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The "schneider Is Unproven Argument"

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#61 Special Ed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

How about $2000?


Ah bunbun. Schneider fan-boy, Lu hater and troll under the bridge extraordinaire.

What took u so long? And judging from u jumping in on our bet I will take it.

But let's change condition. I bet $2000 that U MAD BRO.

Schneiders getn dealt. Sorry.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#62 unbridled_id

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

I think lots of teams would want him... he is in the top 3 of virtually every statistical category since the lockout and he hasn't shown that he is declining as of yet.

He immediately gives you a chance to make the playoffs, and at a decent price tag.

I think an obvious no-brainer is Tampa, but there are dark horse ideas out there as well. Montreal is going to see massive changes, is currently buggered for cap space, and may not want to or be able to invest the $6+ million it will take to get Price under contract.

Adding a hometown boy who is francophone and represents their massive Italian population would be a big step in repairing their image in Quebec. Maybe Luongo wouldn't want to step into the spotlight again there, but maybe he would love a chance to play for the most storied franchise in the league which he also grew up rooting for.



I just don't see a Tampa team that is to a degree re-tooling wanting to take on a guy on the decline with a huge contract. I think they would want to explore a younger option... For the Habs I wouldn't know why they wouldn't want to pay Price who is excellent and improving slightly more than a guy ten years older who is slipping ?

With his age and the fact that his best years are behind him a team wouldn't want to give up too much for him and would have to ship back a "bad" contract.

Edited by unbridled_id, 23 April 2012 - 10:11 AM.

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#63 Xbox

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:11 AM

Schneider is 27 man. When should he start? Once he becomes 36 years old like Thomas? Jesus are people this dumb. Schneider is as ready as he will ever be.


He is 26, if he was 27 he would be an UFA

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#64 Dogbyte

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

You have got it provost.. The team seems to play better in front of Schneider and the odd man out is lou... Now what to do with good ole fading lou. and who would want him ???

I know he appears damaged if you follow him as much as we do but I think you're overlooking the fact that he is a proven top flight goaltender and many teams in the league would be good done by to attach their hopes to Lou's boat. I mean come on, Chicago would be ecstatic to get someone of his quality ,,. now that would be funny.

Also, goaltenders don't grow on trees like you seem to think.

Edited by Dogbyte, 23 April 2012 - 10:16 AM.

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#65 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

Ah bunbun. Schneider fan-boy, Lu hater and troll under the bridge extraordinaire.

What took u so long? And judging from u jumping in on our bet I will take it.

But let's change condition. I bet $2000 that U MAD BRO.

Schneiders getn dealt. Sorry.


You sure you're not just a Schneider hater? You find every way to bash him regardless of how well he plays.

For a guy who says "U MAD BRO", you sure you have $2000? I'm not sure your parents would offer to pay that amount for you.

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#66 RBCanucks

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

As far as I'm concerned all Luongo has proven since joining the Canucks is that despite his status as a world class goaltender he is also a world class choker come playoff time.

When Lu is on his game he is incredible, but when he's off his game he is a train wreck. To me his time with this team is coming to a close. I don't see him continuing on in Vancouver without drastically reducing our chances at success.

I think most Canucks fans have a similar feeling about the situation: we love Lu but he's proven to us that we cannot trust him when things get tough.

The problem is that when your own fan base has lost its faith in you, jeers you, and is calling for your head most of the time then its time to say goodbye. It's not a must but it's probably best in the long-term. Luongo has 10 years left on his contract if you think the pressure is on now, give it a few more years without a cup and poor playoff performances. He will be booed out of the province. It's sad but that is the reality of the situation.

Edited by rbcanucks87, 23 April 2012 - 10:31 AM.


#67 RO8!!

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:22 AM

Hello there folks, we've all heard it before, that Schneider is "unproven". Now I've spent a lot of time trying to understand this argument as it seems to be the only one the Luongo "lovers" can come up with for why Schneider shouldn't be the number 1 guy. I have concluded that this is in fact not an argument but BS that spews from those that fear change for whatever reason.

So here's what I've come up with:

According to you luongo "lovers", Schneider is as you put it, "unproven". Okay so basically what I understand is that in order to prove himself, he has to play a lot of games, but in order to play a lot of games, he has to prove himself. You see how I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "unproven" argument? It's a lose-lose situation for Schneider! He can't prove himself because we won't play him as our number 1! And we won't play him as our number 1 because he's unproven!! GO FIGURE!!!

