Erik Karlsson Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It is not an accident that Canadian teams never won a Stanley Cup for the past two decades. All Canadian teams keep to the traditional 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 so-called energy but garbage in real, line to build the team. But this is one of the main reasons why the majority of these teams were among the worst teams in the NHL, including Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary. American teams have developed a strategy to beat the cap space. They play their top prospects in the NHL early in their career, very often right after being drafted. If that prospect turns out to be an NHLer right away, that would be great for the team. Even if that project fails, they do not have to waste time and move on to plan B and try the next prospect in line. Then take a look at Vancouver under AV and MG. Top skilled prospects like Hodgson and Grabner were kept away from the NHL for a long period of time while their peers were ready to shine in the NHL. Then these guys were given chances to play on the 3rd or even 4th lines with limited ice time and both were declared defensive liabilities and failures after a handful of games, despite the fact that both were the rare 4th and 3rd liners of Vancouver that did not carry a minus rating under AV. MG did a very poor job by trading away a future unknown in Grabner for a proven failed top prospect project who carried with him a big contract in Ballard who spent most of his time in the press box. MG failed twice when he traded away a rising star Hodgson for an unknown in Kassian when his team desperately needed to score goals in the playoffs. When AV had wrongly accused Hodgson taking injury as an excuse for his poor performance, I think Vancouver is responsible for the sour relationship with Hodgson. The problem is in AV and MG. This deal could have cost the owner multi-million dollars in revenue because of the early exit. Under the AHL caliber coach AV, all Canucks 4 th liners know is to dump pucks to the corner, hit something, opposition players or end boards and then go for a change or to the penalty box for stupid penalties, like the Bitz major against LA that cost a game. These players do not come cheap if compared with a rookie. But they together have accumulated astronomical MINUSES in the playoffs and regular seasons under AV for his 6 years here. Vancouver deserved to be beaten by the 3 rd and 4 th liners of Chicago twice, Boston and LA. AV and MG never seemed to learn. All teams that had won the Cup recently had young talents who could play in the playoffs. Crosby and Toews even had become the youngest captains who ever won the Cup. Keeping its young prospects away from the NHL had proven a failure for Vancouver. Vancouver will be going nowhere if they allow AV and MG to fill the 4 th line Again with garbage players who have no future in the NHL. They are just a waste of time, cap space and roster spots. If Vancouver is serious about winning the Cup before the Sedins and Kesler will be on the decline in a year or two, it is time to play their own top young prospects Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian on the 4th or 3rd line next season. If these guys can play, Vancouver will still be a team hard to play against, especially if they can keep Schneider and trade away the shaky Luongo. These kids simply cannot be worse than Raymond and Malhotra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 They should give this lineup a try Sedin-Sedin-Jensen - I could see Jensen scoring a lot of goals with the twins Booth-Kesler-Kassian - if we don't get a playmaker, 3 big guys and Kassian should be better after this offseason Higgins-Schroeder-Burrows- shutdown line that can score ?-Lapierre-Hansen - this would allow the coach to roll 4 lines The team should have a lot more energy with these young guys in the lineup, something which they lacked badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It is not an accident that Canadian teams never won a Stanley Cup for the past two decades. All Canadian teams keep to the traditional 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 so-called energy but garbage in real, line to build the team. But this is one of the main reasons why the majority of these teams were among the worst teams in the NHL, including Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary. American teams have developed a strategy to beat the cap space. They play their top prospects in the NHL early in their career, very often right after being drafted. If that prospect turns out to be an NHLer right away, that would be great for the team. Even if that project fails, they do not have to waste time and move on to plan B and try the next prospect in line. Then take a look at Vancouver under AV and MG. Top skilled prospects like Hodgson and Grabner were kept away from the NHL for a long period of time while their peers were ready to shine in the NHL. Then these guys were given chances to play on the 3rd or even 4th lines with limited ice time and both were declared defensive liabilities and failures after a handful of games, despite the fact that both were the rare 4th and 3rd liners of Vancouver that did not carry a minus rating under AV. MG did a very poor job by trading away a future unknown in Grabner for a proven failed top prospect project who carried with him a big contract in Ballard who spent most of his