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hockeynoob

Lets Clear Some Things Up

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I think doing a firesale of the core would be utterly senseless. If they fail next year, then consider moving the core around. But this year? No f*cking way

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Im so tired of that argument that were just gonna have to agree to disagree i guess.

The Kings entire 4th line cost 1.9m

Malhotra is getting paid 2.5m to take faceoffs.

Nolan and King are both rookies, they dont have the 'intangibles' that Malhotra supposedly has but they seem to be doing fine.

Like i've said before, look at all the Top contenders this year (NYR,PHI,NSH,DET etc.) tell me ONE team that has a one dimensional player making 2.5m.. just one team and ill rest my case.

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Kassian trade = gillies getting fired

Honestly I don't care what people say about kassian him being good in the next 2-3 years, what's gonna happen in the next 2-3 to the team we can't even imagine. We needed help in playoffs this year, since we had a window of opportunity, why gillies didn't trade Hodgson in the off season is beyond me and for the very same reason he should get fired.

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I agree with the op with the exception of getting rid of Manny. Should he go? Maybe. There are other players who have stepped up to fill his role.

The problem is twofold:

1. He has a NTC.

2. Sadly, he is damaged goods. What team would really want him?

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i think u forgot something

9.) Raymond Sucks and should not be Re-signed: No further comments needed.

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Hodgson honestly would not have made much a difference in this series. Would he have helped out the offense? Yes. Would he have been nice to slot in in the second PP unit? Yes.

But in the grand scheme of things, it honestly would not have made any difference in the prediciment the Canucks find themselves in right now. Like it or not, Hodgson was a defensive liability, and in the playoffs, AV clearly doesnt trust players who are a question mark in the D-zone. He really wouldnt have gotten much ice time to begin with - especially with this team. Not to mention Hodgson was a bit of a cancer in the dressing room. The Canucks problem is the fact that their top players arent producing. If Edler keeps playing like this and if Kesler and Hank cant generate anything, we're still down in the series, with or without Cody.

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I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.

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1. Kassian trade was a fail. We wanted to get the damn cup, giving a 30 points forward up for a prospect that didn't contribute much is just a fail. If MG thinks that they need Kassian's body, MG could easily dealt Mayray over for Kassian. The kassian trade could be make in off season, then during the playoff rush we could use Coho's offensive skills. But look at us now, we have Kassian that have TOI of 3 minutes. Its not a bad trade but fail at the timing part

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I've only been watching Hockey for a couple of years, but some people are talking crazy on these boards. So even with limited knowledge, I thought I'd try to clear some things up:

1) Kassian was not a failed trade: The Kassian trade was a long term investment. Kassian is a year younger than Hodgson, and is also on a very short leash. Putting Kassian on a leash is like telling Hodgson not to score goals. It's stopping him from what he does best. Furthermore, Hodgson ASKED to be traded. You can't keep a guy around for very long if he doesn't even want to be on your team. There are even rumors that he was causing problems in the locker room, and apparently Bieksa had to sit down and have a chat with him at one point. So anyone saying that Hodgson was the future of our franchise has to give their head a shake. Sure he didn't make a huge difference this year, but we had to let Hodgson go (how do you keep a guy around that doesnt want to be around).

2) Mike Gillis should NOT be fired: The trades Mike Gillis made this year, in hindsight, have been mediocre. But back when they were being made most people thought that they were great trades. The Booth trade was considered to be an absolute STEAL for Mike Gillis. Most analysts were saying that after we acquired Kassian and Pahlsson we were more fit for a cup run. He has signed a lot of players at great prices, and IMHO has recovered from the mistakes he's made.

3) Ryan Kesler had a bad season for a reason: I was talking to my doctor who is a huge hockey fan. He said that what players do over the summer is bulk up. They gain a lot of weight and then casually lose it over the season. Kesler, due to his injury, was unable to do this. He couldn't bulk up and couldnt practice in the preseason. Remember that in the previous offseason he practiced 100 slapshots, 100 wrist shots, and 100 backhands every day, and he couldn't do that this offseason (that's an insane amount of shots). Moreover, Kesler had to play a more defensive role this season, due to Hodgson being a, lets face it, defensive liability. Last year, the third line was our shutdown line. This year, the third line was a scoring line, leaving some of the defense to the second line. Sure, after Hodgson was traded his scoring was still abysmal, but give the guy some time. Don't jump the gun and trade him, only to watch him win a cup with another team.

