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Is It Time To Be Fair To The Sedins.


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#61 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:06 AM

RICK NASH!!!
6'4", 220 lbs right wing 30 - 40 goals per year
Sedin Sedin Nash would be unfreakin stopable

GMMG...its time to go all in.
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#62 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:50 AM

Or we do the unthinkable. Ask the Sedin's if they'd be willing to go to Anaheim. Trade them Getzlaf and Perry for the Twins and we get Anaheim's 1st rounder this year, and 2nd rounder next year. The Ducks have the cap space to take on the additional $1.6 million. Maybe it would shake up both teams.

Take our two first rounders, Ballard, Schroeder to Columbus for Rick Nash.

Nash/Getzlaf/Perry. At least we'd have one line that can score.

Edited by Ghostsof1915, 07 May 2012 - 07:57 AM.

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#63 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 07:54 AM

Or we do the unthinkable. Ask the Sedin's if they'd be willing to go to Anaheim. Trade them Getzlaf and Perry for the Twins and we get Anaheim's 1st rounder this year, and 2nd rounder next year. The Ducks have the cap space to take on the additional $1.6 million. Maybe it would shake up both teams.


I just threw up in my mouth a little....no offence
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#64 Bodee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

Nevermind the Sedins...

You want to, after seeing THAT season from Manny Malhotra, promote Manny Malhotra?!?

LOLCheers.


I think Manny will come back big next year. There were signs in the playoffs he was getting his face-off mojo working and I bet after a good rest and a good pre season we will see the old Manny good as new...........I'm always a glass half full kind of guy and generally optimistic about our players.
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#65 Bodee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

Yes and Gillis has never thought of this already right guys?

It is alot easier said then done, the players you are requesting are simply NOT FOR SALE unless you give up ridiculously too much in return. Why would he risk getting fleeced just to bring in a big name guy who can't fill the gaping holes left over from his acquisition?

Selling the future and the farm is something Gillis said he would not do and I he hasn't, cudos on him for that. This core has another 3-4 years left in them, keep the draft picks, develop from within and make smart low risk trades and signings without sacrificing the future.

The core has all the tools it just needs a few more chances to get it done.


I'm sorry, I don't agree.
We have looked further away this year than the last 3 years. And you know what, we are always undone by the same thing. Size grit and sniping ability.

Size and grit in defence.
Grit and sniping in the top/two lines.

At the risk of repeating myself I have been taken in like everyone else with the "our 2nd line is another 1st" "our 3rd line is another 2nd" "our 4th line is another 3rd"...................It's all bull, I would go as far as to say it is almost the other way round in the playoffs.

Our 1st is reduced to a 2nd because we have no hard b--tards on it who can fight for goals in front of the net. Our 2nd doesn't score enough or consistently enough to be a 2nd, it's more like a 3rd.
Our 3rd in the playoffs is almost redundant because it lacks size and grit. Our 4th could have used Volpatti and Bitz with Lapierre centring.

It is so obvious that the real trick is to gain a playoff spot with a playoff team. We gain the playoff spot easily but our team is not equipped for the war of attrition that comes next.

We have depended for too long on our special teams and PP at the expense of a team that can kill 5 on 5 and a defence who knows how to bring down the shutters.

I also think our defences short comings have been masked by having Lu in goal over the past years. He has stolen far too many games than a healthy defence should require. Now we are asking the same of Cory.

If we hadn't had such stellar goalies we would have had that big D two years ago.


I have taken this from another of my posts but it is valid here.

Our big problem as I see it is that after the Sedins, we have Kes and then the bulk of the rest are all 3rd liners in reality. Now here is the downside..........the Sedins are tough but really don't have any push back.

I am beginning to think we need to cut our roster down and go for some more grit with quality. Our "centre of gravity" is too low and the number of players on our roster is too high and too many of them are too similar.

Take LA, they have EIGHT forwards @ over $3M we have FOUR.

This goes against what I have been saying but I have been thinking a lot about our demise in the SC recently (ironically more than I did when we reached the final) I see now that we can't expect the likes of Burr, Hansen, Higgins, Lapierre, Manny, Raymond, Booth (and on occasions Weise, Bitz and Ebbett) to always be playing at 2nd line level and in Burrs case 1st line.

We need a couple of proven 50-60 point gritty snipers. People like Evander Kane, Landeskog, Jokenin.

Edited by Bodee, 07 May 2012 - 09:49 AM.

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#66 TimberWolf

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

RICK NASH!!!
6'4", 220 lbs right wing 30 - 40 goals per year
Sedin Sedin Nash would be unfreakin stopable

GMMG...its time to go all in.


