Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The Lord’s Prayer in St Albert public school Emily Mertz, Global News : Monday, May 07, 2012 6:10 PM Sturgeon Heights public school, St Albert This fall, Sturgeon Heights Public School will reintroduce the reciting of the Lord’s Prayer. The Sturgeon School Board made the decision after surveying parents of the school’s students. The Board says about 75% of the parents were in favour of bringing back the Lord’s Prayer to start each morning. However, other parents feel it’s a practice that denies their children their Charter rights. “Essentially, in using the privilege of the 1905 School Act to conduct the school prayer, what the school board and the school is in effect doing, is denying a number of children in the school community their Charter rights,” explains Luke Fevin, a father who – come fall – will have 3 children enrolled at Sturgeon Heights.” “In 1988 a senior panel of Canadian judges ruled on exactly this policy. They found that this policy was discriminatory, exclusive, that it coerced children, that it stigmatized children, and that it denied them their charter rights,” Fevin says. “So the question seems to be why – even if you can, through a legal anomaly, adopt this policy – why would you chose to do so?” Up until last year, the school played the Lord’s Prayer every morning over the intercom. Last year, they suspended that practice; saying the format made it difficult for a student to ‘opt out’ of the prayer if they wanted to since it was played over the school’s audio system. So, why bring it back in a different format? “We believe in parental choice,” says Board Chair of Sturgeon School Division Terry Jewell. “75% is a lot of people that want to do something.” He adds, “we decided to go with what the principal and what the majority of the parents recommended.” In order to accommodate the families that prefer not to pray, the students will be divided into separate classrooms while the Lord’s Prayer is being recited in the morning. It’s a solution that’s not going over particularly well with some parents. “Yes, we’re segregating children based on religion in a public school,” says Fevin. “It’s not just two rooms; there are multiple ‘pray’ and ‘non-pray’ rooms.” Fevin says there were other solutions presented to the Board. “Rather than segregate the children,” he suggests, “we could keep the children together in an inclusive manner… everybody share a moment of personal reflection, together. This would allow the Christians to silently say their prayer … people of other faiths can actually stand by their classmates and observe their prayer too.” Jewell says the Board went with the solution recommended by most parents, and the principal. When the issue of students’ rights comes up, Jewell says the Board’s decision is “entirely within the Alberta Constitution.” “We looked at numerous policies around the province; we consulted with various lawyers we read the Constitution to make sure what we were doing was constitutionally correct.” Although a decision has been made, some parents hope the Board – and the parents supporting this move - will take another look. “When they understand that a Canadian court has already ruled this to be so detrimental to the children of other parents, they may chose to do the right thing optionally.” Fevin says his children (aged 4, 6, and 7) have been told by their classmates that their dad is “trying to take God out of their school.” It’s not an issue Fevin anticipating discussing with his children. “One of the sad things is that we are going to be asked to say whether our child is a prayer or a non-prayer, and even though I have my lack of beliefs, I’d actually prefer to give my children a choice, I don’t want to define them myself.” If the issue continues to be a contentious one, the Board says it will re-evaluate the prayer policy. “We review all our policies on a regular basis,” says Jewell. “If something is causing a lot of problems, we’ll probably review it a lot sooner.” http://www.globaltve...6325/story.html I know there are a few knuckle draggers who think this is great. For the rest of us in the 21st century, how the f... Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSoM- Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Keep religion are far the frack away from school as possible. Disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 obviously principal skinner got the sack and ned flanders has taken over the school , hopefully superintendant chalmers comes along and reminds everybody that god has no place in the public school system ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skks_King Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 obviously principal skinner got the sack and ned flanders has taken over the school , hopefully superintendant chalmers comes along and reminds everybody that god has no place in the public school system ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellins Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostViking Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If you need to hire lawyers to verify that what you want to subject children to is constitutional, you`re doing something wrong. Honestly how hard would it be for a parent (or group of them) to organize a short prayer just before the morning bell each morning, it takes all of five minutes and then everyone wins. Then again, if I believed that all I had to do was get my child to believe in God and I get an automatic parent-of-the-year award for eternity, I guess I would just make the school push religion on the little ones too, probably less effort that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBestPlaceOnEarth Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Forcibly secularising classrooms and having no religion present at all seems worse to me than having the Lord's Prayer to start out the school day, what's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 It is stupid to promote creationism while teaching evolution under the same roof. Can't these kids pray at home? I would be moving schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I know there are a few knuckle draggers who think this is great. For the rest of us in the 21st century, how the f... Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Heretic, although we disagree on the whole god thing, I am glad we agree about when and where it is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Your last comment is all that I need to see that somehing like the Lord's prayer is needed in our schools. Maybe if you said something like "I know some people may think this is a good idea, but to be honest it isn't necessary as people have proved they can get along with each other and show respect to each other without it." - or something like that. If you were transfer to Iran, your children would be learning about the Koran and being there for prayer as well. Now...do I think public schools in Canada should do this as well? No... Christian kids should be saying the Lords prayer at home before they go to school. That said - how can a child make the choice to say it if they are never presented with it? I hear time and time again the argument from non believing parents that they don't want to force religion on their kids and want them to make a choice for themselves. I say, what a bunch of garbage. The truth is, these parents just don't want their kids to make the choice - the parents are making the choice for them. AT the same time - how does a kid growing up with say Christian parents make the choice? It's the same. Kids don't get to choose until they are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Why not just start a prayer club that meets every day before school in the gym or something? That way the kids who wanted to pray could do so and you wouldn't have to go through this process of dividing people up into different classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Your last comment is all that I need to see that somehing like the Lord's prayer is needed in our schools. Maybe if you said something like "I know some people may think this is a good idea, but to be honest it isn't necessary as people have proved they can get along with each other and show respect to each other without it." - or something like that. If you were transfer to Iran, your children would be learning about the Koran and being there for prayer as well. Now...do I think public schools in Canada should do this as well? No... Christian kids should be saying the Lords prayer at home before they go to school. That said - how can a child make the choice to say it if they are never presented with it? I hear time and time again the argument from non believing parents that they don't want to force religion on their kids and want them to make a choice for themselves. I say, what a bunch of garbage. The truth is, these parents just don't want their kids to make the choice - the parents are making the choice for them. AT the same time - how does a kid growing up with say Christian parents make the choice? It's the same. Kids don't get to choose until they are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLumme Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 75% of parents at this school think 25% of the parents should have their rights and their children's rights dismissed. Lovely. As Larry Flint once said: "Majority rule will only work if you're considering individual rights. You can't have five wolves and one sheep vote on what they want to have for supper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 75% of parents at this school think 25% of the parents should have their rights and their children's rights dismissed. Lovely. As Larry Flint once said: "Majority rule will only work if you're considering individual rights. You can't have five wolves and one sheep vote on what they want to have for supper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 These are the scriptures that immediately precede where the Lord's Prayer is found (Matthew 6:9-13): Matthew 6:5 - Amplified Bible (AMP) Also when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by people. Truly I tell you, they have their reward in full already. So basically: don't purposely go where people are gathered when you pray. Doing so is being showy, and hence God will not give you any reward for such prayers. Matthew 6:6 - Amplified Bible (AMP) But when you pray, go into your [most] private room, and, closing the door, pray to your Father, Who is in secret; and your Father, Who sees in secret, will reward you in the open. Instead, pray at home. Keep it to yourself. Only then will you be heard. Matthew 6:7-8 - Amplified Bible (AMP) And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. Don't simply repeat phrases while praying. This would include repeating the Lord's Prayer verbatim, would it not? Interestingly, at another time a disciple of Jesus asked him to teach them how to pray (Luke 11:1). Jesus gave an example of what to pray for, covering the same topics as before, but the wording was different...so he didn't repeat his earlier expressions word-for-word either. -------------------------------------------------------- So basically, organizing a public reciting of the Lord's Prayer at school is violating Jesus' commands - it is unchristian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Lord's prayer is needed in schools because a random atheist on the internet called people who think prayer in school is a good idea knuckle draggers? What? Sorry, I don't mince words. You want to force everyone to stand there silent for a few minutes while some kids say "Hi" to Jesus? NO. Iran? So because someone does it worse, it's okay? Why do we look at Iran? Do you want to be like Iran? No? Then DON'T USE THEM AS AN EXAMPLE. If I were transferred to Iran, I wouldn't suddenly change my mind about prayer. Would you? What, prayer in school only good if it's Christian? Wouldn't want your kids saying Islamic prayers would ya? Or feel left out because your kid would be one of three to opt out? There's a reason the CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS guarantees the right to NOT feel excluded based on religion. THIS IS NOT IRAN. What choice is the child making? You present it as if the child can't choose to be a Christian without his school sponsoring his religious prayer. That's not the case. You know it. I know it. You're lying about the issue. From the article: Now... you were saying? You have to get through your thick skull that SECULAR =/= ATHEIST. Not being bombarded with "JESUS IS LORD" in school =/= lack of choice. Holy hell is your post full of usual red herrings and strawmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Check the mirror and re-read my post - I said the Lords prayer shouldn't be done in schools. Hate much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLumme Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 What about the other way around? Where a few, or even 1 doesn't like something so everyone else has to bow to their wishes? In other words, why does the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the few, or the many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Needs and wishes don't have anything to do with this. My comment, and this story are about rights guaranteed by the charter. Basically, the rights of an individual do outweight the wishes of many, if you want to put it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.