Canucksbiggestfan Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Steve Bernier trade? Trading an extra 3rd rounder and a 2nd rounder for a guy who just came off 9 point in 17 game finish with the Sabres, was a recent 1st round pick and looked (at the time) to be EVERYTHING the Sedins needed. Unfortunately, two things happened: 1. The Sedins & Steve didn't really click. (How the f*ck can you blame that on Gillis?) Every scout/analyst was saying the Sedins needed a right-handed big body who would go to the net a la Anson Carter to take their game to an elite level. 2. The Blues countered GMMG's move of offersheeting Backes and ruined the contract negotations. Mats Sundin? Okay. First off, he never even signed for 10 million. He signed for 8.6 million. The bigger contract offer got Mats' attention, but clearly you or I have no idea how negotiations actually went down. The Sedins & Kesler ALL credit Sundin for helping them raise their game to the next level. Kesler's offensive breakout came when he was part of the RPM line (36 points in 41 games), who knows what would have happened without that mentorship? Nevermind the fact the Canucks had some serious cap space to burn regardless. He offered Ehrhoff a contract. Ehrhoff rejected it. Signing Ehrhoff to the stupid contract Buffalo offered him would have definitely sent the wrong message to players like Hamhuis and Bieksa who are much more important to the team. Torres went 22 games once without scoring a goal, was the picture of inconsistency and asked for a multi-year contract with almost double the dollar term. F*ck Torres. He never signed Fedoruk, Nolan or Begin. Fedoruk was mostly offered the tryout because he went through a similar tough time as Rick Rypien. If anything GMMG deserves a LOT of respect for trying to help a guy get back on track. 29 other teams didn't even try. Pinner was useless because he was injured. Marco Sturm brought in David Booth. Bitz was injured most of the year and was signed as a 13th forward... Mancari was a huge help for the Wolves. Guess what? The AHL exists even if you don't watch it. Negotiations didn't take a day for the Sedins. It just so happened that on the last day he had to grasp at the last straw. He got them. Who cares about anything else? I don't know how many times the Ballard trade has to be explained. The Canucks had no left-sided defenseman to fill the hole where Hamhuis eventually got signed to play. Bernier was a cap dump. Grabner had no role on the team. If the Canucks hadn't traded for Ballard, Emerson Etem was NOT going to play top-4 defensive minutes. There weren't many good defenseman available. Luckily, GMMG managed to get Hamhuis and all would have been well. Can he tell the future? Probably not. Hodgson wasn't better than Kesler. He was put in easier situations. His agent went to the coach and asked for more minutes. You don't need that drama in the lockerroom. No player is more important than the team, just ask David Poile who has been a GM for 30 years.. GMMG didn't treat Linden like crap? Do you not remember retirement night? AV underused Linden, but Linden credits AV as a great coach. So your point is moot. Linden doesn't work in management because he is heavily into real estate. I am sure GMMG was unaware of Frost's disturbing antics. Then Bowman should send one to Tallon & Burke should send one to Coates. The truth is, neither Nonis nor Burke could get the Canucks past the 2nd round with that core. Heck, Nonis could hardly make the playoffs. GMMG took the extra steps in signing good role players (not Isbisters and Ritchies) and hiring better staff (Dave Gagner) as well as unorthodox things like sleep doctors because of the travel in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoKnows53 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Ehrhoff for biggest 1st rd pick bust in the history of Sport Patrick white. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Bieksa's Fault Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'd add 'poor drafting' to his list of bad. In 4 yrs he's yet to add a single player to this team through the draft - that seems impossible. In the cap era drafting will be everything, I'm certain of it. We've seen the UFA pool weaken every summer since the cap introduction, it's created so much competition for a small pool and the cost for these players is through the roof - it will remain so. You need to have a variety of players in your organization instead of trading your future (draft picks) to make 'risky' trades or signings. Positives - Off ice endeavors have added value to team (nutritionists, sleep dr.s etc). Although it's not a new idea, but I like that Sedins/Bieksa etc have signed for less under his management - though I'd admit it's 'likely' easier to get guys who've played together forever to sign at discounts (another reason to draft well). But this teams image has taken a huge hit in the last yr, and other than bad drafting - this is the biggest issue. Who cares what the media thinks, the players have spoken and these are the guys you want to make your team attractive to. Nucks went from a team 'most players want to play on'1 to - not even cracking the top 5 a yr later2. They've become the most 'overrated'3 and produced a 1st round exit (earliest in 4 yrs). Certain players have garnered negative reputations around the league, so much that they turn up in almost every players poll in a negative light4. Gillis latest press conference blasting a former employee doesn't help. They need to do damage control, and he isn't the man to lead them IMO. 1http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ike-to-play-on/ 2 http://www.playerspo...like-to-play-on 3 http://www.playerspo...am-is-overrated 4 http://sportsillustr.../content.9.