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Gillis Passing The Buck On Hodgson Trade Through His Media Shill


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#31 WestCoastCanucks

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:36 AM

I forgot wonder boy Hodgson, who had 1 point in the playoffs, would have solved all of our problems. Hodgson did not have the speed or grit to be able to outmuscle the Kings D. If guys like Burrows, Kesler, and Higgins couldn't do it, Hodgson wouldn't either.

Our problems ran deeper than having a third line center. If we're struggling for 2/3 of a game to get the puck out of our zone, we're probably not going to win.

I hate to say it, but I'm glad we weren't able to squeak past the Kings. Clearly there's deeper problems on this team that need to be adressed. This team was too good to struggle against a team like the Kings. If they couldn't beat them, they definitely weren't gonna beat the Preds or Blues, who have better goaltending and more offence.

I never said Hodgson was going to solve all of our problems and we'd magically win the series with him. I just think he would have helped. At least he would have helped more than someone who wasn't even on the ice. And you can't really look back to last playoffs and reference his 1 playoff point. He barely played and of course he's developed as a player since then. Regardless, that trade isn't the reason we lost the series.

Edited by WestCoastCanucks, 23 April 2012 - 04:37 AM.

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#32 Baggins

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:43 AM

<p>

AV is just plain BAD for player development. If we drafted a top 2 pick, he probably wouldn't put him in the lineup just because he's young. AV loves to bury young players in the AHL and most don't see the light of day. This has to change. There has to be more of a mix of youth and veterans on this team. Right now, there are too many veterans taking up roster spots. Complacency is rampant on this team. We need some high end, talented youth in there to stir the pot...hungry youth that will push the veterans.

Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, Hansen, Edler, Bieksa and Tanev....any of these guys ring a bell? The truth is contenders have a tough lineup to crack. AV treated all the above guys the same as young players now. Bad play (particularly defensively) results in less ice time or the pressbox. As veterans of the team they get more slack. But they all went through the same AV system.No rookie will get a free ride onto this team. Hodgson was in a tough spot having both a Selke and an Art Ross winner ahead of him at center. And I'd like to point out that the Sedins played less than 15 minutes per game for their first four NHL seasons. Hodgson whining about similar ice time in his rookie season wasn't a particularly good sign.
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#33 Nomorelosers

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:44 AM

Gillis always said he wanted to model this franchise after Detroit...well, maybe they can make a golf date together? Both are weak, perimeter teams easily trounced out of the playoffs by those more hardworking.

#34 Bingo Chili

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:59 AM

Gillis and his ego needs to be blamed for managing to make last years team significantly weaker.

And:
torres, mitchell, hodgson, erhoff, grabner, samuelsson > ballard, booth, kassian, grags


now canucks are stuck with ballard and booth's high cap hit...get rid of them and clear cap space and go big on free agency!

and try and get a # 2- 5 pick in the draft...change up the core a bit.

Edited by keslercrosby, 23 April 2012 - 05:01 AM.


#35 Odjickwillkillyou

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:16 AM

I think the provie needs to get rid of most of their Canucks writers. Botch whines all the time, Gallagher sounds like an old man who is always complaining about something with his conspiracy theories and the rest of them just suck. The only good ones are the bloggers.

I live in Texas and I could do a better job than these hot and cold so-called journalists. It is a joke. I may have to start reading the Sun.

Edited by Odjickwillkillyou, 23 April 2012 - 05:17 AM.



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#36 Bodee

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:27 AM

I think the provie needs to get rid of most of their Canucks writers. Botch whines all the time, Gallagher sounds like an old man who is always complaining about something with his conspiracy theories and the rest of them just suck. The only good ones are the bloggers.

I live in Texas and I could do a better job than these hot and cold so-called journalists. It is a joke. I may have to start reading the Sun.


Well said. If they are anything like the sports journo's over here they are all jackals and few if any can be trusted.
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#37 ice orca

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

WOW thanks MG. You trade a real star in the NHL for 2 scratches. THANKS!!! Oh ya Thanks again for another presidents trophy. I just love these piling up. If your goal is to have a great regular season team , full points to you!


Yeah like Hodgson was going to plant himself in front of Quick and score the greasy goals or win critical faceoffs in his own end against Kopitar or Richards or Stoll. Yeah the superstar and future captain was going to do all that. lol.

#38 unbridled_id

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:56 AM

Perhaps he would have offered more than the those who he was traded for ?