time in the press box. MG failed twice when he traded away a rising star Hodgson for an unknown in Kassian when his team desperately needed to score goals in the playoffs. When AV had wrongly accused Hodgson taking injury as an excuse for his poor performance, I think Vancouver is responsible for the sour relationship with Hodgson. The problem is in AV and MG. This deal could have cost the owner multi-million dollars in revenue because of the early exit. Under the AHL caliber coach AV, all Canucks 4 th liners know is to dump pucks to the corner, hit something, opposition players or end boards and then go for a change or to the penalty box for stupid penalties, like the Bitz major against LA that cost a game. These players do not come cheap if compared with a rookie. But they together have accumulated astronomical MINUSES in the playoffs and regular seasons under AV for his 6 years here. Vancouver deserved to be beaten by the 3 rd and 4 th liners of Chicago twice, Boston and LA. AV and MG never seemed to learn. All teams that had won the Cup recently had young talents who could play in the playoffs. Crosby and Toews even had become the youngest captains who ever won the Cup. Keeping its young prospects away from the NHL had proven a failure for Vancouver. Vancouver will be going nowhere if they allow AV and MG to fill the 4 th line Again with garbage players who have no future in the NHL. They are just a waste of time, cap space and roster spots. If Vancouver is serious about winning the Cup before the Sedins and Kesler will be on the decline in a year or two, it is time to play their own top young prospects Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian on the 4th or 3rd line next season. If these guys can play, Vancouver will still be a team hard to play against, especially if they can keep Schneider and trade away the shaky Luongo. These kids simply cannot be worse than Raymond and Malhotra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Kassian, with a little confident, is a very good passer actually. When playing with confidence he will win the puck battle along the boards and then make a pass to a teammake (like a Bizarro Mason Raymond). Of course, with Coach V, make one mistake, and your on the fourth line. Fail to fit into the fourth line meathead role, and your stapled to the bench. Soon you can be getting confidence watching from the pressbox. Meanwhile we go most of the year playing a line of Booth Kesler Raymond. Two guys that can't pass, and one that won't (and can you blame him if you know you ain't getting it back?). At least when Higgins was (rarely) on the line he can sort of pass. But the odds of actually seeing a playmaker on the line, even if one is a around, are slim to none with Mr. if you don't suceed try try (and try and try the exact same thing) again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yete Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 dream on canucks fans your beloved COACH AV will be back and guess what mroe grinders and a team without zero skill hurray for another first round exit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canacks1970 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Under Alain Vigneault it's not likely he ever gets that chance. Case in point? Shirokov, Grabner, Hodgson, etc. They all deserved more ice time than they got (although with Hodgson it's understandable to a degree). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 - Imo I keep hearing AV not playing the younger players. But did anybody remember where AV started his Canuck career? Being Head coach of the Manitoba Moose farm team for a year or two. So yes he knew some of the players he was developing like Burrows ,Kesler,Bieska, etc,etc. Tanav seems to be doing fine with his ice time. Cory been playing alot more games as a back then any other backup that Luongo in the previous four years combined. Ok again you earn your way on the team not by how good his potential is period. How is Shirokov doing these days? He's in the KHL not the NHL. Grabner had 4 training camps to make the roster and couldn't cut it. And what does he do to get his chance to play in the NHL after being traded to Florida. He decides to go into camp out of shape and overweight. No offense Tony! But if it takes Grabner to be waived by Florida for him to wake up doesn't say much about his character? As for Hodgson we don't really know what really happened! Its all speculations. I'll keep it at that. Tony I can see where your coming from .But at the same time I've seen the Canucks in the past bringing up their players way too early to a point it hurt the franshice or they didn't have enough patience with their developement. I've seen them do this most of the '80 and early 90's. Players like Derlago,Ashton,Garth Butcher,Stu Kulak,Michel Petit,David Bruce,Cam Neely,JJ Daigneault,Jim Sandlak,Troy Gamble,Petr Nedved Players that were brought up way too early when they should of been returned to Major Jr or sent to the minors for more developement after they reached a certain age. It really becomes what the players maturity really is at that time. What the Canucks have in expectations in the summer is one thing and seeing them in September is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It is not an accident that Canadian teams never won a Stanley Cup for the past two decades. All Canadian teams keep to the traditional 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 