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#61 Losing With Pride

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

if only Nonis shipped out kesler, Edler and Schnedier for Richards we wouldn't have this thread... :bigblush:


Could you imagine how good Tampa would have been after this trade?

Stamkos, Lecavalier, Kesler, St. Louis, Malone, Connoly, Purcell, Shannon, Pyatt

Edler, Hedman, Lee, Brewer, Ohlund, Clark, Bergeron, Commodore

Schneider

Hurray!

#62 Losing With Pride

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:12 AM

Also, add in Richards leaving as a free agent.

Our lineup would be

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Higgins Hodgson Booth
Raymond Malholtra Hansen

Bieksa Hamhuis
Salo Tanev
Ballard Rome
Alberts

Luongo

zero depth.

#63 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:33 PM

Agree 100%. I have always tempered these Norris talks with quiet caution. Facts are some aspects of Edler's game are sorely lacking. Namely his lack of hockey intelligence, poor defensive lapses, and serious lack of foot speed (although he was better this year - he did not get beat clean for speed nearly as much), and sometimes intensity.

Also lol at Bluesman60 for stopping reading when his poor defensive play was compared to Bieksa's. Sorry Bluesman60 but that's dead on. Besides not being good defensively Bieksa is lazy and shies away on the defensive end of game. At least Edler tries, he's just not that aware out there and needs a vetern or calming presence.

I wouldn't panic to trade him or say he is the worst ever but he's a far far far cry from Lidstrom like some people think.
If the only way to get a # 1 dman was to trade him I would do that, or better yet get a #1 dman (Weber) and play them together. If that somehow is deemed impossible I think the only way he succeeds is if we get a stalwart stay at home guy or a smart player with speed to cover him. With the right d partner the sky is the limit for Edler, but until he gets that he will continue to play reckless, unthoughtful, and inconsistent hockey. Sometimes seeing how it should be done by someone else is all a player needs. Honestly, he should be with Hamhuis full time but then ... Bieksa sucks and we're back to square 1.


Agreed man, Edlers only got 1 year left on his contract also and he's going to want a big raise obviously, I just hope he develops like all these CDCers think he will.

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#64 rain

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:55 PM

God you people are so quick to turn on players, it's pathetic.

Is Edler's game perfect? Of course not. But there's still tons of time for him to grow. In case you haven't realized, he's still developing.

I'll say it again, Niklas Lidstrom didn't win his first Norris until he was 31. It takes a long time for defenceman to fully develop.

It's too bad Ohlund had to go, because it seemed to me Edler was develping really well under his wing. If we can get another veteran D-man to help him develop further that would help big time.


Yup. Agreed.

I'll add: Edler's inconsistency speaks to immaturity as a player or need for some one-on-one with sports psychologist to work on his mental preparedness, etc.

#65 Evil Roach

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

Yes, let's trade an All-Star that other teams would drool to have on their team. Im sick of tired of how he only got 49 points.

I don't want to live in this planet anymore...

#66 Alex the Great

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:20 PM

So................just be a cheerleader? Besides, not crapping on every player......just Edler, Bieksa, Raymond & Malhotra. Just the ones that are over-rated and overpaid. (I'll cut Manny some slack because of the injury).

Add :
Ballard (Top 4 D)
Rome (..)
Kassian (Young kid, full of potential)
Luongo (Star goaltender)
Kesler (Top 6 forward)
Pahlsson (Good center)
Booth (Top 6 forward)

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#67 canIcrytoo

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:44 PM

Please do not compare Edler to Weber in any way. That is ridiculous. Edler may become a great defenceman, but he may not. He makes a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't at the NHL level. He has a lot of potential, but so did a lot of Canuck defencemen over the years. He may become a top level d-man, but not likely a Norris candidate.



In no way what so ever? Well they did tie for points this season, thats a pretty good offensive stat to compare while Edler has less ice time, and isnt on the 1st unit for every situation there is like Weber. Actually you're completely right, thats just ridiculous to even think to compare them in any way at all. :frantic:
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#68 Robongo

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:23 PM

You people are as bad if not worse than leaf fans . Edler will be fine , he struggled in the latter half but I think the long off season will benefit him huge. He needs to focus on learning to get shots on net instead of always trying to kill the puck with his stick. Trading edler would be as dumb as trading coho
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#69 Xbox

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:27 PM

Edler's poor play could also fall on the fact that AV changed the pairings for no apparent reason with about a month to go in the regular season. I have no idea why he would split up Hamhuis and Bieksa along with Edler and Salo. He then puts Tanev with Hamhuis, and Edler with Bieksa. That is two of the worst pairings I've ever seen. Why $crew with the chemistry right before the playoffs? Just another bonehead move by AV.


