Linden For Gm

[Smashian Kassian]

My stance is that those classy players may have character qualities - but not enough to win. Plus, the guys around them have character problems which only hamper the team's image and overall success (that is different from honest toughness from guys like Gino). Being dirty doesn't win you the Cup, neither does being classy, or having skill. Character is what separates winners from losers.

Gretzky didn't win four cups by being the most skilled player. He did so by being the ultimate character player - without it, he wouldn't have won one Cup nor would he have 2857 points at the end of the day. Bossy wouldn't have been the great goal scorer he was without his character. Stevens, for all his toughness, knew how to play with character (and understood when not to cross the lines), and won three Cups.

We don't have character? Are you serious? This team is loaded with character.

[thema]

We don't have character? Are you serious? This team is loaded with character.

If you mean "characters" then I agree with you.

[Baggins]

Well, surprisingly this trade is turning out well. Didn't really expect this, but even then, one can't help but feel the axe-above-you, what if something were to happen to cause another rift with Kassian and they trade him?

The "rift" of which you speak was all about playing time. Something Hodgson seemed to feel entitled to despite a Selke and Art Ross winner ahead of him in the depth chart. Kassian on the other hand appears to be happy earning what he gets. He said himself his promotion to the top line can be taken away as easily as it was given. There seems to be a distinct attitude difference between the two.

Okay, well now the Ballard matter is turning around - well after the moment was gone (in 2011). Again, there's no guarantee he and AV have sealed up their rift. Even then, I wouldn't have made that trade - it was a steep overpayment. I rather would have kept Mitchell and Bieksa and sign Hamhuis.

Who says there's a rift to be sealed up? Ballard arrived damaged and was redamaged twice his first season. He didn't play well. At the time of the trade, and the signing of Hamhuis, Mitchell hadn't skated or even started working out since his concussion in January. He didn't even start skating (without contact) until mid August.

I didn't see the Ballard trade as a "steep overpayment" at all. Do you know why we got Ehrhoff so cheap from San Jose? We also took Brad Lukowich as a San Jose salary dump. Florida took Bernier off our hands as a salary dump. What else did Florida get for Ballard? A late first round pick that may or may not pan out (or be several years away from helping) and a waiver eligible prospect with a penchant for showing up to camp in poor shape. When you put it in realistic terms it doesn't sound like much for a proven NHL d-man. Florida got two future possibilities and an overpriced 3rd liner for a current top 4 d-man.

On Linden, it always pays to keep positive standing with your team's most important players in history. Rocky Wirtz understood that - when taking over the Hawks, he repaired the franchise's relationships with Bobby Hull and appointed him ambassador.

What makes you think there isn't a positive standing with Linden? I seem to recall him being on the ice for the Naslund number retirement. He'd only be there if he was invited. The only negative comment he's made since retiring was regarding Keenan. He even named Crawford and AV his his favorite coaches during his career.

So really, Gillis is turning out to be hockey's John Cummins, rebuilding the ship only to sink it. That's why I still rest my case that Linden should take over. Or perhaps Smyl, as someone else suggested, for his in-house experience.

Sure, back to back presidents trophies is a sinking ship.

It doesn't matter who the GM is, there is no guarantee at all of winning the cup. If there was, the free spending Red Wings would have won the cup every year for a decade. In a cap world a team can be favored, but anything can happen. Winning the cup requires three things: a good team, staying relatively healthy through the playoffs, and players getting hot at the right time. There's your big secret to winning the cup.

[BigUncle16]

Man no wonder why the rest of the nhl hates us.... People on this board want Gillis and Vigneault fired, and the whole freakin team traded. Kesler somehow went from god status/captain material to a useless and overrated guy who should be on the first plane out of town after the season. Edler, top 10 in dman points during the regular season, is everybodys new favourite scapegoat and apparently a completely worthless defenseman.

Vancouver has the worst fans in the nhl. Yea... we care about hockey, and we are passioniate, but we are also high maintenance, stuck up, and un-supportive. We are the only team in the playoffs who goes dead silent when losing, and boo's our own team instead of cheering like crazy to try to swing momentum if its not going their way.

Do we need changes.... sure I think so, but the amount of bi-polar fans on here is ridiculous! Gillis wins gm of the year, and then apparently should get the boot the next year? He's a hell of a gm and is always trying to improve the team. Its not his fault the guys he brought in have been given zero chance from the coach. If AV showed some more confidence in Hodgson, maybe he would still be here and wouldn't have demanded a trade because he was unhappy with his icetime. Maybe people wouldn't be criticisng the trade as much if Kassian was actually given a fair chance and played more than 3 minutes a night.