so-called energy but garbage in real, line to build the team. But this is one of the main reasons why the majority of these teams were among the worst teams in the NHL, including Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary. American teams have developed a strategy to beat the cap space. They play their top prospects in the NHL early in their career, very often right after being drafted. If that prospect turns out to be an NHLer right away, that would be great for the team. Even if that project fails, they do not have to waste time and move on to plan B and try the next prospect in line. Then take a look at Vancouver under AV and MG. Top skilled prospects like Hodgson and Grabner were kept away from the NHL for a long period of time while their peers were ready to shine in the NHL. Then these guys were given chances to play on the 3rd or even 4th lines with limited ice time and both were declared defensive liabilities and failures after a handful of games, despite the fact that both were the rare 4th and 3rd liners of Vancouver that did not carry a minus rating under AV. MG did a very poor job by trading away a future unknown in Grabner for a proven failed top prospect project who carried with him a big contract in Ballard who spent most of his time in the press box. MG failed twice when he traded away a rising star Hodgson for an unknown in Kassian when his team desperately needed to score goals in the playoffs. When AV had wrongly accused Hodgson taking injury as an excuse for his poor performance, I think Vancouver is responsible for the sour relationship with Hodgson. The problem is in AV and MG. This deal could have cost the owner multi-million dollars in revenue because of the early exit. Under the AHL caliber coach AV, all Canucks 4 th liners know is to dump pucks to the corner, hit something, opposition players or end boards and then go for a change or to the penalty box for stupid penalties, like the Bitz major against LA that cost a game. These players do not come cheap if compared with a rookie. But they together have accumulated astronomical MINUSES in the playoffs and regular seasons under AV for his 6 years here. Vancouver deserved to be beaten by the 3 rd and 4 th liners of Chicago twice, Boston and LA. AV and MG never seemed to learn. All teams that had won the Cup recently had young talents who could play in the playoffs. Crosby and Toews even had become the youngest captains who ever won the Cup. Keeping its young prospects away from the NHL had proven a failure for Vancouver. Vancouver will be going nowhere if they allow AV and MG to fill the 4 th line Again with garbage players who have no future in the NHL. They are just a waste of time, cap space and roster spots. If Vancouver is serious about winning the Cup before the Sedins and Kesler will be on the decline in a year or two, it is time to play their own top young prospects Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian on the 4th or 3rd line next season. If these guys can play, Vancouver will still be a team hard to play against, especially if they can keep Schneider and trade away the shaky Luongo. These kids simply cannot be worse than Raymond and Malhotra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanKeslord17 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyzer Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Good point you bring up for sure, but I truly believe the NHL is changing now. It's not up to that veteran experience anymore. Look at the last few cup winners, all had a young player that changed series at some point: Pittsburgh: Crosby Chicago: Toews, Kane Boston: Seguin This year could have been Hodgson, but I am not going to go into that topic. Flyers have many prospects this year who have made an impact as well: Couturier, Read, Schenn. The Kings have some too: King, Voynov. We do need some young blood on this team, we are simply too old. Our youngest player who played in the game 5 vs Kings series was Alex Edler, and he's already 25. Our core is not getting any younger either. It's time for management to realize that our rookies need a chance at the big show, and to prove themselves, nothing better than a shot at the SCP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bunnies Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Sedin - Sedin - Burrows Booth - Kesler - Jensen (would like Parise on this line, and let Jensen play a full season with Wolves) Higgins - Pahlsson - Hansen Pinizzotto - Lapierre - Kassian Edler - Suter Hamhuis - Bieksa Tanev - Salo/Ballard Schneider Lack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobopan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Why does he "need" to play.... again with these topics. Either he's ready to play or not. If he is good enough he'll earn a spot, but with what 5 AHL games under his belt im skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecoldstevebernier Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 He does not "need" to play. If he's ready, that's great, but as of now it looks like he still needs more development to take the next step into the NHL. Just because you put up a point-per-game pace in the OHL doesn't mean you'll make a difference. He's not better than any of our top 9 forwards and he has no place on the fourth line. If an offensive prospect is going to make the jump next year, it'll be Schroeder or Sweatt most likely, and even they are longshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It is not an accident that Canadian teams never won a Stanley Cup for the past two decades. All Canadian teams keep to the traditional 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 so-called energy but garbage in real, line to build the team. But this is one of the main reasons why the majority of these teams were among the worst teams in the NHL, including Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary. American teams have developed a strategy to beat the cap space. They play their top prospects in the NHL early in their career, very often right after being drafted. If that prospect turns out to be an NHLer right away, that would be great for the team. Even if that project fails, they do not have to waste time and move on to plan B and try the next prospect in line. Then take a look at Vancouver under AV and MG. Top skilled prospects like Hodgson and Grabner were kept away from the NHL for a long period of time while their peers were ready to shine in the NHL. Then these guys were given chances to play on the 3rd or even 4th lines with limited ice time and both were declared defensive liabilities and failures after a handful of games, despite the fact that both were the rare 4th and 3rd liners of Vancouver that did not carry a minus rating under AV. MG did a very poor job by trading away a future unknown in Grabner for a proven failed top prospect project who carried with him a big contract in Ballard who spent most of his time in the press box. MG failed twice when he traded away a rising star Hodgson for an unknown in Kassian when his team desperately needed to score goals in the playoffs. When AV had wrongly accused Hodgson taking injury as an excuse for his poor performance, I think Vancouver is responsible for the sour relationship with Hodgson. The problem is in AV and MG. This deal could have cost the owner multi-million dollars in revenue because of the early exit. Under the AHL caliber coach AV, all Canucks 4 th liners know is to dump pucks to the corner, hit something, opposition players or end boards and then go for a change or to the penalty box for stupid penalties, like the Bitz major against LA that cost a game. These players do not come cheap if compared with a rookie. But they together have accumulated astronomical MINUSES in the playoffs and regular seasons under AV for his 6 years here. Vancouver deserved to be beaten by the 3 rd and 4 th liners of Chicago twice, Boston and LA. AV and MG never seemed to learn. All teams that had won the Cup recently had young talents who could play in the playoffs. Crosby and Toews even had become the youngest captains who ever won the Cup. Keeping its young prospects away from the NHL had proven a failure for Vancouver. Vancouver will be going nowhere if they allow AV and MG to fill the 4 th line Again with garbage players who have no future in the NHL. They are just a waste of time, cap space and roster spots. If Vancouver is serious about winning the Cup before the Sedins and Kesler will be on the decline in a year or two, it is time to play their own top young prospects Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian on the 4th or 3rd line next season. If these guys can play, Vancouver will still be a team hard to play against, especially if they can keep Schneider and trade away the shaky Luongo. These kids simply cannot be worse than Raymond and Malhotra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Man Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 He was producing at a point per game basis but took and elbow and is out with a suspected concussion. Definately don't want your prospects having concussion issues this early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 1. American teams have the luxury of sh*tting the bed and getting high picks that they can insert into the line up right away while Canadian teams are under constant pressure to make the playoffs and ( most of the time) end up with lower picks. 2. What the hell do Crosby and Toews have to do with us. If we had Toews and Kane , or Crosby and Malkin im sure it would be a different story. Scroeder and Jensen cannot be compared. 3. Not all prospects are alike. Some you can insert right away, some need time to develop. People are trying to say Philly is winning doing it that wayso why aren't we. Couturier, Schenn, Voracek, Read, Simmonds etc are on a different level than Schroeder, Jensen, Kassian for the time being. Im frusterated by AV too, his lack of trust in young players is growing old fast. Who cares about another presidents trophy lets let these kids make some mistakes and grow. I agree with your post in general but just wanted to point out some of your arguments are a little far fetched. The simple answer is its time for AV to go. Good coach or not, its time for a fresh voice in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Enough babbling about needing more offence then suggesting we trade for it all. This kid has some unreal skills in his arsenal and deserves a chance at the top 6 next year. It's time to start actually letting our rookies play if they're capable. Teams like Boston, Philadelphia, etc.. They all do it. It's Vancouver's time to do it. I want to see him given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 It is not an accident that Canadian teams never won a Stanley Cup for the past two decades. All Canadian teams keep to the traditional 