Ignorant post.

AV DOESNT MAKE THE D PAIRINGS

Edited by Henrik Sedin, 16 May 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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#70 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

Ignorant post.

AV DOESNT MAKE THE D PAIRINGS


So he doesn't have a say in anything to do with Defence? Sure, it might have been Rick Bowness who changed it, but AV has to come in and say something... He can't just leave the pairings the same even though Bowness doesn't change it.
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#71 Xbox

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:16 PM

So he doesn't have a say in anything to do with Defence? Sure, it might have been Rick Bowness who changed it, but AV has to come in and say something... He can't just leave the pairings the same even though Bowness doesn't change it.


IIRC Rick Bowness is in charge of the defence pairings.

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#72 Dogbyte

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

So he doesn't have a say in anything to do with Defence? Sure, it might have been Rick Bowness who changed it, but AV has to come in and say something... He can't just leave the pairings the same even though Bowness doesn't change it.

Just like it's a video game or something hey?

Damn the other guy has the controller but that line is dead, we're going get scored on. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh well. :(


The coach definitely has a say in defence, they've got to work together.

Edited by Dogbyte, 16 May 2012 - 06:17 PM.

"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

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#73 L'Orange

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

I quit reading when the Bieksa rhetoric started.


And you had to post that?
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#74 L'Orange

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:30 PM

What a load of crap that is. When he played as poorly as he did, blaming it on who he was or wasn't playing with is plain stupid. If he is truly an elite talent (and that's laughable in itself), he should be able to elevate the play of whoever he is partnered with, not fall apart himself.


Spot on, dorrcoq.
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#75 Ryan Kesler RK17

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

Wasn't there a thread where everybody was saying edler is underpaid?

He's not getting paid $7 mil so why compare him to someone that is?

He was an all-star this year and almost had 50 points.

Everybody was saying how good this guy was all season. He had a few bad games and now all of a sudden he sucks and we should trade him? Unbelievable

But he folds under preasure.
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#76 DooBie604

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

Is there been any Canuck on here that shouldn't be traded except Cory? Apparently being an all-star defenseman all year and then having a bad playoff round means a player is awful. Weber was a plus player only one game against Phoenix...should they trade him as well cause he sucks and cracks under pressure?

Canuck fans just complain complain and complain about every player until they are gone and then they complain complain complain about the new player as soon as they slump and the cycle continues. If Cory stays as a number one goalie here I give it one bad play off series before everyone jumps on his back and says he sucks.

#77 Tearloch7

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

IIRC Rick Bowness is in charge of the defence pairings.


Bowness ireports directly to AV who is the "HEAD" Coach therefore it is AV's ultimate responsibility .. but then AV is not all that good at taking responsibility it appears ..

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#78 Tearloch7

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

Is there been any Canuck on here that shouldn't be traded except Cory? Apparently being an all-star defenseman all year and then having a bad playoff round means a player is awful. Weber was a plus player only one game against Phoenix...should they trade him as well cause he sucks and cracks under pressure?

Canuck fans just complain complain and complain about every player until they are gone and then they complain complain complain about the new player as soon as they slump and the cycle continues. If Cory stays as a number one goalie here I give it one bad play off series before everyone jumps on his back and says he sucks.


Yes .. they should trade Weber to US ..

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#79 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:30 PM

Is there been any Canuck on here that shouldn't be traded except Cory? Apparently being an all-star defenseman all year and then having a bad playoff round means a player is awful. Weber was a plus player only one game against Phoenix...should they trade him as well cause he sucks and cracks under pressure?

Canuck fans just complain complain and complain about every player until they are gone and then they complain complain complain about the new player as soon as they slump and the cycle continues. If Cory stays as a number one goalie here I give it one bad play off series before everyone jumps on his back and says he sucks.



If you actually watched the whole season and watched Edler play, you would see he doesn't think the game at

an elite level and makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes, folds under pressure etc. He scored 50 points a large

part due to playing on the 1st/2nd ranked power play with the Sedin twins, remember Ehrhoff? How many

points does he have without the twins?

