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Zack Kassian


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#61 canuckelhead70

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:19 AM

Still cannot come up with facts to support your opinion eh???
Here's some fact for yeah that should show you he has some promise:
-Memorial Cup
-World Juniors
-OHL All Star
-considered by most scouts as the most feared fighter and hitter in his draft year.
-led his junior team in penalty minutes (and those wernt minor penalties he was taking)
-fought NHL enforcers as a 20 year old.
All this before his 20th birthday. Not many power forward have accomplished this much so young.



Alexander Daigle was a superstar in JR hockey as well, but when it was time to play against men he was still just a boy.

#62 Bodee

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:27 AM

You say we need to be patient. I say as fans we've all been patient enough. If this guy isn't going to help us win a cup NEXT YEAR, then we shouldn't have traded for him. The core of our teams window is closing as we speak.


That is not Kassian's fault though.

I think the OP is talking of the usual suspects already getting on his case. He is ours now and we should support him and hope he will contribute next season. Let's face it we only need a contribution we have 8 other guys supposed to be contributing too. We didn't trade Hodgson for Evander Kane.
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#63 Burnsey

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:56 AM

the main issue fans had was the stats of the players. Obviously Hodgson is the better player now, but in the future Kassian could be a great power forward to us and hopefully a key player for a long (and winning) stanley cup run in a few years (or next year ;))

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#64 sampy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:37 AM

Most of your facts are not from his time in the nhl and the only reason I believe he's going to be a 3rd liner is from what I've seen from him in the nhl. However, you are right in that he has all the makings of a great power forward, I personally don't think he'll get there. Just curious, what do you think he'll become in the next couple years?

The acts on Kassian has to come from his Junior career as he hasn't even played a full NHL season yet. He is still a year or 2 away from making an impact. The fact he is willing to fight an enforcer at the age of 20 in the NHL shows a lot about his character. He never turned his head to any scrum a teammate wa involved in. Be patient, though I know that's tough for most Canucks fans.

#65 sampy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:40 AM

Alexander Daigle was a superstar in JR hockey as well, but when it was time to play against men he was still just a boy.

1- the game is completely different from Daigle days. Scouting and developing is no where near the same.
2- they are two different style of forwards
3- there is risk with any draft pick, though today's picks are more calculated. Comparing picks from over 20 years to today's isn't the same.

Edited by sampy, 04 May 2012 - 07:54 AM.


#66 RBCanucks

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:34 AM

I fully intend to go into next season with an open mind about Kassian, but as it stands right now I've seen nothing that shows me he will be anything more than a marginal player on this team. My expectation is that if he makes the roster next season that his performance will merely prove my current opinion of him. I wouldn't mind seeing him prove me wrong but my impression is that he won't at least not on this team.

#67 erkayloomeh

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

You say we need to be patient. I say as fans we've all been patient enough. If this guy isn't going to help us win a cup NEXT YEAR, then we shouldn't have traded for him. The core of our teams window is closing as we speak.

No
this organizations mentality towards winning a cup should be forever. that means when we make moves we arent just thinking of the here and now but the future of this franchise. If Zack is better for our OVERALLsituation then i say pull the trigger. there is always a risk when trading for young players like zack....the risk that they wont pan out but you try to do your research and minimize your risks.
whats really bothering us all about zack is the unknown and the lack of patients it takes to see how he will turn out
GOD BE PRAISED

#68 sampy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:11 AM

I fully intend to go into next season with an open mind about Kassian, but as it stands right now I've seen nothing that shows me he will be anything more than a marginal player on this team. My expectation is that if he makes the roster next season that his performance will merely prove my current opinion of him. I wouldn't mind seeing him prove me wrong but my impression is that he won't at least not on this team.

As it stood in years 2000-05, the Sedins were going to amount to nothing. As it stood in 2005, Kesler was going to be at best a 3rd line player. As it stood in 2008, Schneids was going to be a backup goalie. As it stood in 2006, Burrows was going to be an ECHL player at best. Etc etc. What did you want Kassian to do, step on the ice and be a ppg player right away. It's called development.
I hate Canucks fans. I want it nowwwwwwwwwwww or else they're bust.

