Linden For Gm

[VanNuck]

What's with these old topics being exhumed from their well deserved grave?

Well first, this thread exists so I'm not going to repeat myself over by making a new one.

Now, yes Gillis may have put together the best team ever at one point, but:

1. That team is falling apart. Gillis has failed to build and maintain players' relationships with the franchise and the city - otherwise, Hodgson wouldn't have wanted out, Luongo wouldn't have wanted out. Players are beginning to be made to feel expendable if someone better comes along or if they cannot pull their own weight. I mean, who's next? (You can say it's the players' own problem, but I'm telling you that the leadership is responsible for building relationships and making them feel valuable). Case in point, this current roster is almost inferior to the 2011 roster, unless they can trade Luongo for a top flight player - I wouldn't take anyone less than a Weber, Crosby, or Zetterberg (or at least someone on that caliber and who has at least seven years on his contract).

2. Canucks nation has been spoiled with promises of winning a Cup, they've become irrational fairweather fans who call for players' heads when things don't go well, and worse comes to worse, could start riots and brawls. Now, call me irrational and fairweather for wanting to get rid of Gillis, but I'm telling you this - public relations are the management's responsibility. What Gillis really should have been doing was emphasizing loyalty and connection before results. This means projecting realistic expectations for the fans and asking them not to bail when things are bad, but to continue to support the team. That, my friends, was Gillis' failure last season - but it was Linden's strong point, which was why we remained faithful when they stumbled.

3. I was actually mistaken about being third worst franchise, Canucks are ranked 92nd as of 2012. But they were among the most hated: http://bleacherrepor...couver-canucks. That's not because others were simply jealous, but because they had developed a reputation of being dirty players and embellishers who don't play fair and square or who complain when things don't go right. That attitude carries over to Canuck nation, enter what I said in #2.

Now, Linden says he isn't interested in returning to the team, even if he misses the guys. But truthfully, the Canucks have become a laughingstock in his absense. With Linden in charge, he will get them back to playing good, honest hockey and making the Canucks' home with the fans. In all honesty, after last season, I can no longer bring myself to cheer for this team - as long as Gillis is in charge, and Linden is anywhere but here.

[Zissou]

no love for Stan Smyl? The guy has been in the Canucks front office system for years and has been Gillis' go to guy for the last few seasons. If you want a Vancouver icon who knows the game, Smyl is the guy. He has way more experience and expertise in the position than bringing Linden in.

Not saying Gillis should be replaced by any stretch, I think he is the best GM this franchise has ever had. But, if he ever were to go, Smyl should be the next GM of the Canucks.

[TheCammer]

Once again, something is wrong in Vancouver, and someone has to go. In my books, the scapegoat isn't to be Luongo or AV, but Gillis, who should be replaced with someone who truly cares about this team, who's made his home in Vancouver, and who is respected by every hockey persona in business. That man is Trevor Linden.

The guy runs a business - okay, running an athletic centre isn't the same as managing an entire franchise, but to people who say he has no business experience, well he has, not a lot, but he knows what he's doing. Given all of his credentials, backed by his personal character, he is more than capable of being GM here.

Under Linden, players who want to play for Canucks, who want to make their home here with the fans, and who wil make every connection with this community (as opposed to token deeds) will play here. Under Linden, well, the fans will learn to stand pact and not holler and howl when things go wrong. He will be up front and honest about situations when things go wrong, and do everything in his power to make things right. Worse comes to worse, if it's obvious Canucks cannot win the Cup in a given season, he will tell the truth, but then ask fans not to give up hope, before coming up with a plan to get the team going for the future. He would then take the message to the players and coaching staff, and they will get their act together. Under Linden, they will want to win, not just for themselves, but for the city - I don't see much of that under Gillis, just some selfish, gutless players who fizzle (although there are others with real desire).

There's a reason why the Canucks are ranked among the worst of NHL franchises, as low as third to last of 122, above only Montreal and Toronto by some accounts. And even I, an ardent Canuck fan, am growing dissapointed and even ashamed to call myself a Canuck fan. If Gillis were doing a better job, we wouldn't have this problem. So once again, I call for a change in management.

I have the good fortune of knowing Trevor quite well through business. At this point in time he has "NO interest" in working in hockey as he has too many other business undertakings: motivational speaking and appearances, the fitness chain and real estate development as well as endorsement work. When dealing with him I have to hide my inner fanboy a bit because I agreee with you that he has always been a tremendous leader of the Canucks franchise and has adopted Vancouver as his own. It seems natural for him to continue in some sort of role, except that it isn't what he wants to do at this point.

