Torres was and is a fu*king beauty.
Haters hate on.
Torres was and is out of control................I never saw him stick up for anyone.............show us the evidence of him being any more than a guy unbalanced.
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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:38 AM
Torres was and is a fu*king beauty.
Haters hate on.
Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:16 AM
Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:53 PM
Yeah, but fighting isn't a postive. It does nothing but give you a five minute penalty. Should we also go out and find someone that takes a lot of 2 minute penalties?
Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:27 PM
What? You do realize in a fight that both guys get 5 minute penalties right, so it's not like your putting your team shorthanded? ..................and even though your last statement makes even less sense, we already have enough guys who take 2 minute penalties. What we need is a couple of guys who protect our skilled players and aren't afraid to try and intimidate and make a statement to the the other team. I'd rather be proactive than reactive.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:37 AM
Guillaume Desbiens seemed unwilling to fight during his first tour of duty with the Canucks. He was much more willing during his call-up last year with the Calgary Flames.
If he's willing and holds his own like his time with the Flames, he will be in the NHL with the Canucks in the upcoming season.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:44 AM
Isn't the roll of an enforcer to react to the actions of the other team?
If the enforcer is being proactive, then he'd be out there starting something, and would there not be the chance that he winds up putting his team down a man because of something like a roughing penalty?
If he's being a deterrent, merely because of his presence on the end of the bench, that's fine, assuming the other side gives a hoot. This being said, if the other team is going to be intimidated merely by this guy potentially being on the ice, then there's a pretty good chance that they aren't that tough of a team in the first place.
How much ice time should these one or two guys get? In your view, are they 4th liners, or do they play top-9 minutes? If they are playing top-6 minutes (to better protect the team's skilled players), what does that do to the team's production? True, what does it do to the team's production to have the Canucks' skilled players shut down by the physical play of the other team? In response I'd say, what good does it do if the Canucks' enforcer takes an instigator penalty to go along with his fighting major? As the Sedins don't normally kill penalties, they're off the ice for two minutes (or less). For the time the enforcer in the box serving the major penalty, who is then looking after the Sedins?
I'm all in favour of more team toughness. however, I do not see the need for a guy who is solely an enforcer. If the Canucks had an enforcer (or two) last season, are you so certain that Sedin wouldn't have gotten a concussion? The cheap-shot he took from Keith was a reaction in the heat of the moment. Even if the Canucks had an enforcer on the ice at that time, there is likely nothing that he could have done to prevent it. Sure, he would then have pounded on Keith after the fact, and we'd all feel tougher because of it, but that wouldn't have made Sedin any less concussed, would it?
Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:57 AM
Edited by MessiNacity10, 26 August 2012 - 01:00 AM.
14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:31 AM
No, the role of the enforcer is not strictly to react to the actions of the other team. His role is to make sure that no liberties are taken, to handle any situations when liberties are taken and to provide a physical element and energy to the team when it's needed. We've
seen how being reactionary only has turned out so far......because usually there's no reaction at all. Sad!
You're right, there is a chance that an enforcer could put the Canucks down a man, but so what? Sometimes you have to send a message that you're not going to be f'd with and if it costs you being shorthanded a couple of times during the season, who in the hell cares? I would take potentially giving up a power play goal in the middle of December to prove that you're not going to be intimidated or pushed around and that you're going to dish it more than you're going to take it. Plus, more often than not, the physical penalties get killed off more than the hooking and holding penalties.
An enforcer isn't just to fight the other teams tough guy. He's also out there to make the other team understand that he'll be going after their best players if his best players are targeted. The Canucks skill players need to know that they can play their own game without having to worry about getting physically manhandled while also knowing that they have somebody who will have their back no matter what. Plus, you don't need him to play with Sedins permanently but can take a shift with them when necessary.
So, you don't think that the possibility of Keith getting his ass kicked wouldn't have made him think twice of cheap shotting Sedin? I happen to think that he'd think twice about getting his faced punched in. Also, there was no response from anyone. That's disgusting. A good enforcer would have made sure that someone on the Hawks would have paid a price. Again, if the Canucks had some protection, maybe somebody goes after Toews or Kane or another star player on the Hawks. An eye for an eye isn't a bad thing. Do you really think that Odjick wouldn't have gone after or gotten somebody back in response to what happened to Sedin?
Finally, this poll is BS anyways. None of the guys listed were goons. This team needs an Odjick, Brashear, Fraser type of player. All guys who were feared pugilists but that could also take a regular shift.
Edited by Bodee, 26 August 2012 - 05:39 AM.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 09:59 AM
No to the pure enforcer (though I liked seeing guys like Rosehill firing punches like a machine, his days in the NHL should be done)
Wouldn't mind Bringing Back Bitz though! Guys like him can really make an impact if utilized correctly, as strong fore checkers with the ability bear down on defenders with speed, laying down big hits, causing turnovers and just providing energy.
With the bulking up of recent championship teams and contenders (Boston, LA both have big, mean guys; Philly's also pretty physical bunch, Sharks also bulked up physically with Burish and Stuart joining that group, and while they may have been discounted Detroit's got Tootoo, Kronwall, Brendan Smith, etc. who can also lay down the body) it's necessary to have the physical broadness in more players to counteract the sheer physical toll taken by the body from so many hits.
More importantly, players should be able to either lay down the hits yourself (with the bigger role players) or factor significantly in other areas (by scoring lots, killing penalties, blocking shots, stopping pucks for goalies... etc.) for these role players to be valuable to their respective teams.
However, fighting alone is not one of the ways for players (goons) to prove their worth, and definitely not in the playoffs. Guys who have tough knuckles but not soft hands or other hockey skills belong at home in the playoffs or at best in the press box, not dressed for important games.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 10:11 AM
Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:05 PM
I agree with all of the above. The sad thing is we never learn our lessons, and EACH YEAR WE SEEM TO THINK IT WILL BE DIFFERENT.
A price has to be paid. Otherwise it is open season. If we want to keep players like the Sedins, we owe it to them to protect them properly. We should have made the Sedins untouchable, years ago.
Similarly with Lu. It is unbelievable the amount of crap we let happen to our star goalie. If some of the molesting that has occurred to Lu had been perpetrated on Thomas, they would have been opening new hospital wards throughout the NHL.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 07:18 PM
We've already got one in Edler. And the Sedins are fully capable of protecting themselves, but if they couldn't they would be respected enough by the rest of the league to not get cheapshot'd or bullied. We definitely have no need for an enforcer. Also I would like to point out that no line should play more than 15-16mins/game so having an enforcer would take away minutes from the fourth line and give more than 15 to the likes of the sedins, burrows, kesler, booth, etc... Is that what we really want, is that fair that certain players should play more a game.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 07:49 PM
Edited by oldnews, 26 August 2012 - 08:04 PM.
Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:57 PM
I don't think the Canucks need an "enforcer", but I would love to see them go out and do what it takes to acquire Chris Neil - I know, Ottawa certainly won't be looking to move him, but if the offer was sweet enough... I'd be willing to offer them a future/s that they couldn't say no to. His 13 goals, 271 hits, "pushback", and 2/1.9 cap hit would fit extremely well in a Canucks jersey.
If Doan were to sign here, and Neil were acquired, the Canucks lineup would command a whole new level of respect. A guy like Sean Thornton would not be running around the way he does with Neil in the lineup - and Neil doesn't just bring toughness - he brings a whole lot of energy, confidence, sheer determination and takes some heat off the blueline while taking a toll on the opposition's blueline - guys like Lapierre, Kassian, etc play bigger as well with a player like him in the lineup. He's number one on my wishlist.