Someone here made the point that Gillis could have made the trade during the summer... Maybe yes and maybe no, but how did Gillis think that trade would help his squad this year ?

Gillis should go before AV in my opinion. The guy is a whiner and has failed so why keep him around ?

Edited by unbridled_id, 23 April 2012 - 05:57 AM.

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#39 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:10 AM

Ditch Gillis and AV, let the new coach and GM build a new team from our core. The owner is a Canucks fan, he wants to see them win a cup.



#40 aliboy

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:51 AM

CoHo didn't find his NHL game until this season, his performance in last years playoffs, prior to him finding his NHL game, is irrelevant. And using that as a determining factor in what he would have done this year is a waste of time.

Edited by aliboy, 23 April 2012 - 06:53 AM.


#41 timberz21

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:55 AM

Hodgson would have made us win the cup. Maybe a game 7 vs LA and another round at the best.

Hodgson vs Kassian. Depending on how the new coach use Kassian we won't know how much of a fail it was until next year.

#42 rkyway

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:06 AM

Gillis is still living off the legacy he received when he got here; eg. the twins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Salo, the goalies. He's done nothing. (Apart from trading away draft picks and prospects that is.) He was never a GM and he's shown it. His terrible trades have done this team in.
- I can't see this team getting better, as there are no prospects it's just a long, slow decline. (If we're lucky.)

#43 Dogbyte

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:09 AM

Just read Tony Gallagher's follwing article in the Province this morning,
http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz1sqsjgdft

In it is says this,

"And practically speaking, exchanging Samme Pahlsson for Cody Hodgson in a lineup already having trouble scoring? That was something Mike Gillis got talked into by his staff but the buck stops with him."

Really Tony? And how would you know that? In reality, this is Gillis realizing now that the Hodgson trade sucked and blaming his scouts and getting Tony to write about it in the paper.

Remember Tony was also the one who leaked the info about Hodsgon demanding more icetime.

Gallagher obviously is a complete shill for Mike Gillis.

Wow, whatefer you wrote .. it sucked!
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#44 Dogbyte

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:11 AM

Wow, whatever you wrote .. it sucked!


There are things known and unknown ... and in between are the doors.

#45 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

As admiring as I was of Gillis's job last year; I called him out for not picking up a big , high quality, defender. In my view, with CoHo coming down the pipe, that was the only short & long term major piece needed by the team. We did do a decent job of picking up depth, but not get that defender. I also criticized AV for not putting a big forward, Kesler was my preference or Torres, with the Twins when they had match up problems. But this year, the buck does stop with MG!

Unfortunately, the team looked in every way like it was reserving its energy for the play off's.

I find it hard to blame AV, because he managed to scrap together a Presidents trophy when its four best players (Sedin, Sedin, Kesler & Lou) all had significant drop off's in their performance. Thats when the team needs young, invigorated, talent like Hodgson to push and make the difference, not get traded. And you trade for a Claude Lemieux type player, who had a cross to bear and would give anything for a ring on his finger, not some young guy who has not earned his spot yet? The team played like it was let down for weeks after the deadline!

And a Gaustad (or Pahlsson or Hodgson) would have been great to have in place to sit Kesler back on the 4th line. He scored no goals & 1 point in ten games, while playing very ordinary. The coach tried all kinds of combinations (Bitz, Lapierre, Kassian, Raymond) but really did not have the option he needed. Nothing motivates a guy like Kesler, resting on his laurels, better than a young gun getting his shifts. Even better if he blasts the game winner past the worlds best goalie. We let the team down by letting Hodgson go.

And even more important (as I suggested would be the case), our D was toooo small. Dustin's Penner & Brown ate up Tanev playing with Hamhuis in game 1. And kept us under pressure jumping into Bieksa (who played like he was injured) after. Edler was completely handcuffed. We needed a BIG smash mouth defender to equalize size problems, and someone to lug the puck up ice. The Kings clogged the neutral zone and our breakout passes. LA also managed to create pressure & turnovers with their fore-check. Its why our scoring was down. We never even got up ice to set up. From day 1 this year, we needed a big mobile defender (Hamhuis is a defensive D-man, a different talent) to take pressure off.

MG did not give AV the right players; and No crappy article will have much influence on that!



Just read Tony Gallagher's follwing article in the Province this morning,
http://www.theprovin...l#ixzz1sqsjgdft

In it is says this,

"And practically speaking, exchanging Samme Pahlsson for Cody Hodgson in a lineup already having trouble scoring? That was something Mike Gillis got talked into by his staff but the buck stops with him."