This is some Inception crap am I right!!!

I can appreciate the fact that some of you love Luongo but I think the people who realize that this is a business and NOT a popularity contest will agree that he has (for lack of better words) "sh*t the bed" on numerous BIG occasions and that change is needed.


If you realized this is a business you wouldn't have brought this up and quit accusing people of being Luongo lovers makes you sound like a tool. Here business man who is going to want Luongo if even we don't want him and his contract unless your implying we keep him as our backup and have a possibly disgruntled 5million dollar backup riding the pine. Most people don't seem to think these couple steps ahead plus how do we know we didn't just play Schneider for a bit in the playoffs to show case him as we were almost eliminated by the time he got the start anyways. Schneider is quite obviously a great goalie I just find it laughable that most of CDC seems to think he is "better" than Luongo, at the same level maybe but better when he has yet to shoulder the load all by himself. Goaltending is not our issue people just need something to blame the loss on and I worry that it will start falling on Schneider in due time because a lot of Canucks fans don't seem to appreciate what we have and that we don't have a goalie grave yard anymore. We don't play the defensive trap system like we did when AV first got here now we play a high risk/reward system where our dmen pinch all the time and we shoot for offense a lot more and it leads to many breaks going the other way or at the very least poor defensive coverage on the back check, that is what makes our goalies look suspect.

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#68 Special Ed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

You sure you're not just a Schneider hater? You find every way to bash him regardless of how well he plays.

For a guy who says "U MAD BRO", you sure you have $2000? I'm not sure your parents would offer to pay that amount for you.


See I won. U r mad. Easy money.

I'm a realist. Luongo is better than Schneider. Just look at the pedigree and the big picture. Schneider is good and I like him but I don't like everyone thinking that u just replace Lu with Schneids = cup. To me we still have a better chance with Lu, if he still wants to stay here. And with a NTC in play it's more likely Schneider will get dealt. Not to mention the history that Lu has with us I would be disapointed if management just tosses him aside. Don't think they will. In fact I think management will have a sit down with luongo and see what he wants to do. If Lu wants to stay and play to win in Vancouver. I feel he's staying.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#69 Dogbyte

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

You sure you're not just a Schneider hater? You find every way to bash him regardless of how well he plays.

For a guy who says "U MAD BRO", you sure you have $2000? I'm not sure your parents would offer to pay that amount for you.

I AM MAD BRO, I'M WILLING TO BET $20000 AT ANY TIME ON ANYTHING.

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#70 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:29 AM

See I won. U r mad. Easy money.

I'm a realist. Luongo is better than Schneider. Just look at the pedigree and the big picture. Schneider is good and I like him but I don't like everyone thinking that u just replace Lu with Schneids = cup. To me we still have a better chance with Lu, if he still wants to stay here. And with a NTC in play it's more likely Schneider will get dealt. Not to mention the history that Lu has with us I would be disapointed if management just tosses him aside. Don't think they will. In fact I think management will have a sit down with luongo and see what he wants to do. If Lu wants to stay and play to win in Vancouver. I feel he's staying.


How am I mad? lol. You must not know me well. I rarely am ever mad, especially over a forum like this.

How is Luongo better than Schneider? Schneider gave up 1 goal in regulation for each of the games he's played. How about Luongo? There were numerous breakdowns yesterday that could have been blamed on the defense yet Schneider made the save. Only a clear homer would still fail to see this. Schneider's numbers are better and he's younger. He hasn't even hit his prime yet.

Thankfully, most of the hockey world agrees that Schneider is better.

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#71 Provost

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:30 AM

I just don't see a Tampa team that is to a degree re-tooling wanting to take on a guy on the decline with a huge contract. I think they would want to explore a younger option... For the Habs I wouldn't know why they wouldn't want to pay Price who is excellent and improving slightly more than a guy ten years older who is slipping ?

With his age and the fact that his best years are behind him a team wouldn't want to give up too much for him and would have to ship back a "bad" contract.


Tampa badly needs a goalie and defence, they are fairly stacked up front in forwards and need to balance things out a little. Look at who they have left signed on defence next season. Hedman, Brewer, and Bergeron (I assume Ohlund will retire)... that leaves them needing to re-tool and getting one of two more guys capable of playing in their top 4. They have no signed starter in goal, and I don't know that there is a younger option to Luongo out there (assuming we hang onto Schneider ourselves).