Edler is a 30-40 point guy on any other team, he's absolutely terrible at getting his shot through and he has bad aim..

I'd rather have a guy like Bogosian, someone who can play physically every game not 1 out of every 20

games and has as much offensive upside as Edler imo.

Edited by TheGame., 17 May 2012 - 12:31 PM.

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#80 L'Orange

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVe486gUXqw


Respect your Edlers


What team was that against? Oh yeah, the mighty Blue Jackets. Wow. Edler's a god......
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#81 L'Orange

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:13 PM

This whole post along with morons hating on juice and Edler is why people say we have the dumbest fans in hockey! Was he perfect far from it but he's 26 people if you knew anything about hockey you'd know that most defencemen take time to develop. Yah lets get rid of our best defencmen because a few morons think he had a bad year. Its not the media here that has a negative effect on players its you negative, quick to throw players under the bus ignorant uninformed so called "fans" that do.


Where's the minus button? Give this guy a hankie.
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#82 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:50 PM

So................just be a cheerleader? Besides, not crapping on every player......just Edler, Bieksa, Raymond & Malhotra. Just the ones that are over-rated and overpaid. (I'll cut Manny some slack because of the injury).

Want to go through the lineup?

The Sedins have been "crapped on" many times during their careers by Canucks fans.
Burrows, well NOW we really want him..
Raymond...
Kesler has had his share lately
Higgins has been crapped on by some for a "bad playoff", even though he is incredibly hardworking and drove our lineup for most of the season.
Booth has been majorly crapped on even though he has done exactly what he has been brought in here to do and players usually do better in their second year as a canuck.
Hansen has been crapped on by a few for not being a second liner even though that is ridiculous
Malhotra has been crapped on a ton
Pahlsson has been crapped on for a "bad" playoffs
Lapierre was crapped on almost immediately after arriving here and then again a little bit in the playoffs
Kassian has been continuously crapped on

Bieksa has had a ton of crap
Hamhuis... Only player I can think of where people haven't raged against him for an extended period of time..
Edler... See thread
Salo has been sorta crapped on... Underrated because of injuries AND crapped on because he is injury prone
Ballard... Continual crap
Tanev was crapped on a bit in the playoffs
Rome has received crap from anyone without the initials AV
Alberts received more crap then anyone else on the team during his first year here.

Luongo... It's so thick, now it's a brown medal.
Schneider has been crapped on by Luongo fanatics.

So what were you saying?

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#83 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:58 PM

Want to go through the lineup?

The Sedins have been "crapped on" many times during their careers by Canucks fans.
Burrows, well NOW we really want him..
Raymond...
Kesler has had his share lately
Higgins has been crapped on by some for a "bad playoff", even though he is incredibly hardworking and drove our lineup for most of the season.
Booth has been majorly crapped on even though he has done exactly what he has been brought in here to do and players usually do better in their second year as a canuck.
Hansen has been crapped on by a few for not being a second liner even though that is ridiculous
Malhotra has been crapped on a ton
Pahlsson has been crapped on for a "bad" playoffs
Lapierre was crapped on almost immediately after arriving here and then again a little bit in the playoffs
Kassian has been continuously crapped on

Bieksa has had a ton of crap
Hamhuis... Only player I can think of where people haven't raged against him for an extended period of time..
Edler... See thread
Salo has been sorta crapped on... Underrated because of injuries AND crapped on because he is injury prone
Ballard... Continual crap
Tanev was crapped on a bit in the playoffs
Rome has received crap from anyone without the initials AV
Alberts received more crap then anyone else on the team during his first year here.

Luongo... It's so thick, now it's a brown medal.
Schneider has been crapped on by Luongo fanatics.

So what were you saying?


Most of them deserved it this playoffs.

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#84 Edler's Mind Tricks

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

Our whole team?!? If you think that, then firing AV must be the best option...

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#85 L'Orange

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:19 PM

Our whole team?!? If you think that, then firing AV must be the best option...


It is. He has lost the ears and attention of his team. Calling out Kesler to the media was just plain stupid too.

Vigneault has had the same basic strategy, year in year out. It's predictable.

What did Einstein say the definition of insanity was? Doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. That's Vigneault.

Back to topic though. Edler was the most glaringly deficient in the series. He looked confused and fearful. Instead of being a force he was a goat. Bieksa wasn't far behind. Honestly those two gave the puck away far too often and it cost us. The Canucks were truly the only team that could have beaten LA. If they played as a team. They didn't.