Edited by sampy, 04 May 2012 - 09:14 AM.


#69 Dr. J.

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:13 AM

Got my Kassian t-shirt already, know he's gonna become a 25-30+ goal power forward, he was a monster in Junior, still love this trade, Hodgson didnt wanna be here and wouldnt move up ahead of Kesler and Henrik. This guy will be our captain one day, guaranteed


A monster in junior? In his best OHL season, Kassian scored 26 goals, to go with 51 assists. These are good numbers in an injury-shorted campaign. However, they are not the sort of numbers that suggest that he will put up 25-30 goals in the NHL. Someone who gets that many goals in an NHL season was usually (not always, I admit) scoring many more than that in the juniors.

As for the captain prediction: I used to hear that about Hodgson. I would have to say that it is about as likely as the Hodgson prediction, at least at this point.

Here is the bottom line: for better or worse, Hodgson is gone and Kassian is here. He probably won't help the team in the short run but we can all hope that (probably with the aid of some seasoning in the AHL) he will turn out to be a good third, maybe second, line player. Hodgson is probably going to peak as a second line player (or a first line player on a poor team) so there might not be much difference in the end. I do, however, agree with those posters who question the timing of the trade. It did not help team chemistry going into the playoffs. Maybe the Canucks will win it all before the current window closes, but they need to be trying to win every year and I feel that they did not give themselves their best chance this year.

#70 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:15 AM

I agree, he should spend some more time in the AHL.

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#71 sampy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:17 AM

No
this organizations mentality towards winning a cup should be forever. that means when we make moves we arent just thinking of the here and now but the future of this franchise. If Zack is better for our OVERALLsituation then i say pull the trigger. there is always a risk when trading for young players like zack....the risk that they wont pan out but you try to do your research and minimize your risks.
whats really bothering us all about zack is the unknown and the lack of patients it takes to see how he will turn out

Wow a Canuck fan that gets it, are you sure you are a Canuck fan??? You know it might actually take a couple years for Kassian to develop.

#72 bluesman60

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:39 AM

A monster in junior? In his best OHL season, Kassian scored 26 goals, to go with 51 assists. These are good numbers in an injury-shorted campaign. However, they are not the sort of numbers that suggest that he will put up 25-30 goals in the NHL. Someone who gets that many goals in an NHL season was usually (not always, I admit) scoring many more than that in the juniors.

As for the captain prediction: I used to hear that about Hodgson. I would have to say that it is about as likely as the Hodgson prediction, at least at this point.

Here is the bottom line: for better or worse, Hodgson is gone and Kassian is here. He probably won't help the team in the short run but we can all hope that (probably with the aid of some seasoning in the AHL) he will turn out to be a good third, maybe second, line player. Hodgson is probably going to peak as a second line player (or a first line player on a poor team) so there might not be much difference in the end. I do, however, agree with those posters who question the timing of the trade. It did not help team chemistry going into the playoffs. Maybe the Canucks will win it all before the current window closes, but they need to be trying to win every year and I feel that they did not give themselves their best chance this year.


Hodgson will be wear the 'C' at some point. As for the timing of the trade, if Cody wanting out of Vancouver was accomodated before it became a distraction in the dressing room, it was perfect timing. Would Cody have stopped us from being eliminated by LA....probably not so it doesn't really matter now.
Mg got a player that he is happy with and so did Buffalo....perfect.

#73 RBCanucks

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

I hate Canucks fans. I want it nowwwwwwwwwwww or else they're bust.


My expectation is that when a team is expected to be a top contender for the cup that their roster is made up of capable players who can give us the opportunity to win. Kassian was not even close to being NHL ready last season. He was a waste of a roster spot, nobody can make me believe otherwise. The fact is that the kid wasn't that good in the regular season and was even less impressive in the playoffs (to the point where he was benched repeatedly before finally being scratched in game 5). If Kassian doesn't make the cut he should be in the minors until he is capable of playing at an NHL level. It was pretty clear early on that he wasn't ready to play in the NHL and yet he was given ample opportunity to prove himself and fell flat every time.