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 so-called energy but garbage in real, line to build the team. But this is one of the main reasons why the majority of these teams were among the worst teams in the NHL, including Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary. American teams have developed a strategy to beat the cap space. They play their top prospects in the NHL early in their career, very often right after being drafted. If that prospect turns out to be an NHLer right away, that would be great for the team. Even if that project fails, they do not have to waste time and move on to plan B and try the next prospect in line. Then take a look at Vancouver under AV and MG. Top skilled prospects like Hodgson and Grabner were kept away from the NHL for a long period of time while their peers were ready to shine in the NHL. Then these guys were given chances to play on the 3rd or even 4th lines with limited ice time and both were declared defensive liabilities and failures after a handful of games, despite the fact that both were the rare 4th and 3rd liners of Vancouver that did not carry a minus rating under AV. MG did a very poor job by trading away a future unknown in Grabner for a proven failed top prospect project who carried with him a big contract in Ballard who spent most of his time in the press box. MG failed twice when he traded away a rising star Hodgson for an unknown in Kassian when his team desperately needed to score goals in the playoffs. When AV had wrongly accused Hodgson taking injury as an excuse for his poor performance, I think Vancouver is responsible for the sour relationship with Hodgson. The problem is in AV and MG. This deal could have cost the owner multi-million dollars in revenue because of the early exit. Under the AHL caliber coach AV, all Canucks 4 th liners know is to dump pucks to the corner, hit something, opposition players or end boards and then go for a change or to the penalty box for stupid penalties, like the Bitz major against LA that cost a game. These players do not come cheap if compared with a rookie. But they together have accumulated astronomical MINUSES in the playoffs and regular seasons under AV for his 6 years here. Vancouver deserved to be beaten by the 3 rd and 4 th liners of Chicago twice, Boston and LA. AV and MG never seemed to learn. All teams that had won the Cup recently had young talents who could play in the playoffs. Crosby and Toews even had become the youngest captains who ever won the Cup. Keeping its young prospects away from the NHL had proven a failure for Vancouver. Vancouver will be going nowhere if they allow AV and MG to fill the 4 th line Again with garbage players who have no future in the NHL. They are just a waste of time, cap space and roster spots. If Vancouver is serious about winning the Cup before the Sedins and Kesler will be on the decline in a year or two, it is time to play their own top young prospects Jensen, Schroeder and Kassian on the 4th or 3rd line next season. If these guys can play, Vancouver will still be a team hard to play against, especially if they can keep Schneider and trade away the shaky Luongo. These kids simply cannot be worse than Raymond and Malhotra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 You will never know how good or bad a prospect is unless he has the chance to play in the NHL. It was wrong for MG to send Grabner packing after 29 games played in Vancouver in exchange for an underachieved Ballard. No one could have imagined Grabner scoring 34 goals a season, not until he had the chance to play for the league's worst Islanders. It turned out Grabner was exactly the player Vancouver needed in the SCF when the top 2 lines were shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Not too many American teams have been sh*tting the bed more than Edmonton and Toronto. Edmonton even had the benefit of getting 2 no. 1 overall picks in consecutive years but where are these teams? They will still be permanent residents of the basement in the forseeable future because of poor management, especially when they believe in guys like Hordichuk and Ben Eager. You will never know how good or bad a prospect is unless he has the chance to play in the NHL. It was wrong for MG to send Grabner packing after 29 games played in Vancouver in exchange for an underachieved Ballard. No one could have imagined Grabner scoring 34 goals a season, not until he had the chance to play for the league's worst Islanders. It turned out Grabner was exactly the player Vancouver needed in the SCF when the top 2 lines were shut down. All of the 8 rermaining teams playing right now have lots of young players who seem to have come from nowhere to step in and contribute. Vancouver only had Tanev, if any, to show for. Crosby and Toews were forced into the NHL to mature and win early in their career and this is the current trend for team success. It is time for Vancouver to fire AV if they want to take a step forward. AV has been the killer of skilled top prospects and none will survive under this coach. One bad rookie mistake and the prospect will be dropped to the 4th line or benched within games. Next game he would be watching from the press box before returning to the AHL. I simply do not understand why Raymond and Malhotra deserved the roster spots when MG had said that the best players played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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