Anyways... bringing in Linden doesn't solve or guarantee anything. If this were to happen he would have to put in his time with the team and learn the ropes. Gillis has done a very good job and doesn't deserve to get the boot.

You've obviously never watched games played in Montreal. But agree with pretty much everything else you said. But being fickle fans is one thing, I don't get quite get the Trevor Linden worship in this city. Sure he was a great player, great guy and everything, but I don't get the idolization.

[VanNuck]

We don't have character? Are you serious? This team is loaded with character.

Let us know when you've woken up...

What kind of character team:

- Has stars who get easily intimidated or frustrated, so they fall down on their job? (Sedins vs. Bolland, Luongo vs. Byfuglien, etc.)

- Challenges opponents only to back down from a real confrontation to avoid getting beat up?

- Resorts to playing dirty? (This would be fine if they were actually able and willing to follow through with their threats...)

- Treats players as expendable commodity (dealing them off without trying to fix the problem or giving them a second chance. Letting fans throw teir players under the bus and not defend them...)

This is only a tip of the iceberg. But really, with all of this, how can you call it a character team? And how can you call Gillis a success for creating character, when it really isn't here?

[VanNuck]

The "rift" of which you speak was all about playing time. Something Hodgson seemed to feel entitled to despite a Selke and Art Ross winner ahead of him in the depth chart. Kassian on the other hand appears to be happy earning what he gets. He said himself his promotion to the top line can be taken away as easily as it was given. There seems to be a distinct attitude difference between the two.

That's why they could have put Hodgson on the second line, and simply shift Kesler over to a wing. That would've been in my view, a dynamic secondary two-way threat. Sometimes, people know they are worth more than what the "upper management" gives them, and no self-respecting player would settle for less. Gillis should've been more empowering to Hodgson here

Who says there's a rift to be sealed up? Ballard arrived damaged and was redamaged twice his first season. He didn't play well. At the time of the trade, and the signing of Hamhuis, Mitchell hadn't skated or even started working out since his concussion in January. He didn't even start skating (without contact) until mid August.

I didn't see the Ballard trade as a "steep overpayment" at all. Do you know why we got Ehrhoff so cheap from San Jose? We also took Brad Lukowich as a San Jose salary dump. Florida took Bernier off our hands as a salary dump. What else did Florida get for Ballard? A late first round pick that may or may not pan out (or be several years away from helping) and a waiver eligible prospect with a penchant for showing up to camp in poor shape. When you put it in realistic terms it doesn't sound like much for a proven NHL d-man. Florida got two future possibilities and an overpriced 3rd liner for a current top 4 d-man.

AV almost rarely ever played Ballard, even when the guy was healthy - often times, he resorted to using Rome. Even when playing and at good health, he was still underwhelming for the price paid.

Grabner alone is worth more than what you rate him. He's managing almost a PPG this season, has far more runway, and would've been valuable depth. Limited depth hurt Vancouver in the final round against Boston with all the injuries piling up.

At best, Ballard wasn't worth what they traded.

What makes you think there isn't a positive standing with Linden? I seem to recall him being on the ice for the Naslund number retirement. He'd only be there if he was invited. The only negative comment he's made since retiring was regarding Keenan. He even named Crawford and AV his his favorite coaches during his career.

The fact that Linden isn't even sitting as a Canuck ambassador, even though that's just an honourary title. But earlier, people were suggesting there is a rift with Linden and the Canucks. Even if there isn't, his absence in an active role is taking the team the wrong way.

Sure, back to back presidents trophies is a sinking ship.

It doesn't matter who the GM is, there is no guarantee at all of winning the cup. If there was, the free spending Red Wings would have won the cup every year for a decade. In a cap world a team can be favored, but anything can happen. Winning the cup requires three things: a good team, staying relatively healthy through the playoffs, and players getting hot at the right time. There's your big secret to winning the cup.

The sinking ship was last season when they fell to the eighth seeded Kings and are hardly in a better position this season to even win a Presidents' Trophy, let alone battle back to the finals.

[CB007]

Let us know when you've woken up...

What kind of character team:

- Has stars who get easily intimidated or frustrated, so they fall down on their job? (Sedins vs. Bolland, Luongo vs. Byfuglien, etc.)

- Challenges opponents only to back down from a real confrontation to avoid getting beat up?

- Resorts to playing dirty? (This would be fine if they were actually able and willing to follow through with their threats...)

- Treats players as expendable commodity (dealing them off without trying to fix the problem or giving them a second chance. Letting fans throw teir players under the bus and not defend them...)