When its obvious what changes need to be made and they aren't made it is beyond frustrating. Kassian wasn't sent down because doing so would make the organization look bad for trading an upcoming star for a barely capable player who isn't ready to play in the NHL. He wasn't the only problem with our roster this year but he was drain on any line he played on in the same way Raymond is often argued to be. That's not to say this won't change next season, but I highly doubt he will pan out. If a player is habitually underperforming and there are any number of players that can play his role better he does, the player needs to be dealt. I'll give Kassian the benefit of the doubt and see how he performs next season but I have a feeling that I'm not wrong.

The kid should be playing for the Wolves, the Canucks have better players in their system than Kassian that should be given the chance.

#74 JRem

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

My expectation is that when a team is expected to be a top contender for the cup that their roster is made up of capable players who can give us the opportunity to win. Kassian was not even close to being NHL ready last season. He was a waste of a roster spot, nobody can make me believe otherwise. The fact is that the kid wasn't that good in the regular season and was even less impressive in the playoffs (to the point where he was benched repeatedly before finally being scratched in game 5). If Kassian doesn't make the cut he should be in the minors until he is capable of playing at an NHL level. It was pretty clear early on that he wasn't ready to play in the NHL and yet he was given ample opportunity to prove himself and fell flat every time.

When its obvious what changes need to be made and they aren't made it is beyond frustrating. Kassian wasn't sent down because doing so would make the organization look bad for trading an upcoming star for a barely capable player who isn't ready to play in the NHL. He wasn't the only problem with our roster this year but he was drain on any line he played on in the same way Raymond is often argued to be. That's not to say this won't change next season, but I highly doubt he will pan out. If a player is habitually underperforming and there are any number of players that can play his role better he does, the player needs to be dealt. I'll give Kassian the benefit of the doubt and see how he performs next season but I have a feeling that I'm not wrong.

The kid should be playing for the Wolves, the Canucks have better players in their system than Kassian that should be given the chance.


Does it completely escape everyone that he really never had a chance to get acquainted with our systems and playing in Van? I mean, really now. How many players, coming over at the trade deadline, can just slot right into their new team without a hitch? (Hint: d@mn few) Especially as a 21 yr. old kid who has never even played a full season in the NHL.

Good god people, give him a chance to train with us all summer and go through training camp before you pass judgement. Chr!st, even Kesler and Booth need to work together in the off-season, and they had most of the year to figure stuff out, but during the season you really never have much time between games to even practice basic systems, never mind adjust to a new team.

I can almost guarantee that Kassian was told to just be defensively sound, and get a feel for things. He cant develop his own style and be comfortable playing here until he can allow himself to relax and not be worried so much about fracking up a game for his new team.

EDIT: sp

Edited by JRem, 04 May 2012 - 11:07 AM.


#75 Snake Doctor

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:06 AM

I feel sorry for Kassian. This kid will be under alot of pressure next year.
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#76 rkyway

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:08 AM

Re Kassian; 3. "character/team-player"
- character player? are you kidding me? Should we forget all the suspensions? the run in with the law? the fact he's the dimmest watt bulb out there? that he's never been a captain? never been a leader? Is that what you call a character player?

#77 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:13 AM

heres the statline of one of the best powerfowards in the league on one of the best teams in the league. gp82 24g 30A 54PT
+15

doesnt look like first line player stats but that statline belongs to david backes.

People need to lower their expectations of zack. He probably isnt going to score more than 40-50points but if he plays a hard physical game and creates space for his linemates than he will earn his keep and have canucks fans cheering him for years to come.

Powerforwards value are not always in stats but the entangibles that they bring to a team and the many ways they can impact a game. Really its the difference between Hodgson and kassian, hodgson can really only impact the game by scoring. kassian can score, fight, throw a big hit, take the puck hard to the net, wear down the opposition. Who is the more impactful player? its totally different so its hard to compare.

#78 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:23 AM

Re Kassian; 3. "character/team-player"
- character player? are you kidding me? Should we forget all the suspensions? the run in with the law? the fact he's the dimmest watt bulb out there? that he's never been a captain? never been a leader? Is that what you call a character player?


All the suspensions? he got two that im aware of? one in the world juniors which was a clean hit but its international hockey someone gets hurt on a hit your in trouble. One in junior was a weird play that went bad.

