Zamboni_14 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 here's my take as an outsider with "no horses" in this race, but is in the same situation with my team (Wild and the whole Harding/Backs issue.) First, there is a HUGE difference between being the "back up" and "starter" for a team. Yeah I know a goalie like Schneider has played almost half the season, but you'd be amazed at how much of a difference that can make. Look at how Manny Fernandez fell apart once he was shipped off to be a "starter" in Boston (he's not even in the NHL anymore... once released, nobody bothered to pick him up.) It's things like that, people are afraid of. but let's say he does prove to be a #1 goalie... now he has to prove he's a "playoff" goalie, which is a whole new can of worms. Think of how many goalies that looked great in the regular season, but couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Eddie Belfour comes to mind (yes I know he won a cup with Dallas, but he wasn't the person who had to "carry" them most of the time.) Turco is another goalie that stands out as well. So to say that the argument of "being unproven" holds no water... isn't true at all. It's a very valid argument to make. That said, I also think the 'Nucks need to figure out if Lou is the answer or Schneider is. Either way you will be taking some kind of risk with either "the devil you know" or "the devil you don't know." What I would want to see my team do (and what I hope the Wild do in our situation,) sign Schneider to a 2 year deal and use both goalies to push each other. You start as long as you keep winning (exception being in back-to-back games.) Best goalie come playoffs, gets the nod in the first game. OR, if the right deal comes along (and in the 'Nucks case, Schneider is a RFA.. which helps) you move one of them. Either in the offseason, during the draft, or even before the trade deadline next year. Mind you by saying "the right deal" you have to accept the fact that you probably won't get a 1st round pick from Columbus in this draft or the next few drafts. You probably won't get a 1st round pick from any team for either goalie (because of the whole "devil you know/devil you don't know" issue.) But let's just say for "argument" that the Wild needed a goalie, if I was the 'Nucks, I would be willing to offload one of them for a guy like Clutterbuck and a 3rd rounder (for Lou, I'd be happy with just taking Clutterbuck since cap space would also be an added benefit to unloading Lou.) A deal like that would help solve the issue of teams being able to "out physical" the 'Nucks (which I still see as being the biggest issue in the playoffs.) I think the WORST thing the 'Nucks could do, is to have a total "knee-jerk" reaction which leaves both goalies wanting "greener pastures." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Ed Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I think if you knew how to watch hockey properly, you could tell that he's already a better goaltender. If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Ed Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He's a troll. I've seen his posts. I'm just responding to him because I'm having a great laugh out of it. It doesn't take an expert goalie analyst to know who's been playing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Luongo will never be a "hero" here and is in a "no-win"situation. There's simply too much baggage and too many incidents in people's memories of how Lu played poorly at critical times. If LU stays and Cory goes, the scrutiny on Lu will increase and no matter how he plays, he will be the whipping boy for the press and fans when he is off. He is now 33 and appears to be on the decline. He likely has a couple more good years in him and could be a great starter for many teams who need a few years to develop their young goalies. Vancouver already has developed their young talent in Cory Schneider for just such a scenario and to trade him away now eould be to mortgage the future of this franchise. LU could go to a new market and for a few years, be a hero again. ALways better to go to a place where you are noticeably better than the guy you are replacing. It woudl be a good move for Lu and the Nucks to part company amicably. Cory has shown he can play lights-out in the regular season and in pressure-packed playoff games. It's his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 See I think I see where fans like you are going wrong here. For one you are failing to take into account my main point here. Which is not that Schneider has played better than luongo at some points. But why he has played better. If you're not a casual fan you should know luongo plays more games. And that fatigue plays a HUGE role as a goalie. You play all game with more equipment than anyone else. Furthermore. The only reason Schneider comes in, is to give Lu a break or when Lu is struggling like every starting goalie does at some point in a season. So as a fan u see Lu lose a game and Schneider come in and win. Schneider is fresh off the bench and looks noticeably better. But you didn't take into consideration the last game u saw Lu was tired and Schneider comes in fresh. Now if Schneider gets the starting role it's a different story. For one Lu won't be here so if he struggles who backs him up? It just doesn't make sense to move a guy that has brought us to game seven of the finals - regardless of play/stats vrs a guy with barely any real experience in comparison. If Lu wasn't here it's a no brainier. But Lu > Schneider and that's not Schneider hate. It's a hockey FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 OK Special ed I get your point...Lou can no longer handle the load hes used to playing... cuz he gets tired .he got yanked once every 11 games...had a lousy start to the season...(even though he should have been fresh ) and cannot post the numbers required to be a #1 here in Vancouver !! Open your mouth wider so the other foot fits in !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 See I think I see where fans like you are going wrong here. For one you are failing to take into account my main point here. Which is not that Schneider has played better than luongo at some points. But why he has played better. If you're not a casual fan you should know luongo plays more games. And that fatigue plays a HUGE role as a goalie. You play all game with more equipment than anyone else. Furthermore. The only reason Schneider comes in, is to give Lu a break or when Lu is struggling like every starting goalie does at some point in a season. So as a fan u see Lu lose a game and Schneider come in and win. Schneider is fresh off the bench and looks noticeably better. But you didn't take into consideration the last game u saw Lu was tired and Schneider comes in fresh. Now if Schneider gets the starting role it's a different story. For one Lu won't be here so if he struggles who backs him up? It just doesn't make sense to move a guy that has brought us to game seven of the finals - regardless of play/stats vrs a guy with barely any real experience in comparison. If Lu wasn't here it's a no brainier. But Lu > Schneider and that's not Schneider hate. It's a hockey FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onions Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Haven't