Montreal simply may not be able to afford Price... they have so much money tied up in bad, NTC contracts they are really quite hooped going forward unless they can ditch someone (which I think will be difficult this summer due to cap and bargaining uncertainty). If Price wants $6.5 million then they are in trouble for filling out their roster.
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#72 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

I'm sorry !! Lou had a dismal 2.41 GGA this season...hardly stellar and not even top 10. he was mired in the middle of the pack all season. A 2,41 GAA is just that...an average...meaning..he was better than that and worse than that. He failed to be consistant...his win /loss record was 31 and 22, again, hardly great on a first placed team. What hes done in the past is history...anyone playing goal this past season could have put up those numbers.
Schneider beat Lou in every category you can find, based on games played. The reason why Schneids will continue to shine is that he is fundamentally very very solid. His game is consistant as a result. He may not be perfect every game, but hes a much better goalie and risk than Luongo is now. We might be able to keep both, but IMO Lou will back up Cory !

#73 Neufy161

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

He's already proven. I don't know why people can't see it.


He has 1 playoff win...

Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#74 Neufy161

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:35 AM

Hello there folks, we've all heard it before, that Schneider is "unproven". Now I've spent a lot of time trying to understand this argument as it seems to be the only one the Luongo "lovers" can come up with for why Schneider shouldn't be the number 1 guy. I have concluded that this is in fact not an argument but BS that spews from those that fear change for whatever reason.

So here's what I've come up with:

According to you luongo "lovers", Schneider is as you put it, "unproven". Okay so basically what I understand is that in order to prove himself, he has to play a lot of games, but in order to play a lot of games, he has to prove himself. You see how I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "unproven" argument? It's a lose-lose situation for Schneider! He can't prove himself because we won't play him as our number 1! And we won't play him as our number 1 because he's unproven!! GO FIGURE!!!

This is some Inception crap am I right!!!

I can appreciate the fact that some of you love Luongo but I think the people who realize that this is a business and NOT a popularity contest will agree that he has (for lack of better words) "sh*t the bed" on numerous BIG occasions and that change is needed.


I was under the assumption that the argument was... Not you, MG or AV really have a lot of control. NTC puts everything in Luongo's hands.
"Well to solve that just tell Luongo he will be the backup and sign Schneider to 3+ million 3 year deal!"
... no? What if Luongo agrees with that and we now have 8.5+ million tied up in goal tending. now what?
- Blow through our depth?
- Put Lu in the minors and loose him through waivers for nothing?


This argument keeps going in circles strictly because most dont understand the logistics, end of the day we shouldn't be asking who is more deserving of the position, we should be asking "Will the organization ask Lu to leave; if so, will Lou agree.

period...

Edited by Neufy161, 23 April 2012 - 10:42 AM.

Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#75 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:37 AM

He has 1 playoff win...


I think if you knew how to watch hockey properly, you could tell that he's already a better goaltender. If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

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#76 Special Ed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:38 AM

Thankfully, most of the hockey world agrees that Schneider is better.


What hockey world agrees that Schneider is better than luongo?

And what fantasy land are you living in?

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#77 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

What hockey world agrees that Schneider is better than luongo?

And what fantasy land are you living in?


Haven't been paying close attention to the media have you? Shorthouse? Pierre? AV?

Let's be real here. If Schneider wasn't playing at a level higher than Luongo, why would anyone suggest him taking the number 1 job? Why would people think that? You dumb?

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#78 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

I did say...might be able to keep both...but if not...the Canucks will try to keep Schneider and move Lou. Keeping the goalie who is almost half a goal better per game is a no brainer....especially in this league with so much parity and where goals are a premium.

#79 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:44 AM

Well Special ED...firstly....Canuck management thought Schneids was better as he started the last 3 playoff games. His stats are miles better than Lous...you are in denial....

#80 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

Well Special ED...firstly....Canuck management thought Schneids was better as he started the last 3 playoff games. His stats are miles better than Lous...you are in denial....


He's a troll. I've seen his posts. I'm just responding to him because I'm having a great laugh out of it.

It doesn't take an expert goalie analyst to know who's been playing better.

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#81 Zamboni_14

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

here's my take as an outsider with "no horses" in this race, but is in the same situation with my team (Wild and the whole Harding/Backs issue.)