I believe he got in a bar fight at 19? i recall bieksa beating up fedorov in a bar in training camp he must be a hooligan too. They are young and on top of the world they do stupid things.

commenting on his mental acuity without even knowing someone is a good sign that your bulb isnt exactly bright.

and never been a leader? i must have missed his junior career where he was an "A" for the petes and windsor.

http://www.google.ca...1/04/Kassian_(4)

Edited by stexx, 04 May 2012 - 11:23 AM.


#79 ice orca

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

<p><p>

Re Kassian; 3. "character/team-player"
- character player? are you kidding me? Should we forget all the suspensions? the run in with the law? the fact he's the dimmest watt bulb out there? that he's never been a captain? never been a leader? Is that what you call a character player?


Edited by ice orca, 04 May 2012 - 11:33 AM.


#80 canucks_dynasty

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

I will wait for pre-season before calling him a saviour or bust. But I think MG will want him in the line up cuz he wants to show that he made the right trade.

His limited minutes didn't really impress me much and is miscast as a 4th liner. I hope he gets 15-18 mins a game to show what he's got. The potential is there but he needs to get there and be consistent. Probably too much to ask for a 21/22yr old. If he can't make it as a 2nd liner...then I think it's best for him to spend next year in the AHL and get used to Canucks system.

#81 sampy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

Does it completely escape everyone that he really never had a chance to get acquainted with our systems and playing in Van? I mean, really now. How many players, coming over at the trade deadline, can just slot right into their new team without a hitch? (Hint: d@mn few) Especially as a 21 yr. old kid who has never even played a full season in the NHL.

Good god people, give him a chance to train with us all summer and go through training camp before you pass judgement. Chr!st, even Kesler and Booth need to work together in the off-season, and they had most of the year to figure stuff out, but during the season you really never have much time between games to even practice basic systems, never mind adjust to a new team.

I can almost guarantee that Kassian was told to just be defensively sound, and get a feel for things. He cant develop his own style and be comfortable playing here until he can allow himself to relax and not be worried so much about fracking up a game for his new team.

EDIT: sp

Good post

#82 Hyzer

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:23 PM

Let him have more ice time playing with the Sedin's. If we got a Bertuzzi in the making here...we struck it rich.

#83 RBCanucks

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

Does it completely escape everyone that he really never had a chance to get acquainted with our systems and playing in Van? I mean, really now. How many players, coming over at the trade deadline, can just slot right into their new team without a hitch? (Hint: d@mn few) Especially as a 21 yr. old kid who has never even played a full season in the NHL.

Good god people, give him a chance to train with us all summer and go through training camp before you pass judgement. Chr!st, even Kesler and Booth need to work together in the off-season, and they had most of the year to figure stuff out, but during the season you really never have much time between games to even practice basic systems, never mind adjust to a new team.

I can almost guarantee that Kassian was told to just be defensively sound, and get a feel for things. He cant develop his own style and be comfortable playing here until he can allow himself to relax and not be worried so much about fracking up a game for his new team.

EDIT: sp


The reason I don't buy this argument is that Dale Weise adjusted fairly quickly to our system and was able to be a staple on the 4th line for most of the season.

As a 4th line player it's not Weise's job to score goals but he was able to contribute offensively from time to time with very limited ice time and when he wasn't chipping in offensively he was a strong physical presence. Kassian however, was like a fish out of water. His hits were minimal, he had trouble keeping up with the other players on the ice, and didn't look like he knew where he should be at any given time while on the ice.

#84 k_man08

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 12:50 PM

I've seen a lot of ragging on Zack Kassian on this forum which is unwarranted. Dealing Hodgson may seem questionable right now, and the two will be compared for the rest of their careers, but there are many reasons Mike Gillis pulled the trigger on this deal.

First off, Kassian is only 21 years old with little experience in the American Hockey League. Hodgson spent most of the 2010-2011 season in the American Hockey League at the age of 20 and 21, and when he did play for the Canucks, he was not great. Next year I feel that Kassian needs to spend some time in the AHL getting 1st or 2nd line minutes to aid his development, and when he does come up to the NHL, he has the potential to be an impact player as soon as next season. Fans just need to be patient, as power forwards can take a few years to develop.