4) Edler should NOT be traded: Prior to this series, in which Edler was ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL, Edler was seen as a future Norris contender and the future defenseman of this franchise. Saying that he should be traded is absolute crap. His poor play was a confidence issue which only snowballed throughout the series. To me, that is a coaching issue. People point to Edler's lack of power play production, but NO ONE on the power play has been productive. The guy has one of the hardest slapshots in the league, and has always been seen as a top prospect. Give him time. This is like the Bieksa thing all over again. Now imagine if we traded Bieksa just because fans had their panties in a knot?

5) Not signing Ehrhoff was the RIGHT choice: People say we should have signed Ehrhoff instead of Bieksa. That's bullsh*t. Ehrhoff was a defensive liability, and after last years playoffs a lot of people even wanted him traded. Sure he's missed on the power play. But the fact is that he wanted WAY too much, and couldnt have signed him even if we wanted to and let Bieksa go. There's no way we could have justified paying the guy that much. It would be another Luongo contract all over again.

6) The LA Kings are NOT a bad team: they have lost a tonne of games by 1 goal this season. Since acquiring Carter (?) their goals per game have risen dramatically. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if they had Carter all season long they would be at the top of their division, and be a very very strong team. Hell, they were picked by some to be conference final favourites this season. (However, we still should have beat them, but losing to them isn't like losing to a regular 8th seed)

7) I think AV has to go: He's a great coach. I love the guy. He's a jack adams winner, and has led us to the Stanley Cup Final. But if we get swept, I think a message has to be sent throughout the organization and AV has to be fired. He has been massively outcoached this series, and has been outcoached in other series as well. He failed to make necessary adjustments, and unfortunately, if we get swept, I think AVs time is up. A team as talented as the Canucks should go further than the third round. HOWEVER, if we don't get swept, I think we should keep him until the beginning of next season, and see how things go. If they don't go fairly well, then change things up. But sometimes a coaching changeup sends a message to the players that this organization won't stand for mediocre play.

8) Manny has to go: I love Manny. He's a great guy and a great leader. It is INCREDIBLY unfortunate that he had to have that accident with his eye. Unfortunately he is getting paid WAY too much just for faceoff duty, and his overall play isn't nearly as good as it used to be. We have Pahlsson and Lapierre that can both do that. I know he has a NTC, but I'm sure he would waive it if asked, and I'm sure he would understand. Sure, he is a great locker room guy, but in our 'player led' locker room, where players call out other guys for mediocre play, how can Manny call someone else out if he's not playing well himself? (that goes for a lot of guys on the Canucks actually)

Now go ahead and flame me with your CDC insanity, I just feel this had to be said.

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Kassian trade = gillies getting fired

Honestly I don't care what people say about kassian him being good in the next 2-3 years, what's gonna happen in the next 2-3 to the team we can't even imagine. We needed help in playoffs this year, since we had a window of opportunity, why gillies didn't trade Hodgson in the off season is beyond me and for the very same reason he should get fired.

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The problem with this series is simple, they succeeded in the last month and last 10 games of the season in particular by playing just well enough to win. Often during that period they were inches away from giving up goals that were prevented by last second individual efforts, great goaltending and fortunate bounces.

They were playing below average teams winding up for the season and they were playing barely well enough to win the Presidents' Trophy and they carried that style of play into games 1 and 2. LA started playing playoff hockey in game 1 and the rest is history. If they could've pulled it off last night then I would've been confident but now they have no room for error.

So from that perspective I blame the coaches and the players for not getting ready for playoff hockey.