Really Tony? And how would you know that? In reality, this is Gillis realizing now that the Hodgson trade sucked and blaming his scouts and getting Tony to write about it in the paper.

Remember Tony was also the one who leaked the info about Hodsgon demanding more icetime.

Gallagher obviously is a complete shill for Mike Gillis.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 23 April 2012 - 07:21 AM.


#46 avelanch

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

Newell Brown can't get the powerplay to work = Fail

Rick Bowness can't get the D pairings right and they continue to meltdown = Fail

AV mixes lines and can't get the team to produce offensively = Fail

I don't see how any of the coaching staff survives this, except for maybe Rollie Melanson.

agreed but even lou had worse numbers than last year, but I don't think that's the fault of rollie. Schneider had better numbers than last year and with even more games, so he obviously had an increase in performance under rollie.

#47 TheWheeler

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

I do like Gillis, but he really hasn't done anything to justify being a "great" GM. The core is from Burke/Nonis and all he's done is manage to sign extensions.

He trades away the brightest star forward prospect we've had in... Since the Sedins?

NONE of the trades he has made has really made us better.

The Hamhuis signing was probably the easiest he could ever have made - Hamhuis did have his rights traded 2x, and then it was basically him telling Gillis "I'm playing for Vancouver".

So yeah, nothing really outstanding on Gillis' part.... I am SURE the Aquilini's will look at the management of this team. They just lost probably around $10,000,000 with Vancouver not playing as they should and going further.





AS FOR AV...
NOBODY knows how Hodgson would have done in the playoffs. NOBODY knows how Grabner would have done with another year here in Van. NOBODY knows how Shirokov would have done given a fair chance. So people can stop saying "So and so wouldn't have done anything in the playoffs anyways". You don't know that.
What we DO know is that those 3 players were all skilled players. And AV has effectively depleted our skilled prospect pool, which is a HUGE blow to the team. Yes Gillis traded them, but AV dictated how they were being used. If they weren't being used, Gillis had to do something with them.

I highly doubt Gillis gets canned. AV on the other really needs to go. There has been too much subtraction of skilled young players for the average plug. And I'm pretty tired of it.

#48 Nino

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:27 AM

You can't put this on Gillis.

Was he the one playing out there? No.

How many of our payers actually showed up for any of the games?

Burrows - 1 goal, Kesler - 0 goals, Booth - 0 goals, Raymond - 0 goals, Higgins -0 goals, Hansen - 1 goal, Pahlsson - 1 goal.

We had no offence other than a couple of players. And our D couldn't even get the puck out of our zone.

Hodgson would not have made the any difference in this series.


And you know hodgson would not of helped because? Help me out here I'm not sure, take away 3rd scorer and it hurts the team.

#49 nuck nit

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:35 AM

I'm not arguing if it was a good trade, I'm arguing if he would have been the difference maker in this series, and the answer is no.


Arguing it was a good trade when we lacked scoring and the return sat in the pressbox is obvious.

Arguing that Cody's scoring would not have made a difference is an unknown.

We do know what Kassian did for the team and what Hodgson did when he was here.

#50 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:36 AM

Is it totally unpalatable that AV talked MG into the deadline deals? A good GM gives his coach the proper tools. You wouldn't see Doug Armstrong sign Semin in the offseason, because he wouldn't jell with Hitchcock's style of play.
AV wanted 2 shutdown lines. He got them.

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#51 aliboy

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:43 AM

Is it totally unpalatable that AV talked MG into the deadline deals? A good GM gives his coach the proper tools. You wouldn't see Doug Armstrong sign Semin in the offseason, because he wouldn't jell with Hitchcock's style of play.
AV wanted 2 shutdown lines. He got them.


The deadline deals did not give us the proper tools, the CoHo deal made a contending team weaker.

#52 Lotsofloveforcody

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:01 AM

I think we need to calm down.

Firstly MG will NOT get rid of AV, not this year at least. That is not his style, he is a guy with a moral ethic and he knows it is easy to have a pat season after the kind of season we had last year. Even then we came through and won the PT.

We had players recovering from injury and we had players who we thought might have made a difference getting injured before we got going. The fact is however we were unable to acquire the type of player that would have made a real difference in the top 6 and in the defence.

I for one was really annoyed at the Booth trade and am on record at the time. I took the time to go back using GC Live and look at his style and performance in Florida. I thought then, that his style wouldn't change with us and it hasn't. His one handed play gives him little or no options. He is not a bust yet, but he needs to change style and play a team game, that is the only way he will be effective.