Fans have been demanding a power forward since the departure of Todd Bertuzzi, and Gillis delivered by trading for one of the best young power forward prospects in hockey.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Hodgson a lot as a Canuck and believe that he will be a great player, but I think that Kassian can also be a fantastic player for years to come.


Just remember one thing.. people ragging on Kassain are not ragging on him because we feel he's a bad player and will be a bust. They are ragging on him because when you are going for the cup you don't take on experiments. If Hodgson wanted out he could have been cut loose after the playoffs during the draft. He could have also been accommodated during the playoffs (as he deserved to be by AV).

In any case, Noone hates Kassian. i'm sure he'll do great. But this year he was worthless and he would have been better served in the AHL while another plug took his roster spot here.


-Hardcore Canucka

#85 CodyHodgson's #1fan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:05 PM

Can not wait for the next couple of seasons so people can finally stop using these excuses.


LOL same here...
Always will love and support Cody Hodgson, great player, great potential great character, and I don't care about those stupid rumours about the trade. And we lost him, what a dissapointment. Love you COHO, forever a canuck in my heart!

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And show all those haters that he is the amazing goalie that he is.
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#86 Tr4ilerP4rk

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:21 PM

Zack Failssian. (at least so far)


I am glad that guys like you arent the GM. Development takes time. Nobody in the Canucks managemenet expected Zach to be ready for prime time.. heck they didnt even expect Cody to be ready for it either. Be patient with young players or you will never see them become who they will be when they are ripe.

#87 TheCammer

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:53 PM

Its not an issue with Kassian but it was the wrong time to make the deal, Hodgson was producing was more NHL ready and we removed that for a guy who is at best a yr or 2 away .

No, he removed himself. MG just accomodated it.
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#88 nd84

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:16 PM

But how many will actually make the NHL ? Right now i see Jensen but no other forwards stand out.

Schroeder, Sauve, and Connauton say HI!

and these guys have been playing AHL compared to Jensen who played another year in Junior

Not saying he won't be able to find a spot in the line-up but he's not the only one
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#89 Primal Optimist

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

You say we need to be patient. I say as fans we've all been patient enough. If this guy isn't going to help us win a cup NEXT YEAR, then we shouldn't have traded for him. The core of our teams window is closing as we speak.


I think that the long term picture involving a first round future heavy offense guy is really brilliant. This current team 'core' has a few seasons left in it you are thinking of the twins and burr sitting at 31 years old..but keep in mind Kesler is 27, hamuis and bieksa are 29 and 30, booth is 27. Hansen is 26, et cetera...aside from Salo, my personal favorite being 37, our 'core' has easily 4 or 5 years left before they start to age out past their prime.

The addition of a young first rounder means that as our top end and older 'core' members move out of the spotlight, we have talent to move into that spotlight behind them. That is the entire point of the trade for Zack. All news points to Cody wanting more spotlight now, while Zack had a few years to develop into a top line power winger. Imagine 34 year old twins with a 25 year old Kassian as their winger, while 34 year old burrows, 30 year old kesler and 30 year old booth rip it up on the 2nd line...the window is very wide, and if we continue to refresh it with young talent it will simply stay open.

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#90 Tearloch7

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:24 PM

The reason I don't buy this argument is that Dale Weise adjusted fairly quickly to our system and was able to be a staple on the 4th line for most of the season.

As a 4th line player it's not Weise's job to score goals but he was able to contribute offensively from time to time with very limited ice time and when he wasn't chipping in offensively he was a strong physical presence. Kassian however, was like a fish out of water. His hits were minimal, he had trouble keeping up with the other players on the ice, and didn't look like he knew where he should be at any given time while on the ice.


Stop it, please .. your optimism is overwhelming us all .. he is a KID .. give him time to find his way .. or don't .. he needs to condition himself and adapt to both the NHL speed and size, and the team systems .. how old is Weise?? .. how many years of pro hockey does he have? .. wait until Zack has played as many games and THEN judge him ..

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

 

"Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said"  ~ Mark Twain ~
 





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