We Should Stop Looking At Raymonds Down Side

[5minutesinthebox]

I've come to the conclusion that if you are on here defending the way that Mason Raymond plays hockey, then you yourself know NOTHING about hockey!! Raymond is useless. He brings the players around him down. He kills momentum and scoring chances. He falls down all the time. He is not good defensively. His shot sucks. He NEVER looks to pass. He takes low percentage shots from terrible angles that never have a chance. He is NOT THAT FAST.

Sorry for the rant but I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why he is an asset to our team.

And stop playing the injury card.

[Bodee]

Raymond was the best forward on the Canucks against the Kings not named Sedin. He was better than the likes of Kesler, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Malhotra, and Lapierre (even with his gaffe against Kopitar...a game we won anyway). Where were all these animals when we needed them, hmm?

[Bodee]

The problem you have is that you only see the scoresheet. Raymond was one of our best forwards not named Sedin against the Kings. Yet the so called beasts in Kesler, Burrows, Lapierre, Higgins, were utterly invisible that entire series.

You want facts, fine:

Raymond is:

- the teams best and fastest skating forward.

- he is excellent in transition

- he uses that speed to gain the offensive zone and blow up defensive zone coverage, He is one of the few players on the team who does this well

- he is one of the teams best forecheckers, and is almost always the first player back on the backcheck

- he never takes a shift off

- unlike Booth (who makes nearly 2 million more) he actually plays defence and has shown chemistry with Kesler.

- he is very good on the PK.

There have been numerous videos already posted showing the skill that Raymond possesses, so I dont feel the need to reiterate them. Did he have a down year? Sure he did, after having his back busted. Booth and Kesler were also massive disappointments last season but they get a break for being injured, even though that make almost double what Raymond does?

Kesler was the one who brought down the 2nd line last season, not Raymond. Kesler was more of a disappointment and he came back from a far less serious injury. He was supposed to be the anchor for that line, and it seemed he completely forgot how to utilize his wingers.

Raymond deserved another shot with this team. Had the team just let him walk, it would have reflected very poorly on the organization for giving up a player who literally broke his back for this team. You dont think other NHL players would take notice of that? That perhaps his team mates might take notice of that?

You seem to have this misconception that everything is black and white, the problem is you have no ability to read between the lines. Just like the other Raymond haters on the CDC ,your blind biased is both pathetic and ignorant. Youre not a real fan, your just a bitter person looking for a scapegoat.

[Riviera82]

Raymond is dead weight and he plays like he's got a broken foot all the time. Maybe he gives 100% every game but when all he can do is skate fast, fall down, hold on to the puck on the perimeter and lose it every time, shoot into the goalies crest when he actually does put it on net, and get pushed around like a school girl, well his 100% isn't 2nd line calibre for this team.

[Bodee]

Raymond is dead weight and he plays like he's got a broken foot all the time. Maybe he gives 100% every game but when all he can do is skate fast, fall down, hold on to the puck on the perimeter and lose it every time, shoot into the goalies crest when he actually does put it on net, and get pushed around like a school girl, well his 100% isn't 2nd line calibre for this team.

[Linden Legend]

The problem you have is that you only see the scoresheet. Raymond was one of our best forwards not named Sedin against the Kings. Yet the so called beasts in Kesler, Burrows, Lapierre, Higgins, were utterly invisible that entire series.

You want facts, fine:

Raymond is:

- the teams best and fastest skating forward.

- he is excellent in transition

- he uses that speed to gain the offensive zone and blow up defensive zone coverage, He is one of the few players on the team who does this well

- he is one of the teams best forecheckers, and is almost always the first player back on the backcheck

- he never takes a shift off

- unlike Booth (who makes nearly 2 million more) he actually plays defence and has shown chemistry with Kesler.

- he is very good on the PK.

There have been numerous videos already posted showing the skill that Raymond possesses, so I dont feel the need to reiterate them. Did he have a down year? Sure he did, after having his back busted. Booth and Kesler were also massive disappointments last season but they get a break for being injured, even though that make almost double what Raymond does?

Kesler was the one who brought down the 2nd line last season, not Raymond. Kesler was more of a disappointment and he came back from a far less serious injury. He was supposed to be the anchor for that line, and it seemed he completely forgot how to utilize his wingers.