First, there is a HUGE difference between being the "back up" and "starter" for a team. Yeah I know a goalie like Schneider has played almost half the season, but you'd be amazed at how much of a difference that can make. Look at how Manny Fernandez fell apart once he was shipped off to be a "starter" in Boston (he's not even in the NHL anymore... once released, nobody bothered to pick him up.) It's things like that, people are afraid of.

but let's say he does prove to be a #1 goalie... now he has to prove he's a "playoff" goalie, which is a whole new can of worms. Think of how many goalies that looked great in the regular season, but couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Eddie Belfour comes to mind (yes I know he won a cup with Dallas, but he wasn't the person who had to "carry" them most of the time.) Turco is another goalie that stands out as well.

So to say that the argument of "being unproven" holds no water... isn't true at all. It's a very valid argument to make. That said, I also think the 'Nucks need to figure out if Lou is the answer or Schneider is. Either way you will be taking some kind of risk with either "the devil you know" or "the devil you don't know."

What I would want to see my team do (and what I hope the Wild do in our situation,) sign Schneider to a 2 year deal and use both goalies to push each other. You start as long as you keep winning (exception being in back-to-back games.) Best goalie come playoffs, gets the nod in the first game. OR, if the right deal comes along (and in the 'Nucks case, Schneider is a RFA.. which helps) you move one of them. Either in the offseason, during the draft, or even before the trade deadline next year. Mind you by saying "the right deal" you have to accept the fact that you probably won't get a 1st round pick from Columbus in this draft or the next few drafts. You probably won't get a 1st round pick from any team for either goalie (because of the whole "devil you know/devil you don't know" issue.) But let's just say for "argument" that the Wild needed a goalie, if I was the 'Nucks, I would be willing to offload one of them for a guy like Clutterbuck and a 3rd rounder (for Lou, I'd be happy with just taking Clutterbuck since cap space would also be an added benefit to unloading Lou.) A deal like that would help solve the issue of teams being able to "out physical" the 'Nucks (which I still see as being the biggest issue in the playoffs.)

I think the WORST thing the 'Nucks could do, is to have a total "knee-jerk" reaction which leaves both goalies wanting "greener pastures."

#82 Special Ed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:48 AM

I think if you knew how to watch hockey properly, you could tell that he's already a better goaltender. If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.


See I think I see where fans like you are going wrong here. For one you are failing to take into account my main point here. Which is not that Schneider has played better than luongo at some points. But why he has played better. If you're not a casual fan you should know luongo plays more games. And that fatigue plays a HUGE role as a goalie. You play all game with more equipment than anyone else.

Furthermore. The only reason Schneider comes in, is to give Lu a break or when Lu is struggling like every starting goalie does at some point in a season. So as a fan u see Lu lose a game and Schneider come in and win. Schneider is fresh off the bench and looks noticeably better. But you didn't take into consideration the last game u saw Lu was tired and Schneider comes in fresh.

Now if Schneider gets the starting role it's a different story. For one Lu won't be here so if he struggles who backs him up? It just doesn't make sense to move a guy that has brought us to game seven of the finals - regardless of play/stats vrs a guy with barely any real experience in comparison. If Lu wasn't here it's a no brainier. But Lu > Schneider and that's not Schneider hate. It's a hockey FACT.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#83 Special Ed

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:51 AM

He's a troll. I've seen his posts. I'm just responding to him because I'm having a great laugh out of it.

It doesn't take an expert goalie analyst to know who's been playing better.


I think you're a troll, with all your Lu hate posts and your Blackhawks signature.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#84 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

Luongo will never be a "hero" here and is in a "no-win"situation. There's simply too much baggage and too many incidents in people's memories of how Lu played poorly at critical times.

If LU stays and Cory goes, the scrutiny on Lu will increase and no matter how he plays, he will be the whipping boy for the press and fans when he is off.

He is now 33 and appears to be on the decline. He likely has a couple more good years in him and could be a great starter for many teams who need a few years to develop their young goalies. Vancouver already has developed their young talent in Cory Schneider for just such a scenario and to trade him away now eould be to mortgage the future of this franchise.

LU could go to a new market and for a few years, be a hero again. ALways better to go to a place where you are noticeably better than the guy you are replacing.

It woudl be a good move for Lu and the Nucks to part company amicably. Cory has shown he can play lights-out in the regular season and in pressure-packed playoff games. It's his time.

#85 Ṣpiderman

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:52 AM

See I think I see where fans like you are going wrong here. For one you are failing to take into account my main point here. Which is not that Schneider has played better than luongo at some points. But why he has played better. If you're not a casual fan you should know luongo plays more games. And that fatigue plays a HUGE role as a goalie. You play all game with more equipment than anyone else.