This is only a tip of the iceberg. But really, with all of this, how can you call it a character team? And how can you call Gillis a success for creating character, when it really isn't here?

Has stars who get easily intimidated or frustrated, so they fall down on their job?

Lots of stars in this league gets frustrated or intimidated. Kane, Kessel to start.

- Challenges opponents only to back down from a real confrontation to avoid getting beat up?

Who? Sean Avery never played for us.

Resorts to playing dirty? (This would be fine if they were actually able and willing to follow through with their threats...)

Like what? Our team does not put guys into hospitals on purpose.

Treats players as expendable commodity (dealing them off without trying to fix the problem or giving them a second chance.

Samuelsson and Sturm were the only example. Every team gets rid of old guys who can't play any more. Gary Roberts got it from Pittsburgh off the top of my head.

We have a character team. Let me give you some examples:

Henrik shares with Bouwmeester as the NHL ironman. Considering he has a target on his back every game, that's pretty good.

Burrows and Tanev, undrafted, worked their way up from lowest of the low.

The fact that you don't hear Schneider nor Luongo bitching about not getting what they wanted. Look at Nash last year as a comparison.

Kesler's work ethic is second to none. He will do just about anything to win hockey games. Dustin Brown is a much better diver than Kesler. The only reason Kesler gets the heat is that he is actually not very good at it.

Malhotra. Hamhuis. Sedins. Salo before he was picked up by Tampa. These are some of the most respected guys in the league.

[VanNuck]

You've obviously never watched games played in Montreal. But agree with pretty much everything else you said. But being fickle fans is one thing, I don't get quite get the Trevor Linden worship in this city. Sure he was a great player, great guy and everything, but I don't get the idolization.

Linden is more than a universally respected icon in Vancouver. He is an able leader with a substantial resume that, coupled with his legacy and importance within the city, should make him a candidate for the job. A dark-horse, an underdog maybe, but a definite contender.

- Former NHL captain - 9 years

- President of the NHLPA (During the lockout, he was a key negotiator for the players) - 8 years, plus being a repreentative since 1990

- Business owner/operator, Club 16 Fitness (1 year+)

- Real estate developer (4 years)

[Smashian Kassian]

Let us know when you've woken up...

What kind of character team:

- Has stars who get easily intimidated or frustrated, so they fall down on their job? (Sedins vs. Bolland, Luongo vs. Byfuglien, etc.)

- Challenges opponents only to back down from a real confrontation to avoid getting beat up?

- Resorts to playing dirty? (This would be fine if they were actually able and willing to follow through with their threats...)

- Treats players as expendable commodity (dealing them off without trying to fix the problem or giving them a second chance. Letting fans throw teir players under the bus and not defend them...)

This is only a tip of the iceberg. But really, with all of this, how can you call it a character team? And how can you call Gillis a success for creating character, when it really isn't here?

Did you see our game in anaheim the other night? I seem to recall Perry getting pretty frustrated. And I'm not sure how we treat players as an expendable commodity, I'm not always thrilled with our asset managment but we don't throw away valuable players, we actually treat our players very well. Not sure how that has to do with Character of this team anyways.

Oh and: LOL how do we resort to playing dirty?! What did we have 1 suspension last year? That came in the playoffs. Probably the least amount in the league. But yes we are very dirty.

[VanNuck]

Lots of stars in this league gets frustrated or intimidated. Kane, Kessel to start.

That didn't stop Kane from scoring the Cup winning goal and avoid getting hit by the Canucks' bigger guys.

Who? Sean Avery never played for us.

Lapierre, Burrows, to name a few.

Like what? Our team does not put guys into hospitals on purpose.

Biting and spearing opponents, only to run away from big goons.

Samuelsson and Sturm were the only example. Every team gets rid of old guys who can't play any more. Gary Roberts got it from Pittsburgh off the top of my head.

You forgot Mitchell and Hodgson, guys who deserved every chance to prove themselves one more time until they win. At least with Roberts, he was already in his forties when Pittsburgh let him go. Linden, well he was done for as a player given his age, and someone else (not me, btw), suggested he take over as GM from Nonis (probably just a joke).

- I will say, back then, I wasn't in favour, because I didn't think he had qualified experience. But now, I say, if a former agent can be a GM, then why can't a former player who served as team captain, NHLPA president, and has business experience, hold the job. What's more, the team is following certain straits that just aren't helping, and so that's why I say it's time for a change.

[Baggins]

That's why they could have put Hodgson on the second line, and simply shift Kesler over to a wing. That would've been in my view, a dynamic secondary two-way threat. Sometimes, people know they are worth more than what the "upper management" gives them, and no self-respecting player would settle for less. Gillis should've been more empowering to Hodgson here

Sure displace your Selke winning center to make room for a whiney prospect. Makes complete sense. How would the Selke winner feel about that? Maybe the veteran feels "he worth more than that".

