line, or center second line and move Kesler to the wing. There are always options that AV didn't explore properly. Mayray, DOES NOT deserve top line minutes.

As for your question - answer is I don't know. and thanks to the trade i will never know.
Hodgson would have contributed MORE than kassian based on his regular season. He was skating more, had scored some very clutch goals against top teams he played against, and he was always well positioned ... not to mention his PP contribution.

I am sick of CDC touting the kassian project as being a good move. You know what would have been a good move? trading a pick for and raymond for a 4th liner like moen and keeping Hodgson so he can not only center second line but play wing on the top 6 when we need him now.

Because of this trade, we had to see Lapierre play second line in game 1, and see mayray and booth (both with all speed, no scoring touch) play on top 6.

Worse part is.. if we falter tomorrow night, AV may still be back and I ABSOLUTELY HATE THIS GUY


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#41 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

This is about as useful and correct as your thread on the Anaheim Ducks 'running away' with the President's trophy last year.

#42 NHLVancouverCanucksFan

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Give it time, like what A/V did with Hodgson, do the same with Kassian.

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#43 timberz21

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

Sturm or no sturm - make no difference.

Booth - Sammy - Hasn't worked out, but seriously every GM would make that trade 100 time. No one could of predicted that.

Kassian - Hodgson - Where would Hodgson go with Palhsson In?? Plus not like Hodgson would have carried this team on his back. Without Daniel he would have been even more exposed. He played limited minutes against good matchup.


Sulzer wouldn't have a played a game in the playoff, so no point



Sedin, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler should have been enough to get us past the Kings. Then the supporting player are the one that need to play well to make it to the end.

Edited by timberz21, 16 April 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#44 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:43 AM

Signing Marco Sturm - No points for the Canucks, was invisible in 6 games played.

Let Ehrhoff walk, sign Bieksa instead - Bieksa scores more points than Ehrhoff but our powerplay really struggles. It's not about the individual, its about the team and this team needed Ehrhoff more than Bieksa. Anyone would form a shutdown pair with Hamhuis, but not many can replace Ehrhoff on the powerplay point and the Sedins' point totals took a hit as well.

Traded Sturm for Reinprecht - Reinprecht hasn't even played a Canuck game so far so this is already a loss, as Sturm has at least scored some points for Florida.

Traded Samuelsson for Booth - Made sense at the time to trade for more youth and a bigger, physical body, but look at what happened. We lost a key veteran and leadership guy on our team and our best playoff performer. We lost probably our best powerplay specialist and someone with chemistry with the twins AND Kesler, all 3 of whom struggled offensively without him.

Booth had 16 goals (3 PPG) and 29 points (+1 on a great plus-minus team) in 56 Canuck games.
Samuelsson had 13 goals (6 PPG) and 28 points (+2 on a terrible plus-minus team) in 48 Panther games.

Quite simply, Samuelsson produced more offence than Booth and now he has 3 important assists in 2 playoff games while Booth has 0 points in 3 games.

Traded for Pahlsson - A great signing, 2 goals and 6 points in 19 regular season games but that equates to about 10 goals, under 30 points in a full season which are great 4th line numbers or very average 3rd line center numbers. Great utility player so I'll call this trade a win, even if his pricetag is a bit steep.

Traded Hodgson for Kassian - Worst trade in the history of the franchise. We had a 20-goal scoring, 40-point player on our 3rd line who was insurance for us in case we had an injury to our top-6, and guess what: now we do. MG didn't trade Schneider in case Luongo was injured, so he shouldn't of traded Hodgson in case one of the Sedins got injured and look what happened. Plus, he was a great powerplay producer and now our PP has gone quiet. Worst of all, our depth scoring has shrivelled up as we replace a 20-goal scorer in Hodgson with a 10-goal-pace scorer in Pahlsson who isn't as great a playmaker as Hodgson, hence affecting Hansen's production too.

Meanwhile Kassian has been a 4th line player for us making terrible giveaways this playoffs and rarely hitting anyone.

Kassian had 1 goal in 17 Canuck games, Hodgson had 3 goals in 20 Buffalo games but still finished the season with 41 points while Kassian had 10 points (in half as many games played, a 20-point pace).

Traded Sulzer for Gragnani - Sure Gragnani may have some future potential but he has been brutal for the Canucks defensively and is barely contributing offensively. Meanwhile, Sulzer exploded with 3 goals and 8 points in 15 Sabre games and was a +2 on a brutal +/- team. Gragnani meanwhile finished with 1 goal, 3 points and a -4 in 14 games on a good plus-team.


So basically it has been a season full of bad trades and non-signings all based on how we fared last season in the playoffs against a tougher opponent, and now that we've lost most of our skilled, talented offensive forwards and defencemen MG will have to look to inject some talent back into our now-physical lineup.


This team did not need Ehrhoff more than Bieksa. The PP was number 1 most of the season without Ehrhoff. Ehrhoff doesn't/didn't have chemistry with Hamhuis. Bieksa is a big character on this team and is always there for his teammates. I bet you've never played hockey before, because you clearly don't understand that. Remember his relationship with Rypien (RIP)? He's a great guy and you need great guys to win. And let's not forget the fact that Ehrhoff was offered the SAME contract but rejected it. GMMG wanted both, but he wants players to stay here only if they are here to win. Guess where Ehrhoff is now after accepting his giant contract? Yeah. Golfing.

The trade wasn't individually "Sturm for Reinprecht" and "Samuelsson for Booth". Are you confused or do you just make up facts to suit your argument? It wouldn't be a loss anyway. Sturm has like 5 points on the season and would take up a roster spot if he played games for the Canucks. Reinprecht didn't take up any cap and was a huge help for the Wolves. Maybe you don't understand player development either. I guess Mike Keane and Nolan Baumgartner were stupid to keep...