Furthermore. The only reason Schneider comes in, is to give Lu a break or when Lu is struggling like every starting goalie does at some point in a season. So as a fan u see Lu lose a game and Schneider come in and win. Schneider is fresh off the bench and looks noticeably better. But you didn't take into consideration the last game u saw Lu was tired and Schneider comes in fresh.

Now if Schneider gets the starting role it's a different story. For one Lu won't be here so if he struggles who backs him up? It just doesn't make sense to move a guy that has brought us to game seven of the finals - regardless of play/stats vrs a guy with barely any real experience in comparison. If Lu wasn't here it's a no brainier. But Lu > Schneider and that's not Schneider hate. It's a hockey FACT.


Please cut the excuses. I've watched this guy play forever. If Luongo doesn't play enough, we need the excuse that he doesn't play well because he hasn't played enough games. If he plays too much, he's going to be exhausted? Schneider already took a huge load of games this season. The argument that Schneider isn't as good because he has less games played is invalid. Compare the 2 goaltenders when they each had 33 games. Tell me who has the better status. It certainly isn't Luongo because of his slow October starts.

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#86 smurf47

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:53 AM

OK Special ed I get your point...Lou can no longer handle the load hes used to playing... cuz he gets tired .he got yanked once every 11 games...had a lousy start to the season...(even though he should have been fresh ) and cannot post the numbers required to be a #1 here in Vancouver !! Open your mouth wider so the other foot fits in !!

#87 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

See I think I see where fans like you are going wrong here. For one you are failing to take into account my main point here. Which is not that Schneider has played better than luongo at some points. But why he has played better. If you're not a casual fan you should know luongo plays more games. And that fatigue plays a HUGE role as a goalie. You play all game with more equipment than anyone else.

Furthermore. The only reason Schneider comes in, is to give Lu a break or when Lu is struggling like every starting goalie does at some point in a season. So as a fan u see Lu lose a game and Schneider come in and win. Schneider is fresh off the bench and looks noticeably better. But you didn't take into consideration the last game u saw Lu was tired and Schneider comes in fresh.

Now if Schneider gets the starting role it's a different story. For one Lu won't be here so if he struggles who backs him up? It just doesn't make sense to move a guy that has brought us to game seven of the finals - regardless of play/stats vrs a guy with barely any real experience in comparison. If Lu wasn't here it's a no brainier. But Lu > Schneider and that's not Schneider hate. It's a hockey FACT.


Not a fact at all...just you're opinion.

As for not moving Lu, when do you suggest he get moved, or do you propose playing him until he's 44?!!

LU has had a good run ere and been given the opportunity to win the vcup on a great hockey team. He has fallen short and while not entirely his fault, he has been the 2nd best goalie when it matters, far too many times.

He still has value and could be the difference maker on a team needing an experienced starter.

For him and the team's benifit, I hope he and GIllis have that discussion.

If you really love Lu, let him go. If he stays and Cory goes, this market will ruin him.

#88 Onions

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:56 AM

Haven't been paying close attention to the media have you? Shorthouse? Pierre? AV?

Let's be real here. If Schneider wasn't playing at a level higher than Luongo, why would anyone suggest him taking the number 1 job? Why would people think that? You dumb?

He's a special troll. sometimes, best just to leave him be.
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#89 Onions

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:59 AM

Not a fact at all...just you're opinion.

As for not moving Lu, when do you suggest he get moved, or do you propose playing him until he's 44?!!

LU has had a good run ere and been given the opportunity to win the vcup on a great hockey team. He has fallen short and while not entirely his fault, he has been the 2nd best goalie when it matters, far too many times.

He still has value and could be the difference maker on a team needing an experienced starter.

For him and the team's benifit, I hope he and GIllis have that discussion.

If you really love Lu, let him go. If he stays and Cory goes, this market will ruin him.


Yeah, sometimes, people just need a change.
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#90 Trebreh

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

'special ed' is your typical fan boy/girl. Only the Luongo fan club thinks he is better than CS in this stage of his career.

They dont care much for the team except the players they cheer for. CS is the better goaltender now and in the future for this team.

The only fans who think Schnieder is unproven are the Luongo fan club..

MG would be a fool to keep a 32 yr old playoff choker with a life time contract over a young up and coming stud goaltender.

Edited by Han Damhuis, 23 April 2012 - 11:04 AM.





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