Nash would have to want to come here and I don't think we are on the list.

Edited by TimberWolf, 07 May 2012 - 10:15 AM.

I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#67 gurn

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 10:26 AM

"We need a couple of proven 50-60 point gritty snipers. People like Evander Kane, Landeskog, Jokenin."
Jokenin(sp) is not gritty and Landeskog as a rookie can not be ccalled proven/
Kane would look good tho.

#68 menace

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:05 AM

I'm with you on it but after thinking about Crosby and what he goes through... i don't think it matters anymore who you play with. In big games there is an effort to whack the best players and stars regardless. The game has changed i think and wonder if a guy like Sakic would still be as successful today?


Joe Sakic was a cyborg sent from the future to show us how hockey could be played in the future. Only an industrial crusher could stop Joe Sakic.


#69 Bodee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:40 AM

"We need a couple of proven 50-60 point gritty snipers. People like Evander Kane, Landeskog, Jokenin."
Jokenin(sp) is not gritty and Landeskog as a rookie can not be ccalled proven/
Kane would look good tho.


Yes I realised that about Jokenin, he's not much of a fighter but he's a big body. Landeskog has impressed me though.
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#70 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

It is so obvious that the real trick is to gain a playoff spot with a playoff team. We gain the playoff spot easily but our team is not equipped for the war of attrition that comes next.


This team made it to game 7 in the finals last season only one season ago, what are you talking about? Just because we got handed a 1st round exit to a hungry and well coached LA team doesn't mean this team isn't capable. They had an off year last season, played like crap and STILL won the presidents trophy, it just wasn't their year.

I don't want to see Gillis throwing away 1st round picks and pieces of the core in some act of desperation that isn't even necessary. Maybe this core won't win the cup, so why sell the future and risk having the Canucks turning into Columbus?

#71 Bodee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

This team made it to game 7 in the finals last season only one season ago, what are you talking about? Just because we got handed a 1st round exit to a hungry and well coached LA team doesn't mean this team isn't capable. They had an off year last season, played like crap and STILL won the presidents trophy, it just wasn't their year.

I don't want to see Gillis throwing away 1st round picks and pieces of the core in some act of desperation that isn't even necessary. Maybe this core won't win the cup, so why sell the future and risk having the Canucks turning into Columbus?


I don't dispute that we got to game 7 but we were destroyed physically. That was made clear when the injuries list was made known. We had players in that run who I really doubt could reach that height again. That wasn't my opinion at the start of the season but having watched a lot of the playoff games this season it is now.
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#72 Blömqvist

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

RICK NASH!!!
6'4", 220 lbs right wing 30 - 40 goals per year
Sedin Sedin Nash would be unfreakin stopable

GMMG...its time to go all in.

I bet you we could've landed Nash if we traded Schneider, Hodgson and a couple of higher paid roster players and a draft pick.

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#73 shimy1

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:52 PM

damnit now u guys got me thinking about a kassian kesler kessel line. shorthouse would kill gillis.

#74 Merci

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:59 AM

Luongo to TB

Connolly, 10th overall

Edler, Connolly, 10thoverall

Scorey Perry

Sedins Perry
Booth/Kesler/Kassian
Higgins/Lapierre/Burrows
Bitz/Pahllson/Hansen

Hamhuis Tanev
Ballard Bieksa
Gragnani Salo

YES WE CAN

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#75 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:06 AM

Nash would have to want to come here and I don't think we are on the list.


I though we were on the list...perhaps that was just rumors. Was his list ever released?
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#76 Bodee

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

I though we were on the list...perhaps that was just rumors. Was his list ever released?



Don't you think Nash is too rich for our salary setup.
Perry is more aggressive, seems to score more and @ $5.3 as against $7.8 seems like better value.

I would rather keep the extra and try for Evander Kane for our 2nd line (for Booth maybe)

Edited by Bodee, 08 May 2012 - 11:53 AM.

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#77 rizzuto&hatoum

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:31 PM

Scott Hartnell played well with the Sedins at the all-star game. 6'2'', 210 lbs, 30 yo, cap hit $4.2M, 2 yrs left. Failing that, perhaps Joe Pavelski, even though he's only 5'11'', 195 lbs, but he's just 27 yo and cap hit is $4M for 2 more yrs. 60-70 pt range.

Edited by rizzuto&hatoum, 08 May 2012 - 09:54 PM.


