Snake Doctor Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just the idea he is willing to trade his no trade clause is the reason why this guy is a team player. He is a former captain and a good guy in the dressing room. I would trade Schnieder, but hey, what do I know right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thecup Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Just the idea he is willing to trade his no trade clause is the reason why this guy is a team player. He is a former captain and a good guy in the dressing room. I would trade Schnieder, but hey, what do I know right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thecup Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This is exactly how more people need to think. Have two phenomenal goalies split a season, 41 games each, both fully rested and playing they're A-game every night! This mentality of having a #1 and a backup has to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordfish Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Wouldn't be shocked to see both stay, ala Thomas and Rask a few years back, but... The team has a few serious holes in the roster to fill, and it doesn't make any sense to have an elite player sit on the bench with a ball cap on and leave those holes unfilled. Roberto or Cory are the team's biggest trade assets. It's a business. And the smart business move here is, with both players being essentially equal in their ability, you keep the guy who is younger and makes less money. As for the guy who questioned Schneider's emotional strength, eg 'how will he respond to the adversity of being pulled or having bad games'... Cory has played the game before he got to the NHL. He was mentally strong enough to win 'goalie of the year' and take his team to the Calder Cup Final in the AHL, mentally strong enough to backstop the American junior team to a Silver medal and mentally strong enough to lead his team to back-to-back NCAA Finals in college. Not to mention the fact that he's been an NHL backup for two years and hasn't shown any signs of crumbling under pressure. I think he'll be OK. And as for Lou's contract, keep it in perspective, people. He won't play until he's 45. At most, he may play another 6 or 7 years. The cap hit is 5.3 mil, which is less than the cap hit for Kiprusoff, Thomas or Lundqvuist, and the actual payout over the next 6 years is 6.7 million per. Luongo makes pretty much any team an automatic playoff contender. Given home playoff dates are worth 2 mil per, a first round appearance where you play 3 games at home pretty much pays Lou's salary. It's a pricey deal, but hardly onerous for one the games best goaltenders. Believe me, there are teams out there would take on his salary in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Carell Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Why do I feel like this was where it all started to go wrong... http://video.nhl.com...=20082009,3,244 Edit: Clear the puck, Mitchell. Just a little higher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Score Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Luongo for Price... send them both home!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get real canuck fans Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I didn't say nobody would want Loungo. I know a lot of teams would like to have him....well....given his contract, a few teams probably would like to have him. What I was suggesting was that nobody would want him and his contract and history, over Schneider and his contract (or lack thereof) and his potential. That's why, when Schneider is available via offer sheets, why would anyone trade valuable players for Luongo? That's why Luongo does not get traded before Schneider gets signed, but then how do the owners sign Schneider without moving Luongo? Especially without being able to gaurantee Schneider that #1 role that he clearly is looking for. Luongo is too good, too proud, and too bloody expensive to play back-up. Schneider is too good, too hungry, and has too much potential to agree to continue to play back-up. You can't have both, and I don't see you moving Luongo while Schneider is available to other teams, and I don't see Schneider agreeing to sign while Luongo is still around...therefor, I don't see Luongo being traded. I agree, there are a few teams that may want him, but given the circumstances, I'd say they would rather take a risk on Schneider than a risk on Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorseGem2007 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Everyone is assuming Schneider would actually want to stay in this hot mess of a city instead of going to a good team that is under much less scrutiny and without fickle fans. I don't think he is that impressed with Vancouver. But if he did stay and Lu did go to Tampa, for example, and then went further with Stamkos and co. than Vancouver with Schneids.... ooh, now that would be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suolucidir Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This was probably our best year of goaltending since Lu's first year here. Regular season AND playoffs. Our defence was weak during most of the season, and our offence fell flat at the end. I like what we have coming up in youth on D, but it feels like we need some added punch up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuxFan09 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Here is why I don't think Luongo is going anywhere: No one wants his contract. How are you going to convince someone not only to take him for free, but to trade valuable players in return with the monster