Where I completely disagree with you is this notion that the team no longer represents our city in a positve way. In fact they are more active in the community than ever before and fielding a team that is more successful than we have ever had.

In terms of treating people like assets rather than humans, that is the business in many ways. When you get old or ineffective you are out of a job. Your example of Willie Mitchell is a poor one. Could Willie still be a Canuck? Sure. He was offered a contract to stay but got a better offer elsewhere. He choose to leave. I think the Canucks do a lot to make the players and their families feel like part of a big family not just an asset. And I think they do a lot to make the fans feel inclusive. I like where the Canucks are now and A lot of that has to do with the leadership of Mike Gillis.

[TheCammer]

Well first, this thread exists so I'm not going to repeat myself over by making a new one.

Now, yes Gillis may have put together the best team ever at one point, but:

1. That team is falling apart. Gillis has failed to build and maintain players' relationships with the franchise and the city - otherwise, Hodgson wouldn't have wanted out, Luongo wouldn't have wanted out. Players are beginning to be made to feel expendable if someone better comes along or if they cannot pull their own weight. I mean, who's next? (You can say it's the players' own problem, but I'm telling you that the leadership is responsible for building relationships and making them feel valuable). Case in point, this current roster is almost inferior to the 2011 roster, unless they can trade Luongo for a top flight player - I wouldn't take anyone less than a Weber, Crosby, or Zetterberg (or at least someone on that caliber and who has at least seven years on his contract).

2. Canucks nation has been spoiled with promises of winning a Cup, they've become irrational fairweather fans who call for players' heads when things don't go well, and worse comes to worse, could start riots and brawls. Now, call me irrational and fairweather for wanting to get rid of Gillis, but I'm telling you this - public relations are the management's responsibility. What Gillis really should have been doing was emphasizing loyalty and connection before results. This means projecting realistic expectations for the fans and asking them not to bail when things are bad, but to continue to support the team. That, my friends, was Gillis' failure last season - but it was Linden's strong point, which was why we remained faithful when they stumbled.

3. I was actually mistaken about being third worst franchise, Canucks are ranked 92nd as of 2012. But they were among the most hated: http://bleacherrepor...couver-canucks. That's not because others were simply jealous, but because they had developed a reputation of being dirty players and embellishers who don't play fair and square or who complain when things don't go right. That attitude carries over to Canuck nation, enter what I said in #2.

Now, Linden says he isn't interested in returning to the team, even if he misses the guys. But truthfully, the Canucks have become a laughingstock in his absense. With Linden in charge, he will get them back to playing good, honest hockey and making the Canucks' home with the fans. In all honesty, after last season, I can no longer bring myself to cheer for this team - as long as Gillis is in charge, and Linden is anywhere but here.

Well first, this thread exists so I'm not going to repeat myself over by making a new one.

Now, yes Gillis may have put together the best team ever at one point, but:

1. That team is falling apart. Gillis has failed to build and maintain players' relationships with the franchise and the city - otherwise, Hodgson wouldn't have wanted out, Luongo wouldn't have wanted out. Players are beginning to be made to feel expendable if someone better comes along or if they cannot pull their own weight. I mean, who's next? (You can say it's the players' own problem, but I'm telling you that the leadership is responsible for building relationships and making them feel valuable). Case in point, this current roster is almost inferior to the 2011 roster, unless they can trade Luongo for a top flight player - I wouldn't take anyone less than a Weber, Crosby, or Zetterberg (or at least someone on that caliber and who has at least seven years on his contract).

2. Canucks nation has been spoiled with promises of winning a Cup, they've become irrational fairweather fans who call for players' heads when things don't go well, and worse comes to worse, could start riots and brawls. Now, call me irrational and fairweather for wanting to get rid of Gillis, but I'm telling you this - public relations are the management's responsibility. What Gillis really should have been doing was emphasizing loyalty and connection before results. This means projecting realistic expectations for the fans and asking them not to bail when things are bad, but to continue to support the team. That, my friends, was Gillis' failure last season - but it was Linden's strong point, which was why we remained faithful when they stumbled.

3. I was actually mistaken about being third worst franchise, Canucks are ranked 92nd as of 2012. But they were among the most hated: http://bleacherrepor...couver-canucks. That's not because others were simply jealous, but because they had developed a reputation of being dirty players and embellishers who don't play fair and square or who complain when things don't go right. That attitude carries over to Canuck nation, enter what I said in #2.