Samuelsson may have produced more points than Booth at this point, but let's not forget some of last year's playoffs where he had 3 points in 11 games and the beginning of this season where he forgot to play defense. Booth's physicality in this series has also been one of the few bright spots. Just because Sammy has a couple of points against Brodeur, doesn't mean he'd have them against Quick. They're not the same, just so you know.

Not to mention GMMG also got a 3rd rounder in that trade.

Samuel Pahlsson has been very very solid.

Once again the Hodgson and Gragnani trades were not seperate. It will not be the worst trade in Canucks history & Cody's camp wanted out. You can't have player agents coming up to the coach and demanding more minutes. Kassian is a year younger than Cody and is showing a similar route of development. He hasn't been giving away the puck a lot, he just had one bad giveaway. It's AV's choice that Kassian plays 5 minutes a game, not Kassian. It wasn't as simple as "hey, let's keep Cody", if a player doesn't want to be there, there's no rationale in keeping him. Go back to EA Sports NHL 99 if you actually believe that.

Thanks for some good rubbish though.

#45 Dr.G

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:49 AM

I don't get how people don't realize the Hodgson trade had to happen. The kid asked for a trade and you don't want someone like that in your locker room while going for a cup run. Simple as that. Get over it, Cody is a little b%$#h


You're telling me, that the offer for Hodgson was the BEST we could have got for him?? Pleeeaasee.

#46 Lockhart

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

You're telling me, that the offer for Hodgson was the BEST we could have got for him?? Pleeeaasee.


Yep, I remember them saying on TSN that one GM was pissed because he really wanted Hodgson but didn't know that he was available and that he talked with MG about him before.

#47 Pineapples

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

I remember being one of the only people on here actually sad when Samuelsson left. Sure, it was exciting at the time that we got Booth, but not at the price of Samuelsson.

The only thing I disagree with you here is the signing of Bieksa. I think it was a good move still, he just needs to learn not to be too fancy.

But I agree, MG screwed up real bad. Time for a new GM.

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#48 Lockhart

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:44 AM

^ MG isn't a bad GM, his strength (not overpaying for players) can also be his weakness. We really need a player like Chris Neil or Steve Ott..... those players are rare. Bitz isn't as good as either of them and Kassian isn't even NHL ready IMO.

Sometimes to get a player that we need and 29 other teams need you have to overpay.

It isn't Gillis' fault that players aren't performing like they should.

#49 Bodee

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:05 AM

The one thing I agree with is the Sammy trade.

If we had put CoHo between Sammy and Kes we would not have had Booth's big salary and we could have used the Booth cap AND the Sammy salary to negotiate for someone who actually does more than bang into people and skate down blind alleys.

However he is ours now and I think we CAN turn him into a useful player if we teach him to get his head up and pass EARLY and then go to the net. He also needs to stop puck watching and mark his man in our zone much tighter.
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#50 timmylu1

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:18 PM

AV's a moron for pissing Cody off, Everyone on here could see that Cody was being missused, with his linemates and ice time. Still Cody should've stuck through it and not asked for a trade, but you cant blame him. Pahlson still could have centered the 3rd line, with Cody centering Kesler and Booth, giving those 2 a playmaker.
And if it was absolutling nessecary to trade Hodgson, get an impact player back or at least wait until the offseason. Instead we traded for Kassian who is not an impact player, 3 mins a night. I agree we needed toughness but for the cost of our promising young center, come on.

you dont ask for more ice time in your rookie year thats being arrogant

#51 Sanford

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:18 PM

Fire Mike!
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#52 Tru_Knyte

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

The problem with the team this year is a lack of identity. In the years prior MG preached about speed and skill winning games. This year he tried to toughen up the team but in doing so created something that is halfway between skill and grit, but not fully successful in either. As a result, we have a team that is on the whole weaker.
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#53 Lockhart

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:33 PM

The problem with the team this year is a lack of identity. In the years prior MG preached about speed and skill winning games. This year he tried to toughen up the team but in doing so created something that is halfway between skill and grit, but not fully successful in either. As a result, we have a team that is on the whole weaker.


We are faster this year......

#54 skyfall

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:46 PM

When I think of the Kassian trade I think politics. I wouldn't say that MG wanted to sabatoge the team but he had to pick player vs coach and picked coach. Using the cards of internal conflict, young players taking a while to develop and need for physical and defensive responsibility it could be justifiable for MG.

It also gave AV what he wanted. Kassian is an AV type of player: gritty, fast enough to forecheck and go on D and will listen blindly to the coach without questioning things. If AV gets the players he wants and fails then he's gone. I think MG is setting himself up for next year to restructure the team with a new coach and trading chip in Schneider.

Really I think the team wants to trade for a sick offensive player and/or stud defenseman next year. Either they win the cup or they bring in a coach that plays a more dynamic, intuitive system based in flow and maximizing abilities.

When I think about it hodgson is slow and although for this team was considered a good offensive player, he's not the ideal offensive player. The ideal player would be faster and that can be addressed next year. However to have a pure offensive player buried on a third line would be a waste and demoralizing.

I think MG knows what he's doing

#55 oldnews

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:06 PM

Yep, I remember them saying on TSN that one GM was pissed because he really wanted Hodgson but didn't know that he was available and that he talked with MG about him before.


A non-issue - Burke angry that the couldn't pawn off utra-disappointing Schenn. Sorry Leafs - you had no Kassian to offer.
The more I hear people whine about the Hodgson trade, the happier I am that he is gone.

#56 DreamHerO

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:56 PM

coho asked for the trade mike gillis isnt a moron

RIGHHTTT HOOOKAAAYYYY
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#57 timmylu1

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:31 AM

RIGHHTTT HOOOKAAAYYYY

im sorry did i stutter




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