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_a_M Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I'd add 'poor drafting' to his list of bad. In 4 yrs he's yet to add a single player to this team through the draft - that seems impossible. In the cap era drafting will be everything, I'm certain of it. We've seen the UFA pool weaken every summer since the cap introduction, it's created so much competition for a small pool and the cost for these players is through the roof - it will remain so. You need to have a variety of players in your organization instead of trading your future (draft picks) to make 'risky' trades or signings. Positives - Off ice endeavors have added value to team (nutritionists, sleep dr.s etc). Although it's not a new idea, but I like that Sedins/Bieksa etc have signed for less under his management - though I'd admit it's 'likely' easier to get guys who've played together forever to sign at discounts (another reason to draft well). But this teams image has taken a huge hit in the last yr, and other than bad drafting - this is the biggest issue. Who cares what the media thinks, the players have spoken and these are the guys you want to make your team attractive to. Nucks went from a team 'most players want to play on'1 to - not even cracking the top 5 a yr later2. They've become the most 'overrated'3 and produced a 1st round exit (earliest in 4 yrs). Certain players have garnered negative reputations around the league, so much that they turn up in almost every players poll in a negative light4. Gillis latest press conference blasting a former employee doesn't help. They need to to damage control, and he isn't the man to lead them IMO. 1http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ike-to-play-on/ 2 http://www.playerspo...like-to-play-on 3 http://www.playerspo...am-is-overrated 4 http://sportsillustr.../content.9.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 that's the only goods you came up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoKnows53 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 that's the only goods you came up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In the four years MG has been GM, he's had one semi-high pick, and that is Hodgson. He made it to the NHL, athough he's not on the team anymore. All other picks were in the mid 20's, and you aren't going to be finding any NHL ready prospects from there. Heck, look at Detroit; I can't think of any first rounders they drafted that have suited up for an NHL game yet. They manage to be perennial contenders because they don't rely on the draft to bring in talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj29 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 1. bernier just simply sucks. period. 2. why would anyone f*cking care about st.louis and backes? 3. sundin's contract was good, he helped the sedins and kesler find their A-game 4. ehrhoff's gone. who the hell cares about him now. except that he was at least good when he was on our team. 5. torres is beast 6. inviting nolan and the fedorik idea was just plain stupid. 7. hodgson was never gillis' plan in the first place 8. ballard is a good two way defense man, why do u guys go and criticize him? hes a good dman. better than Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 i agree with you and runningwild and it will reveal itself next week or so, by which time you will not a see a contract extension being offered by acquilini and gillis will have only this summer to turn it around.... gillis's mistakes far outweigh his success, yes he's won two pt and took us to the cup, but heck if dale tallon can get fired in chicago after what he accomplished there, anything is possible. moreover, getting thumped in 5 games is really a red flag for something is wrong here and with this current lineup we will finish betwen 5'th and 8'th next year, the elite teams of the league have figured us out. gillis has to be sharp this off season or his next off season will be a long one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 You have to realize that when draft a player it isn't guarntee that they can play in 2 years. Some players can longer to mature. look at Tanev he was never drafted and Gillis signed him which he has put in 40 games for the Canucks. Most prospect take at least 3 year to break the roster. As a team and mangement the worst thing you can do is rush a prospect just look at Luke Schenn he was rushed for the leafs and now he has to learn as he goes. As fans yea it is frusrating waiting for prospect to play at the NHL level but why rush the player to play for 10 minutes per game? Especially with AV behind the bench where the prospect player mostly likely will be watching from the stands. Normally Forward prospects take 3 years, and D man and goalies 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrippledCanuck Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Steve Bernier trade? Trading an extra 3rd rounder and a 2nd rounder for a guy who just came off 9 point in 17 game finish with the Sabres, was a recent 1st round pick and looked (at the time) to be EVERYTHING the Sedins needed. Unfortunately, two things happened: 1. The Sedins & Steve didn't really click. (How the f*ck can you blame that on Gillis?) Every scout/analyst was saying the Sedins needed a right-handed big body who would go to the net a la Anson Carter to take their game to an elite level. 2. The Blues countered GMMG's move of offersheeting Backes and ruined the contract negotations. Mats Sundin? Okay. First off, he never even signed for 10 million. He signed for 8.6 million. The bigger contract offer got Mats' attention, but clearly you or I have no idea how negotiations actually went down. The Sedins & Kesler ALL credit Sundin for helping them raise their game to the next level. Kesler's offensive breakout came when he was part of the RPM line (36 points in 41 games), who knows what would have happened without that mentorship? Nevermind the fact the Canucks had some serious cap space to burn regardless. He offered Ehrhoff a contract. Ehrhoff rejected it. Signing Ehrhoff to the stupid contract Buffalo offered him would have definitely sent the wrong message to players like Hamhuis and Bieksa who are much more important to the team. Torres went 22 games once without scoring a goal, was the picture of inconsistency and asked for a multi-year contract with almost double the dollar term. F*ck Torres. He never signed Fedoruk, Nolan or Begin. Fedoruk was mostly offered the tryout because he went through a similar tough time as Rick Rypien. If anything GMMG deserves a LOT of respect for trying to help a guy get back on track. 