Now, Linden says he isn't interested in returning to the team, even if he misses the guys. But truthfully, the Canucks have become a laughingstock in his absense. With Linden in charge, he will get them back to playing good, honest hockey and making the Canucks' home with the fans. In all honesty, after last season, I can no longer bring myself to cheer for this team - as long as Gillis is in charge, and Linden is anywhere but here.

1. I don't think the team is falling apart. Hodgson's move was warranted. If Dale Wiese decides that due to his offensive flair in the Dutch league that he should get 1st line minutes and PP time rather than 4th line time and has his agent continually bothers the GM with it should Gillis insist AV plays him more? Of course not. If it becomes a distraction you move the player. I do agree a little on the Luongo deal. I don't necessarily like how it has happened but many feel Schneider (not me included) has won the job, however that is the coaches decision. Luongo choose to ask to be moved. Not the other way around.

2. We have always had fair weather fans. I have been here for 41 seasons and the fan base has always been the same. In most years we just wondered what high draft pick we could squander the following June. We haven't been promised cups. We have a team and management that are making that the "goal" each and every year. I as a fan don't want it any other way. A competitive team that has an expectation to compete for the Stanley Cup. Heaven forbid. Damn you Gillis for trying to win!

3. In my opinion this has more to do with our "arrogant" fan base's on-line activities and comments(some tend to be awfully cocky despite our lack of cups) and the success of the team in recent years. Do you know how many people hate the Habs and the Yankees? I will agree I am often embarassed by our fan base in sports forums with rather cocky and arrogant attitudes and comments. I don't think that is the result of Mike Gillis and his organization. Unfortunately, with the internet and social media it seems to be a "trash talk" world. I don't like it either.

[VanNuck]

The more I read of other people's comments about Vancouver being such a "dirty, classless organization of losers," the more I would rather distance myself from the team. I probably should have added that Gillis talks about character, but the team really displays a disappointing lack of character. Enter Lappierre and several others on goading opponents to fight, only to duck and draw penalties - rival fans may be opposed to us, but they're right. What self-respecting fan would want to see his team do that? The Sedins have good skill, but really, time after time, they have shown to be easily intimidated off the play. Guys like Nugent-Hopkins and Yakapov, by contrast, they don't let bigger guys stop them. That's called heart and determination. If the Canucks had more character and determination, they would have won, and others would have more respect for them.

There's a difference between setting a goal to win the Cup and being irrational in pursuit of it. Frankly, I'm most ashamed of the fairweather fans who are quick to worship heros after victory and then throw them under the bus when things go wrong. Even the Leafs are better here - they never thrown Mats Sundin under the bus for not winning the Cup. Yet no other team (except for Canucks) wants the Cup more badly.

Case in point, why did they stick with Mats Sundin? Because he was a classy character guy who could command loyalty from even the most fickle fan - and Vancouver doesn't have such a person on the ice, behind the bench, or up in management.

On Hodgson, Gillis had an option. He could have made ammends to repair the rift with Hodgson - he's been woefully inconsistent in publically defending certain players while leaving others out to dry. (At least he was fortunate Kassian is playing well, but it's not unwarrented that Kassian too could hit another similar snag). Luongo, meanwhile, was falling (until now) because he was growing tired of being here, and already wanted to leave - wouldn't have happened if Gillis worked to keep him connected to the team and the city.

So to that end, if there must be a scapegoat for the Canucks' shortcomings, it's not to be AV or Luongo, but Gillis. I rest my case here.

[37yrsncounting]

Before I begin, we got to give credit to Gillis for what he has done for the team, building a good foundation and establishing purpose for the franchise. He certainly done well on two areas: drafting prospects and handling little things to attract better players and make them perform better.

But he has also taken out a lot of the team's former soul. Long removed are the 90s, when we had players who identified with the fans and made us a part of the game. The team has ceased to be a team for the fans and instead has become a machine - and a useless one too, having lost in the Finals and could get swept in the first round despite winning the President's Trophy. They treat players as assets instead of humans - enter Willie Mitchell - and that translates into less connection with the city, less respect from opponents, and less of a will to win. You say the players want to win, and I have no doubt that's true, but evidently they don't have enough of that swagger, confidence or will, otherwise we would have won the Cup by now.

There is more that I could talk about, but I will get straight to my point. Linden would be an ideal replacement for GM. From serving as Captain Canuck to president of the NHLPA, I think he has enough on his resume for this job. He is a strong, stable, and personable leader who knows how to assemble his team and make deals. Most importantly, he cares about this city more than anyone in the Canuck organization.

Linden is respected league-wide, even by the opponents. If your leader carries this kind of clout, your team won't be the object of scorn and derision. Your players will feel more up to task of winning.