Raymond deserved another shot with this team. Had the team just let him walk, it would have reflected very poorly on the organization for giving up a player who literally broke his back for this team. You dont think other NHL players would take notice of that? That perhaps his team mates might take notice of that?

You seem to have this misconception that everything is black and white, the problem is you have no ability to read between the lines. Just like the other Raymond haters on the CDC ,your blind biased is both pathetic and ignorant. Youre not a real fan, your just a bitter person looking for a scapegoat.

[D-Money]

Watch the games.

"Fall down all the time" Does that really get you off?

"and lose it every time, shoot into the goalies crest".......man, do you have NOTHING original or ACCURATE for that matter, to contribute.

You speak in Playstation Jockey, hyperbolic cliches that damn you as someone who never watches a game by your even committing them to print.

Do you even read back what you write and wonder if you have a clue about hockey..........this is a player who is selected on a nightly basis mostly on the 2nd line by a 2x PT winning coach even when coming off a spinal fracture............Now either you know more about hockey than AV and MG put together, or as I suspect, you are someone who hasn't a clue and probably doesn't watch the games ...........................how silly does that make you look?

I would have more respect for you if you just came out and said "I don't like him he is not my type of hockey player."

[Hobble]

Positive: He was mentioned on HIMYM

[The Kassassin Train]

Evreybody is looking at his downside.why don't we look at his upside.fast speedy young winger who has a hard but inaccurate shot.maybe he needs the right center.someone who can feed him the puck

[Linden Legend]

Watch the games.

"Fall down all the time" Does that really get you off?

"and lose it every time, shoot into the goalies crest".......man, do you have NOTHING original or ACCURATE for that matter, to contribute.

You speak in Playstation Jockey, hyperbolic cliches that damn you as someone who never watches a game by your even committing them to print.

Do you even read back what you write and wonder if you have a clue about hockey..........this is a player who is selected on a nightly basis mostly on the 2nd line by a 2x PT winning coach even when coming off a spinal fracture............Now either you know more about hockey than AV and MG put together, or as I suspect, you are someone who hasn't a clue and probably doesn't watch the games ...........................how silly does that make you look?

I would have more respect for you if you just came out and said "I don't like him he is not my type of hockey player."

[cIutch]

guuy needs to work out alittle , who cares if it takes a bit from his skating , he needs a good mixture of speed and strength

[cIutch]

Positive: He was mentioned on HIMYM

[5minutesinthebox]

Don't you dare call me ignorant! What? You think you are the only person on here who watches every Canucks game? You think you are the only in here who knows anything about ice hockey? You're the only one here who bleeds blue and green?

Let me tell you something bud-I have been a fan of this team since I was 5 years old. I cannot remember the last time that I have missed a game, whether it be in the stadium, on TV, or on the radio. I cried as a kid in '94 because those guys were my sports heroes and all I wanted in the world that day was for TL and the boys to hoist the cup. And now that I am an adult, I work my a$$ off and am able to afford season tickets. I invest a boat load of time, and money in this team. I don't need to be told by some elitist on here that I am A)not a fan, ignorant, and C) pathetic. In my opinion, you can piss off with that attitude.

As far as Raymond ia concerned, I don't care about the score sheet, like you claim. I care about the way he plays on the ice. Ans the way he plays is selfish, soft hockey, with no grit or heart. You can defend him all you want, you will not change my opinion about him. And contrary to your beliefs, I am "fan" enough to be entitled to this opinion.

[Linden Legend]

If you dont want to be called ignorant, then stop being ignorant. I hardly said I was the only one who watched all of the games , nor do I claim to be the greatest Canucks fan alive (unlike you who insisted on giving us a complete history of your fandom when really none of us could care less). You are the one acting like an elitist fan, bud.

You talk about my attitude yet it is you who is spouting of this nonsense about Raymond being 'useless' and having no skills whatsoever. You choose to completely 'ignore' the facts that I laid in front you, that is what makes you 'ignorant'. See what I did there?