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Duncan Keith addressed two of the Canucks problems very well for this playoff series vs. the kings the last game we played Chicago. One he knocked out Daniel Sedin. Two as Kassian skated by Keith to talk to him about the hit Keith told him straight up what he thought about the Hodgson trade. "Wow you've been a great improvment for the Canucks since the trade." Sedin out and trading Hodgson are two of the biggest factors we arnt scoring. Gillis needs a wake up call for this trade. Still believing go Canucks!!

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I already said that for his play (as of this year), his salary is too high. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's an expendable player. Our bottom 6 is much better than LA's though.

And Malhotra isn't a one dimensional player. He's a very effective defensive forward. His injury may have thrown him off his game, but I see improvement compared to the beginning of the season. If you watch carefully, there are little things that he does that makes him strong defensively.

I'd prefer Manny over a lot of other teams' 4th liners, though his contract is too high. I'd say that the only team with a better 4th line would be Philly and maybe Detroit.

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1) The Kassian deal was a failed trade no matter how anyone wants to put their little spin on it. We traded a Calder candidate right before the playoffs for a kid who is easily 1-2 years away minimum. The trade ruined our PP unit, shook up our lines and was not very well accepted by the team. Take the homer goggles off. Oh and Cody didn't ask for the trade, his father did. The rumours about his attitude in the locker room are just that, rumours. I worked for the Canucks for 3 years and never once heard anything about this. You sir are are as wrong as your comment that a 40+pt Calder candidate does not make a huge difference.

2) I agree he should not be fired. However, he damn sure better realise that his head will roll if another trade gets made that doesn't clearly benefit the team like the Ehrhoff deal did. Gillis had a fairly poor year as the GM of our team this season and the trades made are evident enough.

3) Kesler's season was definitely due in part to his surgery. However, that does not exempt him from his piss poor attitude and his diving. Please find a medical excuse for being a mouthy little cry baby and then I will forgive Kesler for his antics.

4)I'm with you on this one, you don't move a 25 year old stud blue liner over one bad series. Even Lidstrom has had a bad series here and there.

5) Ehrhoff was not as big of a defensive liability as you are making him out to be but keeping Bieksa over him was the right move to do. It was a less expensive option, for a player who had ability to be great offensively and defensively and Bieksa was a guy who WANTED to be here and whom was loved in the locker room. Hank might wear the C but I think Bieksa's voice probably gets the most respect in the locker room. After you're around the guy for awhile you can just feel the energy and power he brings into the room.

6) They are the most underrated team going into the playoffs, damn straight Vancouver underestimated them.

7)AV has bugged me at times with his choices and I still wonder about his ability to answer to the trap defence but I think firing the guy after bringing us the most success we've ever seen is not the right way to go. I would look at replacing some of the assistant coaches for sure though. I also can't help but wonder what this team looks like with MacT behind the bench. There are only two people I would fire AV for and they are both not happening (Scotty Bowman and Ken Hitchcock).

8)Yup, get rid of him. He is replaceable and too expensive.

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To say he was a Calder Candidate is just plain misinformed. He was rookie of the month for ONE month, and then barely scored the next one. At most he's on the fringes of a Calder Candidate with no shot at winning.

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I agree with all but two points you've made

Av stays his coaching staff needs to go with the exception of Bowness Av relies too heavily on his coaching staff.

Manny stays.

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i think u forgot something

9.) Raymond Sucks and should not be Re-signed: No further comments needed.

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Like? could you go into specifics? I watch him very closely, I'm not hating on him for the sake of criticism. I see a guy who is great at faceoffs but scambles and panics during 5 on 5 play. Last night was a perfect example, a simple clear, he panics and ends up in the back of the net.

He's been a non factor to this team the whole year, now that the games are bigger his lack of skills other than faceoffs is being exposed.

The Kings 4th line so far has owned ours, if Malhotra is this superior 4th line player, why is that line always spending their shifts in our defensive zone when all their zone starts are in the Offensive zones?

He rarely throws hits, he doesnt block shots (cant blame him) What exactly makes him a superior 4th line player that you would take him over all the other 4th liners in the leauge?

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