contract that you guys gave him? Especially when any team that needs a goalie could just offer Schneider a large (but much less daunting) contract via offer sheet that you would not be able to match? Then boom, all of a sudden that team that was looking for a goalie has one that is cheaper, younger, and potentially even better than Luongo. Now, in the case of an offer sheet to Schneider, the Canucks would have an oppertunity to match it. But, considering very few teams out there (none?) would rather have Luongo and his contract (plus players going the other way) than Schneider (without having to trade anyone), you will not be able to move Luongo until Schneider is off the market because teams seeking a goalie would first go for Schneider, but then that becomes a huge risk for the Canucks organization because how do they sign another number one goaltender big bucks and dedicate around $10 million in cap space to goaltending alone? What if they weren't able to get rid of Luongo? Also, Schneider said in his year-end interview that he thinks it's time to start thinking about himself and his career, and that he believes he deserves a legitimate shot as a number one goaltender. So, if you are unable to trade Luongo (which I believe will be the case), can you offer him that? Teams would rather have Schneider long-term, because of his age, his price, and his potential. No one wants Luongo long term, because of his ridiculous contract, he's older, and his history of questionable playoff performances. So, you're not going to move Luongo while Schneider is an option for other teams, and without moving Luongo, you're not going to be able to keep Schneider. So it's a catch 22. The off-season is going to be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 guilty........well 1974-75 anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 If anyone should go, it should be AV.... Team needs a new coach!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO8!! Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yea, but everyone knew that Carter and Richards had issues with their comittment to hockey. Obviously Philly had enough of it. Luongo has been nothing but a champ and a warrior for this team. He's been involved in the community, he's captained the team, he's mentored young players including Schneider. He's genuinely proud to be a Canuck. Schneider on the other hand just looks like he's biding his time until he can get a ticket out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuxFan09 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I didn't say nobody would want Loungo. I know a lot of teams would like to have him....well....given his contract, a few teams probably would like to have him. What I was suggesting was that nobody would want him and his contract and history, over Schneider and his contract (or lack thereof) and his potential. That's why, when Schneider is available via offer sheets, why would anyone trade valuable players for Luongo? That's why Luongo does not get traded before Schneider gets signed, but then how do the owners sign Schneider without moving Luongo? Especially without being able to gaurantee Schneider that #1 role that he clearly is looking for. Luongo is too good, too proud, and too bloody expensive to play back-up. Schneider is too good, too hungry, and has too much potential to agree to continue to play back-up. You can't have both, and I don't see you moving Luongo while Schneider is available to other teams, and I don't see Schneider agreeing to sign while Luongo is still around...therefor, I don't see Luongo being traded. I agree, there are a few teams that may want him, but given the circumstances, I'd say they would rather take a risk on Schneider than a risk on Luongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuxFan09 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Everyone is far too emotional about this situation. Of course everyone involved is going to have the outward stance being for the team etc. The reality is having 2 elite calibre goaltenders on a single team does not work. Every player in the league is professional, and wants to play - no one wants to just sit on the bench and collect a cheque. I have to believe that Gillis (with the realization of his remarks regarding the Hodgson trade) has done with Schneider exactly what was done with Hodgson - by design played him to something that can be traded and receive the most value for. I've been Luongo's greatest critic for a long time, simply because he is such an elite player you can't not hold him to such high standards of expectation. With that being said, there are two realistic paths unfolding: 1. Gillis let's AV go, keeps Luongo and trades Cory Schneider.Comments made during his presser, regarding the emotional balance of the team, peaking in January, not being able to adjust in the LA series. IMO because of how Gillis operates (by committee) the onus is just as much on the head coach as it is on the associate coaching and scouting staff, the reality is the head coach on any team is the lightning rod for blame before it arcs to the GM. If AV goes, the rest of the associate coaching staff goes as well with the scouts getting the memo to be a bit more diligent and proactive moving forward.Luongo despite his slow starts plays phenomenally if streaky at times and has struggled in the post season, this I believe can be linked more directly to the coaching and preparation for series, or lack thereof.Easiest goaltending asset to move is Schneider of the two. Given that Schneider is RFA, there is still value to his rights as whichever team trades for him can simply match any offer sheets tendered, or can