You call Raymond selfish when he plays with the likes of Booth and Kesler? The same Kesler who completely disappeared in the playoffs against the Kings? And Raymond has no heart? Are you kidding me? The guy came back from a broken back that he incurred while playing for this team. An injury that very nearly ended his career. No heart?!

And if you think Raymond was the problem with the 2nd line last season, not only are you ignorant, but blind as well.

You keep throwing the words 'grit' around and I am getting so tired of the over use of this word to describe what this team needs. What exactly has the gritty Kassian brought with all his grit? What about the gritty Higgins, Burrows, Lapierre, Hansen, what exactly did all of their grittyness bring in the series against LA.

You can have any opinion you want of Raymond, thats your entitlement. As is mine to disagree with you when your so called 'opinion' is nothing more than biased and premeditated hatred for a player who nearly had his career ended for this team.

You call yourself a fan but all you really care about is the wins and losses. Well let me tell you something 'bud', this team is made up of players, and these players are people who deserve respect.

The Canucks as an organization wisely chose to give Raymond an opportunity to prove himself, as they believe in him. Given what Raymond has had to go through, I will take their opinion over yours.

[Snake Doctor]

Raymond will score 25 goals this year.

[alt kilgore]

Raymond was one of our best forwards not named Sedin against the Kings.

Raymond is:

- the teams best and fastest skating forward.

- he uses that speed to gain the offensive zone and blow up defensive zone coverage, He is one of the few players on the team who does this well

- unlike Booth (who makes nearly 2 million more) he actually plays defence and has shown chemistry with Kesler.

[D-Money]

Raymond will score 25 goals this year.

[5minutesinthebox]

Disagree with all of these opinions.

I think this last contract is Raymonds last shot and he knows it. I hope he steps it up, but I don't have much hope. The reason is that he's not a prima dona, which is great for the dressing room. I have nothing against him personally, he seems like a great character. But to me that implies he already HAS given his all and that means he has nothing left. If he was some prima dona that had held out and sulked on the ice for a better contract and was re-signed, I would have a lot more hope he could now step it up.

For his salary, he is one of the biggest soft spots on the team.

[5minutesinthebox]

First of all, I didn't ignore the list of "attributes" you wrote for Raymond. I read them, and I disagree with most of them. This does not make me ignorant, it makes me opinionated. I am entitled to this opinion, just as much as you are entitled to yours. However, my opinion of his play is neither biased or premeditated. It is based on years of watching him play. I don't make opinions about players before I see them play. Raymond has had more than his fair shot on this team, and quite frankly, it hasn't worked out. Time to move on.

Let me also say that I have never once attacked Raymond as a person. My hatred is based solely in the way he plays hockey. He is a selfish hockey player. Don't throw names like Booth and Kesler out there to prove me wrong. That's like saying "It's ok for Raymond to be selfish because there are other players on this team that are selfish as well". Well guess what? Its not ok for any of them to play selfish hockey, but given the choice, I would take either of Booth or Kesler on my team over Raymond any day.

I have also never praised the grit of Kassian. I haven't seen enough of him to have a decent opinion, therefore I will reserve any judgement until atleast seeing him for a full year. Unlike alot of people on this board, I do not think he is NHL ready, nor do I think he is the second coming of Todd Bertuzzi for us. As far as the other names you mentioned, guys like Higgins, Burrows, Hansen, and Lappierre, play hockey the right way. Those guys never take a shift off. In my opinion, I cant say the same thing about Raymond.

However, your most ridiculous comment may be that I am some sort of phony fan for caring about wins and losses. Let me ask you, what fans don't care about wins and losses? Are you tuning into games to watch these players because they are "real people" and they deserve our respect. I guarantee that you are not. You care just as much about the wins and losses as I do so spare me the sob story about these guys as real people. I don't care what these guys are like off the ice. I care what they do on the ice because on the ice they are canucks and I am a canucks fan. You are the same way so quit acting so high and mighty.

I know my opinions on Raymond are strong, but they are based on facts and years of watching him play. I strongly believe he brings nothing to the table that other players on our roster dont also bring to the table. Would we really miss him if Higgins took his spot in the top six for the full year. I believe the answer is an emphatic NO and for this reason, I view him as useless to our team.

[Monteeun]

You guys are insane. All of ya.