Linden is just that kind of a guy that players would go through a brick wall for. Gillis, on the other hand, isn't so. That's why we ought to bring back number 16.

wow, i thought i was a picky fan, I too have been very negative on gillis BUT let me point out

the team gillis inherited was basically a nonis/burke team that didn't make the playoffs, gillis added the pieces and we've won 2 presidents trophy and gotten within one game of winning the stanley cup. We are hated, yeah, cause we are or were successful.

i sometimes think that gillis has been too personal with the players instead of making the right hockey decisions. i have no idea why malhotra, next to his faceoff percentage, is still in the nhl. Gillis has also gone out and tried to sign BC boys like hamhuis and garrison. Mitchell was a pure hockey decision and not a financial one, similar decisions were made with ohlund and salo. Why don't you put the other shoe on and ask why each one of these players chose not to stay with the canucks. They were all offered contracts. The reality of the situation is that players makes business decisions thats best for themselves so why blame gillis.

im negative on gillis for his less than impressive trades and his poor drafting and developing record. the canucks also for one reason or another have big issues when it comes to relations with injured players.

replacing gillis with linden may appease a portion of unhappy canucks fans but really all it does is push back the development of our organization for another 5 to 10 years as we wait for another rookie gm to put his stamp on the team

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

Holy christ on a popsicle stick

[Tokasmoka]

The Curse of T-Lind

This team has been cursed since the day they traded the heart and soul of this franchise. Only way to win a cup is to bring him back in some capacity so he gets his name engraved on Lord Stanley's mug along with the franchise and city he gave it all for.

[Noheart]

You have clearly underestimated the responsibility of a NHL GM.

It is also something one has to be groomed into.

I could see a possible promotion in down the road where AV and RB move up and Gillis is just a prez.

[TimberWolf]

Thats a hell of an idea !!

Have to agree. As much as I didn't like his stint here (though not as much as most, it was just forgettable to me) he would make an amazing coach.

As far as Linden? What makes the OP believe Hodgeson would stay under Linden? Just because he's Linden, dammit? For all we know he would have had less patience with Cody or never even drafted him perferring big farmer kids from medicine hat. Op asks people not to speculate on Cody wanting out, but this thread is nothing but pure speculation.

[Orca]

That's a terrible idea. I love Linden, and I'd hate for him to become a coach or GM because inevitably you people will start using him as a scapegoat and complaining and whining about him not doing his job well if we don't win a cup.

[VanNuck]

Have to agree. As much as I didn't like his stint here (though not as much as most, it was just forgettable to me) he would make an amazing coach.

As far as Linden? What makes the OP believe Hodgeson would stay under Linden? Just because he's Linden, dammit? For all we know he would have had less patience with Cody or never even drafted him perferring big farmer kids from medicine hat. Op asks people not to speculate on Cody wanting out, but this thread is nothing but pure speculation.

You got it backwards. Cody's trading was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, that Gillis should go.

Now if Linden were the GM, he would have been sure to invest in his people and not leave them out to dry.

As far as his being a scapegoat - well, that's just it. When things don't go so well, well he commands enough respect to keep people calm, he'll be honest and forthright on what's wrong and how to make it right. And worse comes to worse, if there's going to be a scapegoat, providing he's done all he can do (and knowing his character), it'll be someone else.

[Ghostsof1915]

I'd actually rather see Trevor as an assistant coach first, if coaching was an avenue he'd like to do. If he wanted GM duties, he would follow the Yzerman model. Work as an assistant to Gillis for a few years and learn everything in the organisation. From contracts, to scouting, etc.

As The Cammer pointed out, but is this something Trevor wants to do? Sounds like he's building his own little empire, and he's happy being away from hockey for a little while. Could this change? Sure. But it's up to Trevor.

[Baggins]

You got it backwards. Cody's trading was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, that Gillis should go.

Maybe you should be the one to go, as Cody's not coming back. Buffalo has plenty of room on their wagon I hear.

Now if Linden were the GM, he would have been sure to invest in his people and not leave them out to dry.

Speculation or wishful thinking? For all you know Linden may have moved Cody out the moment his daddy started calling about his ice time.

As far as his being a scapegoat - well, that's just it. When things don't go so well, well he commands enough respect to keep people calm, he'll be honest and forthright on what's wrong and how to make it right. And worse comes to worse, if there's going to be a scapegoat, providing he's done all he can do (and knowing his character), it'll be someone else.

You underestimate Canuck fans. They have the bare minimum of patience and will turn on anybody if things go badly. They just tend to leave the guys "they like" till last.

Ultimately: Trevor isn't interested and Cody's not coming back. Time to move on.