#78 canuckistani

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:08 AM

Scott Hartnell doesn't figure in the Luongo deal. Philly just signed Bryz for a humongous deal, they are certainly not going to move him in his second season in Philly and they are not going to dedicate 12 million on goal.
Luongo is only ever going to be traded with a team in dire need of a goalie. Top of that list would be Toronto & Tampa Bay. Teams who've had goalies perform spottily are also in the hunt: Anaheim & San Jose(though the latter is extremely unlikely).

As far as Perry's value is, if we stick him with the sedins, especially on the first PP, he will be a consistent 40-45 goal scorer (if not 50) and 90-100 point producer. Next year is his final year of the contract- a strong showing with the Sedins even in early season is garanteed to push his price to atleast 'Sedin-esque' 6.2 million but most likely, to the 7-7.5 million value.

This is why i prefer Kessel with the Sedins: 2 years left in his contract, meaning thats 1 extra year to sign him/trade him.
Also, IMO, Kessel is a good value at 5-6 million long term. The objective is to find a player who can play with the Sedins and IMO, Kessel can be that guy.

#79 Jester@wraiths.ca

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:46 PM

Honestly, we've wasted two of the best passers in the game by only every giving them 20 goal scorers to turn into 30+ goal scorers due to their incredible playmaking. Getting to see what they could do with an actual star caliber NHL player on their wing full time would be amazing, and truly something they deserve... Nash on their RW would be a dream come true.

#80 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:19 PM

Honestly, we've wasted two of the best passers in the game by only every giving them 20 goal scorers to turn into 30+ goal scorers due to their incredible playmaking. Getting to see what they could do with an actual star caliber NHL player on their wing full time would be amazing, and truly something they deserve... Nash on their RW would be a dream come true.


Agree...dream come true. Yes, RN61 has a high cap hit for a long time but I think he would be so clutch with 2 fully full on playmakers. Nash wants a cup as bad as anybody. Nash's goal totals with CBJ have been significantly under his potential...he has never had any other very good or very motivated (this means you Carter...jackass) players to play with.
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#81 'NucK™

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:22 PM

agree. we need to actually fork over some assets and cap space to get a star player on the line with the sedins.

not constantly exhanging various 2nd/3rd line players..
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#82 Mad_Duck

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:47 PM

damnit now u guys got me thinking about a kassian kesler kessel line. shorthouse would kill gillis.

Hodge would love tweeting about it though.
I put the F U in Fun!


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#83 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:09 PM

agree. we need to actually fork over some assets and cap space to get a star player on the line with the sedins.

not constantly exhanging various 2nd/3rd line players..


Luongo, Ballard, Raymond for Nash. I like all 4 of these players. I am a serious fan of both clubs. Both clubs get better. I like that trade, seems doable from a cap prospective too.
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#84 Vansicle

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:14 PM

A word here for Burr. I think he is a great player, he was outstanding in last year's run but I don't think it's fair to expect him to fulfil the role I'm talking about. There is no doubts about his bravery but he just doesn't carry the physical presence.

I think it is time to go for Perry or prise Iginla from Calgary. Another player who would thrive with the Sedins and provide the protection and points imo would be David Backes.

This would allow Burr to drop down and operate with Kes and Booth.
A third line of Higgins Manny and Hansen
A bottom line of Lapierre Pahlsson and Kassian.

My questions are could we make this happen and if not with the players suggested then who?

Edit Pahlsson / Manny / Volpatti

I'd be willing to send Burr if the return was a Perry or similar.
Not saying Burr needs to go, but he could help fetch that type of player, for sure.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#85 Vansicle

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

Scott Hartnell doesn't figure in the Luongo deal. Philly just signed Bryz for a humongous deal, they are certainly not going to move him in his second season in Philly and they are not going to dedicate 12 million on goal.
Luongo is only ever going to be traded with a team in dire need of a goalie. Top of that list would be Toronto & Tampa Bay. Teams who've had goalies perform spottily are also in the hunt: Anaheim & San Jose(though the latter is extremely unlikely).

As far as Perry's value is, if we stick him with the sedins, especially on the first PP, he will be a consistent 40-45 goal scorer (if not 50) and 90-100 point producer. Next year is his final year of the contract- a strong showing with the Sedins even in early season is garanteed to push his price to atleast 'Sedin-esque' 6.2 million but most likely, to the 7-7.5 million value.

This is why i prefer Kessel with the Sedins: 2 years left in his contract, meaning thats 1 extra year to sign him/trade him.
Also, IMO, Kessel is a good value at 5-6 million long term. The objective is to find a player who can play with the Sedins and IMO, Kessel can be that guy.