Unlike most here, I fully expected Hodgson to get moved. He wasn't going to sit on the third line until Henrik or Kes retired. Nor would he displace either any time soon. He was a moveable asset.

AV almost rarely ever played Ballard, even when the guy was healthy - often times, he resorted to using Rome. Even when playing and at good health, he was still underwhelming for the price paid.

Ballard didn't get the ice time because he wasn't playing well. Didn't I already say that? Edler is better offensively and Hamhuis is better defensively. Where does that put Ballard? Third pair with third pair ice time. He resorted to Rome because at least he played a safe simple game and was effective. When Ballard played well his ice time went up. When he played poorly his ice time went down. Doesn't that seem the least bit sensible?

Grabner alone is worth more than what you rate him. He's managing almost a PPG this season, has far more runway, and would've been valuable depth. Limited depth hurt Vancouver in the final round against Boston with all the injuries piling up.

At best, Ballard wasn't worth what they traded.

It doesn't matter what Grabner does after the fact. It matters what the situation was at the time he was moved. Our ENTIRE top six coming off a career year. Grabner never showing up to camp in game shape. Grabner being waiver eligible. Those are the FACTS of the situation. Add it up and Grabner had little chance of making the team but had enough potential he wouldn't clear waivers. Something is better than nothing. Which is what we would have had if we hadn't traded him. What does Florida have out of the deal? A draft pick with one whole NHL game under his belt. We have a d-man that's currently playing well. So who won the trade at this point? I could give a rats tush if Grabner ever scores 50 goals. It wasn;t going to happen here because he wouldn't have made the team and wouldn't have cleared waivers. Again, something is better than what Florida currently has out of the deal. How did Grabner work out for Florida? He showed up in poor shape (yet again), didn't impress (yet again), didn't clear waivers (as expected), and was claimed by a team even more desperate for forwards. Like that wouldn't have happened here on a contender whose top six veterans were coming off a career year. That was the situation. That's why he was moved.

The fact that Linden isn't even sitting as a Canuck ambassador, even though that's just an honourary title. But earlier, people were suggesting there is a rift with Linden and the Canucks. Even if there isn't, his absence in an active role is taking the team the wrong way.

What people? Your school chums? Linden has his property development business, his fitness center business, still does public speaking, his charity involvement, and is quite happy not having the team travel schedule. Yet, he still makes appearances at games. What on earth makes you think he's unhappy? It seems to me you're simply unhappy with his choices and would prefer to make crap up that face reality.

The sinking ship was last season when they fell to the eighth seeded Kings and are hardly in a better position this season to even win a Presidents' Trophy, let alone battle back to the finals.

Sure , falling to one of the best goalies in the league while our top two goal scorers were injured is just rediculous. Even the mighty free spending pre-cap Red Wings had first round exits. Keep hitting that panic button kid, this season is still young and we're still missing two of our second line players. Yet we're still leading our division. That just sucks.

[canacks1970]

My stance is that those classy players may have character qualities - but not enough to win. Plus, the guys around them have character problems which only hamper the team's image and overall success (that is different from honest toughness from guys like Gino). Being dirty doesn't win you the Cup, neither does being classy, or having skill. Character is what separates winners from losers.

Gretzky didn't win four cups by being the most skilled player. He did so by being the ultimate character player - without it, he wouldn't have won one Cup nor would he have 2857 points at the end of the day. Bossy wouldn't have been the great goal scorer he was without his character. Stevens, for all his toughness, knew how to play with character (and understood when not to cross the lines), and won three Cups.

Being Dirty doesn't win you cups??? How did Philly win those cups in the 70's? You think Boston beat us with skill and class? So if Dale Weiss has great Character is he going to be a great goal scorer like Bossy? Of course not! Players like Gretzky and Bossy didn't put up point just on Charater alone . They were skilled as well as playing along with great players like Kurri , Coffee, Anderson . If you want to bring Character then Mr. Anderson didn't have the best Character but he ended up with winning 4 cups. Mr.Bossy was scoring goals because he had a great player playing along side of him like Brian Trottier,Nystrom, Clarke Gillies, Dennis Potvin.

Are you going to tell us the Dave the Hammer Schultz and Dave Semenko won cups on Character?

Just because Linden had a great Career and was the face of the franshice doen't mean he would be a great Gm. How did the Great One do as a coach? Not every player can be a great coach or Gm? You notice that Linden has stepped away from the game for like 5 years now and counting. It usually means he quite happy what he's doing outside of hockey.