been paying close attention to the media have you? Shorthouse? Pierre? AV? Let's be real here. If Schneider wasn't playing at a level higher than Luongo, why would anyone suggest him taking the number 1 job? Why would people think that? You dumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onions Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Not a fact at all...just you're opinion. As for not moving Lu, when do you suggest he get moved, or do you propose playing him until he's 44?!! LU has had a good run ere and been given the opportunity to win the vcup on a great hockey team. He has fallen short and while not entirely his fault, he has been the 2nd best goalie when it matters, far too many times. He still has value and could be the difference maker on a team needing an experienced starter. For him and the team's benifit, I hope he and GIllis have that discussion. If you really love Lu, let him go. If he stays and Cory goes, this market will ruin him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebreh Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 'special ed' is your typical fan boy/girl. Only the Luongo fan club thinks he is better than CS in this stage of his career. They dont care much for the team except the players they cheer for. CS is the better goaltender now and in the future for this team. The only fans who think Schnieder is unproven are the Luongo fan club.. MG would be a fool to keep a 32 yr old playoff choker with a life time contract over a young up and coming stud goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Ed Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Please cut the excuses. I've watched this guy play forever. If Luongo doesn't play enough, we need the excuse that he doesn't play well because he hasn't played enough games. If he plays too much, he's going to be exhausted? Schneider already took a huge load of games this season. The argument that Schneider isn't as good because he has less games played is invalid. Compare the 2 goaltenders when they each had 33 games. Tell me who has the better status. It certainly isn't Luongo because of his slow October starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyvn Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 What has Luongo done that Schneider couldn't do, if not better? Schneider plays a solid positional style, while Luongo falls after a fake out. If you watched how each goalie played you would be more frightened whenever the other team shoots the puck at Luongo. One good game and the Luongo fanboys forget all the games he gave away. He was the best player in games 1 and 2? If Schneider played games 1 and 2, he would have done equally as well if not better. His positioning would have made saves Luongo couldn't make on his belly. You are in denial if you can't see that. Luongo has a fat contract and doesn't shut the door as well as Schneider, why would you keep him when the other cost significantly less? Luongo is a diver also, and if you want to get rid of that from the team, you should start with him. It is pretty disgusting how he flops when he gets tapped. A snowshower can get him off his game, let alone a little bump. I have seen none of that from Schneider. That's how you get respect from the league, which is why there is so many Luongo haters outside of Canuck fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyvn Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It's not an excuse. You have problems with reading comprehension, so let me dumb it down for you. Any starter in the league(goalie) has a backup. It's not a new concept. You see the backup relieves the starter when they slump or they may be fatigued. Shocking isn't it? Only a numb-skull would compare these goalies with 33 games. Are you kidding me? Now you want to completely disregard all luongos accomplishments? If you're running a business do you hire people without a resume? Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It's not an excuse. You have problems with reading comprehension, so let me dumb it down for you. Any starter in the league(goalie) has a backup. It's not a new concept. You see the backup relieves the starter when they slump or they may be fatigued. Shocking isn't it? Only a numb-skull would compare these goalies with 33 games. Are you kidding me? Now you want to completely disregard all luongos accomplishments? If you're running a business do you hire people without a resume? Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigUncle16 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 See I won. U r mad. Easy money. I'm a realist. Luongo is better than Schneider. Just look at the pedigree and the big picture. Schneider is good and I like him but I don't like everyone thinking that u just replace Lu with Schneids = cup. To me we still have a better chance with Lu, if he still wants to stay here. And with a NTC in play it's more likely Schneider will get dealt. Not to mention the history that Lu has with us I would be disapointed if management just tosses him aside. Don't think they will. In fact I think management will have a sit down with luongo and see what he wants to do. If Lu wants to stay and play to win in Vancouver. I feel he's staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Ed Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 'special ed' is your typical fan boy/girl. Only the Luongo fan club thinks he is better than CS in this stage of his career. They dont care much for the team except the players they cheer for. CS is the better goaltender now and in the future for this team. The only fans who think Schnieder is unproven are the Luongo fan club.. MG would be a fool to keep a 32 yr old playoff choker with a life time contract over a young up and coming stud goaltender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangelos Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 I stopped reading after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 If I ran a business, would I rather want an upcoming employee at the age of 25 who can perform well for me for a decade, or would I rather have an aging employee who doesn't perform as well anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Ed Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I hate to throw things like "facts" in here to muddy your argument, but please include any statistics or facts to back up your claim that Luongo is not performing as well anymore? His numbers have continued to be consistent every year that he has played here including this year. So, using your analogy... would you rather have a veteran employee who has consistently been among the very best on the planet at his job AND who you have under contract for a reasonable salary for a long term. OR would you like a young up and comer (possible) superstar who you don't have under contract and could end up being a total bust, very expensive, or could decide to move on to another company in a couple of years for a better salary. Using a realistic version of your analogy, it makes a much more difficult decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He wasn't proven before the playoffs this year. He proved himself this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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