We thought we had depth but in the SC physical impact and ability to snipe goals trumps depth. Too many of our players lost form and too many were too similar. Even a player who has lost his scoring touch can make an impact if he is big enough.

Regards Hodgson, I agree with DN above. He wasn't going to alter the course of these games. In fact I suspect he would have been ground out of them due to his lack of speed and physicality. What we needed was a Perry or a Getzlaf, we got Kassian.

I still think we need to give AV and his coaches another season but even they will know this market has limited patience. MG in my opinion let AV down in that he, over the season, failed to get the big gritty sniper or the imposing D AV really needed. The two pieces in fact most of us KNEW we needed. He must get them now because bargain basement, and rehab acquisitions only get you so far in the long run

LA invested in Richards and Carter. Two players who were instrumental in putting us out. Gillis must make a similar move if we are to impose ourselves on our opponents.

Um? Richards and Carter instrumental? what did they do? Ill give Richards game 1 but aside from that we got beat by the LA kings fourth line plugs. Just Brutal

#53 rb4u

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:06 AM

You can't put this on Gillis.
Was he the one playing out there? No.
How many of our payers actually showed up for any of the games?
Burrows - 1 goal, Kesler - 0 goals, Booth - 0 goals, Raymond - 0 goals, Higgins -0 goals, Hansen - 1 goal, Pahlsson - 1 goal.
We had no offence other than a couple of players. And our D couldn't even get the puck out of our zone.
Hodgson would not have made the any difference in this series.


Sure you can. The decisions he made (not resigning Erhoff and trading CoHo) drastically changed the style of play. I won't have a hard imagining CoHo helping the 2nd PP unit during the first 3 games of this series...

MG should fire AV and get a coach in here who is more willing to work with our young talent and actually let them play. Enough with hindering the development of our young players. I know we're built like the Detroit model, but I find it frustrating drafting players we never see (if at all) until years down the road, even if they have the talent to step in sooner. It sure would be nice to do what Philly did and re-tool this team with the assets we have and acquire some top franchise type youth. This team is getting old and we need to transition this team now onto a post Sedin era path before it's too late to get anything for the assets we have. Let's get some young guns like Philadelphia did. It worked for them quite well and with no drop-off in team performance. The truth of the matter is we have to give up assets to get assets and they won't be easy decisions but MG needs to be more bold like Holmgren and rework this roster. It needs attention.


That seems to be your position based on both posts you've made in this post. Question to you... If AV's mandate is to win at all costs (ie. win the cup), then how can you expect him to be developing young talent?IMHO developing young talent (on cup aspiring teams like the Canucks) fall squarely on the coaching staff of the Farm Team. There needs to be constant dialogue between the parent and farm teams on the projected roles of their prospects so that pieces can be plugged in seamlessly. Which coach out there would be a candidate for replacement?

And during those times that we WERE able to get the puck out of our zone, we need someone who can shoot the puck worth a damn. Here's a little known fact. This year, out of all of our forwards, Cody Hodgson had the highest goals/shots of 15.4%.

It's so easy to say "oh yea so-and-so wouldn't have made a difference", when in fact, it's usually only a couple of players that make a difference in a playoff series. I would take my chances with Hodgson over Kassian and/or Kesler.


We are in agreement on this one. Our defense missed Erhorff more than most would like to admit. The cascading effect on the rest of our Dmen playing out of their comfort level was evident.

This season (post-season) was a failure by the organization as a whole. No one person is to blame. The Canucks are one of the best coached teams in the league. Back to back President's trophies proves that. At the end of the day we only lost 22 games in an 82 game season, winning much tighter games than we did last year when we only lost 19 in regulation.

Gillis came up short on a few things this year. Booth was a solid acquisition in theory, so was Pahlsson and Gragnani. The only trade he really dropped the ball on was Hodgeson-Kassian trade.

Some really tough decisions will need to be made in the offseason to solidify our roster.

Say what you want about AV but he has consistently coached this team to the top of the league since he's been here. Look at the results this post-season in terms of the other teams who have lost in the first round: Detroit, San Jose, Pittsburgh. New York is facing elimination by an 8th seed, Boston is beings forced into a game 7 by a 7th seed, and Chicago is facing elimination by Phoenix who should in all rights be the 7th seed. Our playoff seeding really is a broken system and does not dictate much else besides home-ice.