[etsen3]

Linden is a great guy and great player but has experience with the GM side of things. What makes him qualified for the position over any other guy that had a long career in the league? I don't players play for their GM's, they play for themselves and their teammates.

OP seems to want a nostalgic figurehead type for the organization. Sure he's a popular guy but that doesn't mean you have the skills and experience to run the business/strategic side of things. If they did hire him I would rather have him as an assistant coach, that's a place where he can more directly relate to and lead the players.

[wallstreetamigo]

I could see a possible promotion in down the road where AV and RB move up and Gillis is just a prez.

God no......Can you say Aaron Rome, 7 year, 70 million contract? AV would not make a good GM at all as he is way to stuck in his ways to have the flexibility necessary for the job. Rick Bowness isn't even a good coach why the hell would the Canucks want him actually influencing which players to bring in? Its bad enough he cant properly manage the ones they bring in now.....

[Baggins]

Well first, this thread exists so I'm not going to repeat myself over by making a new one.

Now, yes Gillis may have put together the best team ever at one point, but:

1. That team is falling apart. Gillis has failed to build and maintain players' relationships with the franchise and the city - otherwise, Hodgson wouldn't have wanted out, Luongo wouldn't have wanted out. Players are beginning to be made to feel expendable if someone better comes along or if they cannot pull their own weight. I mean, who's next? (You can say it's the players' own problem, but I'm telling you that the leadership is responsible for building relationships and making them feel valuable). Case in point, this current roster is almost inferior to the 2011 roster, unless they can trade Luongo for a top flight player - I wouldn't take anyone less than a Weber, Crosby, or Zetterberg (or at least someone on that caliber and who has at least seven years on his contract).

2. Canucks nation has been spoiled with promises of winning a Cup, they've become irrational fairweather fans who call for players' heads when things don't go well, and worse comes to worse, could start riots and brawls. Now, call me irrational and fairweather for wanting to get rid of Gillis, but I'm telling you this - public relations are the management's responsibility. What Gillis really should have been doing was emphasizing loyalty and connection before results. This means projecting realistic expectations for the fans and asking them not to bail when things are bad, but to continue to support the team. That, my friends, was Gillis' failure last season - but it was Linden's strong point, which was why we remained faithful when they stumbled.

3. I was actually mistaken about being third worst franchise, Canucks are ranked 92nd as of 2012. But they were among the most hated: http://bleacherrepor...couver-canucks. That's not because others were simply jealous, but because they had developed a reputation of being dirty players and embellishers who don't play fair and square or who complain when things don't go right. That attitude carries over to Canuck nation, enter what I said in #2.

Now, Linden says he isn't interested in returning to the team, even if he misses the guys. But truthfully, the Canucks have become a laughingstock in his absense. With Linden in charge, he will get them back to playing good, honest hockey and making the Canucks' home with the fans. In all honesty, after last season, I can no longer bring myself to cheer for this team - as long as Gillis is in charge, and Linden is anywhere but here.

1 - The team is falling apart? Panic much? Cody wanted out because he had a Hart and Selke winner ahead of him in the depth chart and wanted more ice time than 3C gets. The three guys you mention are on teams that don't need Lou. A package in return is more likely.

2 - When did anybody ever promise a cup? I suspect you're hearing voices nobody else hears. Linden was wearing an A on his chest when Burrows and Kesler were the Kings of diving and Cooke and Rutuu were throwing cheap shots. If he didn't say anything then what makes you think he'd say anything as GM?

3 - I could care less if others hate this team. Every team has their divers and every player complains about penalty calls. Those are simply used as excuses to hate a successful team. Every successful team has those that hate them.

[Smashian Kassian]

But truthfully, the Canucks have become a laughingstock in his absense.

that was absolutely hilarious, the most successful era ever and "the Canucks have becoma a laughingstock"

Give me a break, I guess you don't like winning?

Edit: Oh and we aren't dirty, Classless, disrespectful, exc. We are actually one of the more classy & respectful teams.

People just hate those who win and are successful, that's just the way it is. Nothing secluded to us and adding Linden as our GM wouldn't change that.

[Nino]

This.

I think the fact that he doesn't have any kind of job with the organization shows that he's probably not interested in it. If he were, he probably would be welcomed with open arms.

The rumor on the street is that he hates AV and wants nothing to do with the club when AV is around. When AV moves on I bet we will See him involved in the club more.

[EmployeeoftheMonth]

The rumor on the street is that he hates AV and wants nothing to do with the club when AV is around. When AV moves on I bet we will See him involved in the club more.

Nope