Believe it or not most NHL Gm's or coaches weren't the greatest players. Most of them were plug players who had short Careers who struggled in the minors. Some of them never played an NHL game in their life. But somehow they became better coaches and Gm.

Why would you want to change Gm at this point. A Gm at this point has made this team stay competitive and never missed the playoffs under his helm.

[canacks1970]

That didn't stop Kane from scoring the Cup winning goal and avoid getting hit by the Canucks' bigger guys.

Lapierre, Burrows, to name a few.

Biting and spearing opponents, only to run away from big goons.

You forgot Mitchell and Hodgson, guys who deserved every chance to prove themselves one more time until they win. At least with Roberts, he was already in his forties when Pittsburgh let him go. Linden, well he was done for as a player given his age, and someone else (not me, btw), suggested he take over as GM from Nonis (probably just a joke).

- I will say, back then, I wasn't in favour, because I didn't think he had qualified experience. But now, I say, if a former agent can be a GM, then why can't a former player who served as team captain, NHLPA president, and has business experience, hold the job. What's more, the team is following certain straits that just aren't helping, and so that's why I say it's time for a change.

Ok so do you understand we are in a cap era correct. You wanted to take a chance on Willie Mitchell? When everybody at the time didn't know if his Career was over. Highsight is 20/20.

Its time for a change? Hey were not the Toronto Maple Leafs here. Would you like to go back when this team miss the playoffs 5 years in a roll in the mid 90's early 2000? How about we go back when this team only finished above .500 TWICE thoughout the 70's and 80's? Gillis made a few mistakes like any other Gm. But what had he done that really hurt this team? He chance the mindset of this team when winning a Division isn't good enough anymore. And what traits do you look for in a team? Every year a certain teams wins the cup with a certain trait ,but it doesn't always work on another. So are you giving up on the season already?

Let see now we had one week of training camp and you expect the team to gel right away? We don't have Kess or Booth. We don't know how the other teams will do down the road if they can stay healthy.

[VanNuck]

Well, right now, I'm starting to see more and more dissatisfaction with MG's time at the helm. And I have to agree, the team is starting to lose it's direction and motivation to win. When this happens, it's time for a change in the leadership.

People say Linden is happy running Club 16 and his other ventures, and has no interest in returning. That I can understand. But I think he needs to consider changing his mind and take over Canucks so he can right the ship.

The other option, not stated in the headline is Stan Smyl. The man has by now plenty of experience throughout the organization and at all levels, from coaching, to scouting and development, and now senior advisor to the GM.

With either man in charge, I believe he would bring in players who have nothing but a real desire to make their home in Vancouver and with the fans. This kind of loyalty would reap almost unconditional public support, the kind TL or SS themselves garnered even when his chips were down. No more of the fickle, fairweather bandwagoners. He would also target character players who would make themselves accountable and can grind through even the dark days. Last but not least, he might change the coaching staff, bring in a fresh voice, someone who instills character, passion, and will to win. Put this in place, and then the wins would follow.

[LuonGO Canucks Go]

Lets start of by giving Linden some job in Farm team if it comes to Abbotsford

[Bananas]

I was going to suggest Linden for coach, but this makes sense, too.

... maybe he can be both. Clearly AV and Gillis see this team completely differently and have no ability to communicate with one another.

[Honky Cat]

No disrespect to Trevor Linden,but great players do not neccesarily mean that thy're going to be great NHL GM's or coaches..Wayne Gretzky and Steve Yzerman say hello.

[VanNuck]

I was going to suggest Linden for coach, but this makes sense, too.

... maybe he can be both. Clearly AV and Gillis see this team completely differently and have no ability to communicate with one another.

I was going to suggest Smyl would take over as head coach, but actually, despite his experience, from what other players said of him, he's not very effective in that capacity. He's better suited to being GM or assistant GM.

Don't know if Linden is capable behind the bench, but I think he's perfectly capable in the front office. But if he must change the coaching staff, he'd likely hire back his old boss Pat Quinn.

[TheTruthHurts]

But but but but but I like Gillis!

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

Every team has that stuff. Just to use Boston as an example.

Savard's biting, Ference flipping off the crowd, Boston Rioting, Everyone Diving, Marchand sloughfooting, Bias commentators, overly cocky fans, not showing respect off the ice (In scrums), exc.

Don't you mean Marchand period?

No disrespect to Trevor Linden,but great players do not neccesarily mean that thy're going to be great NHL GM's or coaches..Wayne Gretzky and Steve Yzerman say hello.

This, all the way to the bank.