simply qualify and work at their own pace to sign Schneids to a long term deal. Trade value could realistically net a solid T6 player that has the ability to get to the middle of the ice, generate more chances off the rush and provide toughness; a player like Jordan Staal comes to mind (though it's unrealistic given Pittsburgh's current goaltending situation) 2. Gillis keeps AV, trades Luongo and keeps Cory Schneider.Realizing there aren't a lot of high calibre coaches available, the level of familiarity with the core, the team playing with more confidence with CS in net AV is kept on. I wouldn't be a fan of this, however I can understand how it makes the most sense.Luongo for everything he has done for whatever reason has lost the coaches confidence. When it comes to an individual player vs the rest of an entire team, and when that rest of the team plays better with the other option in net it makes sense to move the "trouble player" - that's not to imply that RL is in any way a problem, he has been nothing but the consummate professional and may just simply no longer "fit" in Vancouver. Luongo despite his contract still has amazing value trade wise and for what Luongo provides, his cap hit is more than manageable.Cory Schneider has earned the nod of approval from management, coaching and the team alike. For everyone saying "we don't know if Schneider can handle the load, he's never proven that he can play an entire season", you're already beginning his tenure as the bona fide #1 in a negative context. How about we give the individual the benefit of the doubt, he's played amazing when asked and rarely has a bad game. This is more of a testament to his mental strength and preparation than simply having played in a lot of games, because it proves that he has amazing focus and is ready for every game regardless if he plays or not. IMO it's either one or the other. The compromise is standing pat which I cannot fathom being acceptable by any stretch of the imagination. Changes need to be made, but not wide sweeping. A significant case can be made for either option, fire the coaching and introduce a new system, keep Luongo and move Schneider to bolster the roster or keep the system in place and move a player that doesn't fit with the team any longer and still bolster the roster. The second option however is far more risky for Gillis, as he may not have the free reign to offer an extension to AV. In essence, if it doesn't work next season (Gillis and AV both entering the last years on their respective contracts), then ownership may decide to make wholesale changes and blow up the core (like Philadelphia did) and move out the entire management and coaching staffs and restructure. It's entirely possible that ownership postures such that they give the mandate to Gillis to offload Luongo's contract and keep Schneider thinking long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onions Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I responded to your previous post but I understand better what you're talking about after reading this post. It is a very tough situation for Gillis, no doubt. My thoughts are if the team wants to go the Schneider route, they should get Schneider locked up first. Given Luongo's comments to the media yesterday and what transpired in the playoffs as Schneider took the reins, I believe there might exist some mutual agreement between Luongo and Canucks brass about parting ways and I believe Schneider is or will be fully aware of that so he likely wouldn't have a problem signing long term with the Canucks with Luongo still in the fold, The next step is trading Luongo. You said that signing Schneider before dealing Luongo is risky, which it is, but I don't think it's as risky as you think. If the Canucks sign Cory, it takes him off the market. If other teams need a goalie bad enough they will have to accept that and consider Luongo. What's Steve Yzerman in Tampa Bay going to say if Schneider is signed? "Fine then, I'll just go sign Marty Turco!". No, he's going to consider the next best possible option, no matter how much he coveted Schneider. That's why I think the Canucks are better off to get Schneider signed right off the bat, assuming the Canucks, Luongo, and Schneider all have a little pow wow and come to an understanding of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuxFan09 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This is exactly how more people need to think. Have two phenomenal goalies split a season, 41 games each, both fully rested and playing they're A-game every night! This mentality of having a #1 and a backup has to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 To Chi: Roberto Luongo To Van: Duncan Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Cool - looks like we both staterd cheering for them the same year! First game I saw was the Hawks with Tony O in net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li'l Fra Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I guess the media needed to "scoop" each other and there was no chance to put the "goalie conundrum" on hold for a few days, but dang I feel bad for Luongo. It just feels lame and disrespectful to be beating him, and Schneider, to death with this same storyline. Luongo did a lot to bring respect to this organization, two years ago he pledged himself to us for the duration of his career. He's the best goalie the Canucks have ever had. He's been getting a pretty bad rap despite playing consistently awesome hockey for us. Now he's being hustled out the door. It doesn't feel right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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