Right now the teams coming out on top (with the exception of Philly) are tough, hardworking defensive-teams playing a trap system and are taking out the league's giants. I've said this before but this is the kind of hockey that wins in the playoffs. I was hoping that the Canucks would learn this lesson from last year's playoff heartbreak but we lost sight of what we needed to do to win in the end.

I look forward to next season and hope that Gillis is able to make some necessary adjustments for the better without drastically altering the makeup of the team. We have a really good group, there are just a few holes we need filled but aside from that we are still one of the deepest and most-skilled teams in the league.


Best post in this thread. In particular you analysis on MG and AV.


#54 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:09 AM

The deadline deals did not give us the proper tools, the CoHo deal made a contending team weaker.


The deal gave AV the tools he thought the team would need. And honestly, I don't think Hodgson would have gotten the 14 minutes of ATOI that Pahlsson got. In a defensively tight series, Hodgson would have sat on the bench or in the press box.

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#55 cripplereh

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:15 AM

Its all media hype.i mean thats Tony's job is to state what he sees and that is not always the way it is.MG said he would trade any unhappy player and he got what he thought was the best deal.the players we got back are still young so dont go thinking they wont be good.AV well what can you say he did his best with what he had, the Canucks did for 70% of the series play as good and better then LA but we lost.So dont go blamming the coaches or goalies, its a team game and LA just had better luck.I think the team will take a hard look at players and decide which goalie to trade the best deal right now would be with edmonton for two first round picks including this years and whatever else we could get for schnieder, even though I think luo should be the one dealt to an eastern team for a 40 goal scorer and ehatever else we can get.The second line needs a pure goal scorer for us to reach the next level and one good stay at home D man who can hand out punishment.
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#56 NuxFan09

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:20 AM

I'm one of the few who really likes Gallagher and appreciates his approach to writing his columns. Sometimes he can be a bit negative but honestly, I'd rather read a guy tell it like it is, a guy who writes like he relates to the fans, than a cheerleader or someone who writes without any hint of personal investment in the team. Journalism is supposed to be objective, yes, but personally I like a bit of feeling and emotion and from that article I can tell Gallagher is upset at the Canucks this year. THAT is what I want to read. I watched the game, I don't need a report on it.

Kudos, Gallagher.

#57 aliboy

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:22 AM

The deal gave AV the tools he thought the team would need. And honestly, I don't think Hodgson would have gotten the 14 minutes of ATOI that Pahlsson got. In a defensively tight series, Hodgson would have sat on the bench or in the press box.


Regardless, it did not gve the team the tools it needed and I disagree with your assumption regarding CoHo. At the very least he would have seen significant second unit power play time.

Edited by aliboy, 23 April 2012 - 08:23 AM.


#58 Shoot Speed/Kill Light

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:26 AM

Big changes aren't necessary, and Gillis is smart enough to not make them.

Biggest mistake they can make is to blow up a team that's as good as this one. All it needs is some upgrades in certain areas and they'll be ready to take a longer run next season.

A long offseason should benefit this team alot. Clearly they didn't have it in them this season after last years crushing defeat.


Big changes worked for Philly. They made the finals in 2010 and blew up their core soon after. Now look at them. Hungrier, faster, younger, bigger, tougher, etc.

minor tinkering won't work with this team. They're going to have to make some significant moves in order to get to the next level.

Edited by Shoot Speed/Kill Light, 23 April 2012 - 08:28 AM.


#59 Average Joe

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:36 AM

Time to build a team with TRAP system. TRAP wins game. So far all 4 western conference team are winning because of TRAP system. Please stop with exciting hockey team and infuse TRAP system so we can win the cup.
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#60 NuxFan09

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:39 AM

Big changes worked for Philly. They made the finals in 2010 and blew up their core soon after. Now look at them. Hungrier, faster, younger, bigger, tougher, etc.

minor tinkering won't work with this team. They're going to have to make some significant moves in order to get to the next level.


I agree completely, but I don't think Gillis needs to go and make big trades to accomplish the kind of change Philly went through. In a nutshell, what Philly did was get much younger. The Canucks can do that without trading for it. I'd rather they keep their picks and core players and get some future talents out of the draft.

I'm as pissed off at Kesler's performance all year, especially in the playoffs, as any of you, but Kesler just is not a guy you trade. If it's the same thing with him next year, then yeah, maybe time for a change of scenery. But he's one year removed from a Selke and he can be an absolute beast when he wants to be. He just has some issues he needs to figure out, whether they're physical/emotional or whatever.




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