Now we look to next season. We need a better defense.
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#86 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:59 PM

It is. He has lost the ears and attention of his team. Calling out Kesler to the media was just plain stupid too.

Vigneault has had the same basic strategy, year in year out. It's predictable.

What did Einstein say the definition of insanity was? Doing the exact same thing and expecting different results. That's Vigneault.

Back to topic though. Edler was the most glaringly deficient in the series. He looked confused and fearful. Instead of being a force he was a goat. Bieksa wasn't far behind. Honestly those two gave the puck away far too often and it cost us. The Canucks were truly the only team that could have beaten LA. If they played as a team. They didn't.

Now we look to next season. We need a better defense.


Yes!

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#87 nd84

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:23 PM

Edler is full of potential. Remember, Lidstrom didn't win his first Norris until he was 31 years old; Edler is only 26. Edler makes some great passes, like a lot of defensemen, but make no mistake, not that many can pass well.

It also bugs me how everyone gets on about Edler's bad defensive mistakes, but never compliment his great defensive plays.
Despite the fact that Edler makes a fair amount of mistakes in his own end, he makes up for it with many great defensive plays that have saved many goals against.

Watch this video for an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw-JoZWVTuw

Whether he'll ever be as good as Shea Weber, it's hard to see yet, but it's hard to deny his crazy high potential. He does play in a similar style to Weber, which is why you see so many comparisons to him. They are both big, have big shots, and have huge hits.

He's got an incredibly powerful shot, that is a rather hidden gem in the league. Some say his shot is inaccurate, and while this may be true, he's got time to work on accuracy. Look at Salo, his shot wasn't at its best until his 30's, and Edler can shoot it even harder than him.

There's a reason Edler was chosen as our best defenseman this year. He will grow. Give him time and he'll become our star defenseman.


THIS!

Guys gotta stop picking out players and pointing out the negatives.

Edler did struggle at times during the season and had terrible playoff, but the team got eliminated not him

This guy still has a lot of potential!
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#88 Rey

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:40 PM

Get a puck moving defense man and let Edler play the way he was suppose to play. There's too much pressure for him to be a puck moving defense man to replace Ehrhoff, and that is why he struggled. Get one offense first guy, and have everyone play defensive first and you will love the Canuck's D again.

Definition of a Puck moving defense man is a defense man, who has the speed to rush up into the offensive zone, make crisp outlet passes to the forwards, have enough offensive skill to play on the first PP unit, without making too much glaring mistakes.

Edler can put up points, but he is not a puck moving defense man. Don't try to make him one. He's doesn't have the smooth elite skating ability of a real puck mover.

Edited by Rey, 22 May 2012 - 11:54 PM.


#89 ajhockey

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:52 PM

Get a puck moving defense man and let Edler play the way he was suppose to play. There's too much pressure for him to be a puck moving defense man to replace Ehrhoff, and that is why he struggled. Get one offense first guy, and have everyone play defensive first and you will love the Canuck's D again.

Definition of a Puck moving defense man is a defense man, who has the speed to rush up into the offensive zone, make crisp outlet passes to the forwards, have enough offensive skill to play on the first PP unit, without making too much glaring mistakes.

Edler can put up points, but he is not a puck moving defense man.


I'd honestly have to agree with this. Although he can skate well sometimes, his best attributes are his vision, passing, and shot, all of which help him put up points.

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#90 Rey

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:00 AM

Perhaps, we could experiment up until the trade deadline. I think a Mark Streit, would be a perfect fit.



Though, Off course there's a few free agents but will be severely overpaid. Wideman, Souray, Corvo. Maybe take a risk at Matt Gilroy. and expect them to be in and out of the doghouse.

BTW - Personally i hate puck moving defense man because they always make mistakes, but I'll be happy knowing Edler is probably backing them up. Add the fact that, the top pair and the second pair will be probably be balanced in terms of ice time. Unless somehow they manage to acquire a super defense man like Alex Pietrangelo. Impossiblez.

Too bad we weren't able to get John Carlson for Hodgson

Anyways, think a guy like this will help bring the Twins back to 100 point players, and Kesler back to a 30-40 goal scorer. The PP instantly becomes better with a puck mover.

Edited by Rey, 23 May 2012 - 12:14 AM.





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