The only problem with this is that the 1st line actually gets softer with Kessel.
Part of that equation, in my mind, at least, needs to be grit. Kessel, while offensively giftes, is almost as non-gritty as they get.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#86 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:25 PM

It's not JUST the same thing, but your not wrong at all!

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows = 185 lbs each. It does not take a math genius coach too long to find a 225 defender, 215 lb defender and 210 shut down centre. This locks down these guys.

Its not so bad when we have the puck. The Sedin's are marvels of core conditioning to hold off guys 35 lbs heavier on their back & control the puck. But they become useless getting it back. So AV shelters them with offensive only starts in the opponents end.

Ths is a problem, the line is waaay to one dimensional.They need this "guy" just to be functional all over the ice.

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about an enforcer, I'm really meaning someone to "attract" the heat by his physical threat.

At present the opposition defence goes out to intimidate the Sedins (to their credit they take it, however they have little push back) If you put someone up in front of the net who is physically intimidating the opposition would't have time to bother the Sedins, leaving them to work their magic.

The players I am talking about ar a couple of levels above the likes of Chris Neil in that they would have a high scoring threat.



#87 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:17 PM

Stewart would be nice, but he was scratched at times by Hitchcock. But like with Raymond, if we got him, would have to be a trade as he's not going to be given up on!

Chris Stewart? 24 years old and an RFA this summer. Might take a lot to get him though.


I like Wayne Simmonds. The key point is that I think the Simmonds for Richards is almost a perfect hockey trade for Philadephia. The give up an excellent player, who is expensive as all get up. They get a serviceable big, athletic body to replace him in the lineup & promote a young budding talent Giroux into his particular spot. They get better right now, pick up cap relief & get a world class prospect & high 1st rounder to re stock the shelves. I am sure MG will look at this formula carefully when selling Lou!

I would assume we would get a Wayne Simmonds type player, Pick and a prospect as our key target!

i would love to see wayne simmonds play with the sedins , he brings an agressive presence but also has the ability to score a lot of goals ,and with henrik setting him up he could score a shipload of goals , but i cannae see philly trading him .


Looking at my notes above, we got a prospect and a depth defender for Hodgson. I agree the return on Hodgson appears lower than we should have anticipated for a good young talent! But time to move on, and follow the program next go!

I do agree with moving Higgins up. Not quite for the same reason, we actually need a bigger guy than him for the 3rd line shut down role. Our 3rd was not just less imposing because of Manny's demise; Higgins is simply not as physically imposing as Torres. Kassian should be taking notes. Kesler, Burrows & Hansen earned their stripes by playing nasty & hard to earn their spot (and AV's heart) in such roles to break in. And I'm not a believer in Pahlsson after the playoff's. But Higgins became the digger on the Tripl H line & they already have size with Booth & Kesler. Higgins is fine there, barring summer moves!

I also believe we should re-sign Bitz. Him Kassian & Volpatti is all the attention we will need to forwards who can fight, but would have to add one (besides Juice) on D. Then Kassian & Bitz could be experimented in with the Twins at times.

Burrows should be on our 3rd line with Hansen and Pahlsson - best defensive unit in the NHL. Higgins should be up with Booth and Kesler - probably the best 2nd line in the NHL. This is where we needed a top-3 winger for the Sedins. We had the assets with Ehrhoff and Hodgson last season to make a trade, but opted for depth rather than loading up. Fair enough, but now we've let Ehrhoff walk and traded Hodgson for a 4th liner who is far too risky to lean all our chances on. Sure he could develop into a top-6 forward in a few years time, but we needed a scorer NOW for the Sedins to play with and MG didn't get it done.


:lol: Nope, no Kessell! Voted easiest player in the league to intimidate by the players. Gulp, Daniel san & Henrik san were 2knd & 3rd! The air fluff line, LOL. Dont mean to be demeaning to the Twins, they are tough, the moniker is not fair. But they do not push back and are vulnerable to size match ups. And I do not see a Perry or Nash as reasonablly safe to expect. So why not upgrade the D and develop Kassian, Bitz.

Phil Kessel? Seriously? He's fast and he's got a good shot but he's softer than a pillow and you just know he'd be no help in the playoffs. The Sedins still seem to have trouble in the post season and Phil Kessel would only make it worse on them. Corey Perry if he could be had would be great, despite my intense dislike for his giant baby face. Rick Nash would also be incredible, but doesn't bring the same kind of grit that Perry has. Evander Kane would be awesome too, although he shoots left and probably isn't going anywhere.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 09 May 2012 - 05:17 PM.





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