29 other teams didn't even try. Pinner was useless because he was injured. Marco Sturm brought in David Booth. Bitz was injured most of the year and was signed as a 13th forward... Mancari was a huge help for the Wolves. Guess what? The AHL exists even if you don't watch it. Negotiations didn't take a day for the Sedins. It just so happened that on the last day he had to grasp at the last straw. He got them. Who cares about anything else? I don't know how many times the Ballard trade has to be explained. The Canucks had no left-sided defenseman to fill the hole where Hamhuis eventually got signed to play. Bernier was a cap dump. Grabner had no role on the team. If the Canucks hadn't traded for Ballard, Emerson Etem was NOT going to play top-4 defensive minutes. There weren't many good defenseman available. Luckily, GMMG managed to get Hamhuis and all would have been well. Can he tell the future? Probably not. Hodgson wasn't better than Kesler. He was put in easier situations. His agent went to the coach and asked for more minutes. You don't need that drama in the lockerroom. No player is more important than the team, just ask David Poile who has been a GM for 30 years.. GMMG didn't treat Linden like crap? Do you not remember retirement night? AV underused Linden, but Linden credits AV as a great coach. So your point is moot. Linden doesn't work in management because he is heavily into real estate. I am sure GMMG was unaware of Frost's disturbing antics. Then Bowman should send one to Tallon & Burke should send one to Coates. The truth is, neither Nonis nor Burke could get the Canucks past the 2nd round with that core. Heck, Nonis could hardly make the playoffs. GMMG took the extra steps in signing good role players (not Isbisters and Ritchies) and hiring better staff (Dave Gagner) as well as unorthodox things like sleep doctors because of the travel in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinTelepathy Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 2 Presidents Trophies, 2 Art Ross winners, and game 7 of the SCF say it all. Also, the Sundin deal was 8.6 million, we had the cap space, why not use it? Kesler-Sundin-Demitra made Kesler in to the player he is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 If we signed ehrhoff then we have bieksa,ehrhoff,hamhuis Ballard locked up long term at 4+ million. Edler a FA next year. So I don't mind letting hoff go. The Ballard trade wasn't the best. Kassian trade still don't know who won,so far buffalo has won The only really bad thing in my opinion was letting Willie Mitchell go. But again we don't know the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Romo Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 No stanley cup ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouvercup416 Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 So does that mean Philly gm sucks,no cup Capitals gm sucks,no cup Preds gm sucks,no cup Rangers gm sucks,no cup. Leafs gm sucks,well ya they just suck. So any gm that hasn't won a cup sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 So does that mean Philly gm sucks,no cup Capitals gm sucks,no cup Preds gm sucks,no cup Rangers gm sucks,no cup. Leafs gm sucks,well ya they just suck. So any gm that hasn't won a cup sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonz Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Wow alot vancouver fans are such bandwagons. Ballard played solid according to the situations and minutes the coache gave him in 5 playoff games. From five playoff games, now alot people are saying ballard is worth the 4.2 mil and edler should be traded lol. Than next year ballard goes back to being scratched here and there than the whiners be bashing ballard again. From this five games and some games near the end of regular season when he played ok, didn av play him against weaker fowards etc? Im not sayin its ballard or av's fault but ballard has to show more in future than what he does now in a 5th to 6th d role for me to decide hes worth it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I don't think that a GM sucks if he hasn't won the cup yet but the Canucks have a very special lineup inherited from Burke. We have the top goaltending pairing, MVP twins and a recent selke winner. Our window is small. The question is can Gillis make the right decisions to bring the cup before its too late and not jeapordize our future picks in the process. Gillis's didn't address the defensive concerns and offensive inabilities this year. I hope he can turn things around and get a descent return for Luongo who is still an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckluv Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 you could have just used his picture for ugly but seriously, i think he's a bit odd, and his hodgson debacle fuels those sentiments for me.... he did benefit from burke and nonis -- at least he is not as annoying to listen to as burke ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Wow alot vancouver fans are such bandwagons. Ballard played solid according to the situations and minutes the coache gave him in 5 playoff games. From five playoff games, now alot people are saying ballard is worth the 4.2 mil and edler should be traded lol. Than next year ballard goes back to being scratched here and there than the whiners be bashing ballard again. From this five games and some games near the end of regular season when he played ok, didn av play him against weaker fowards etc? Im not sayin its ballard or av's fault but ballard has to show more in future than what he does now in a 5th to 6th d role for me to decide hes worth it or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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