timberz21 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I agree with the OP. Specially if you get them on the PK in the last minute. Worst case scenario they are stuck on the ice for a minute. Otherwise they shoot it down and run to the bench, therefore they are on the ice for 15-20 or 30 second. Also yes maybe the sedins aren't that fast, but they are smart players and makes great pass to break out. They have a good hockey sens. Yes Kesler, Burrows, Bieska, Hansen, Higgins are fast and gritty and will dive in front of pucks, but sometimes also they just swing at the puck without looking and it is easily intercepted by the defensemen. The sedin would actually find the open guy so that he can clear the pucks rather than blindly swinging at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 One of the many stats that MG follows and now AV does is Zone time starts. Can't remember where I read it, but I recall that the Sedins had the highest goals against on the team when they started in there own zone. So it makes sense that they get majority of the neutral and Offensive zone starts. While Malholtra and Lappierre and Lesser extent Kesler gets the Defensive zone starts. Since almost every SH start is in the Defensive zone it makes sense that they would not be killing penalties. MGGM tries to employ every advantage they can to help win games. This info is given to AV and AV has chosen to use it wisely be limiting there Defensive zone starts. Over the next couple years you will see more teams following this stat and using it the same as the Canucks do in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I would like to see the twins get some time on the 2nd pk they were pretty good at it. As one poster said keep them in the game as they kind of go stale when the Canucks get a bunch of penaltys especially if you have a 5 minute major in the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheels22 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sedins are good on defense, just not as good as Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Malhotra, Raymond, Lapierre. They also aren't as fast players, so I wouldn't expect any shorthanded goals coming from them. All those players have at least 1 for us (maybe not Lappy) Our PK players are too good at what they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stix Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 You're looking at this completely the wrong way. As canuckelhead70 already said, we've been amongst the league leaders every year in PK%, why would we would to change that? We have legit penalty killers, who excel at their task. Basically, you want the Sedins to play on the PK for what reason? Because they aren't playing enough and/or aren't putting up enough points...right? You do realize, that ever since AV was here, Sedins have always averaged around 18-19 min/per game. If they started playing PK, AV would still play them 18-19 min/per game, therefore they would be out less in PP and even strength opportunities. The point is that if we really want the Sedins to have more playing time, we have to take less penalties. In the past 5-6 years, we've been top 10 every year in TSH, 'Times Shorthanded'. The OP put together a list of 'stars' who play the PK for one reason or another, the list has a good amount of speedsters, face-off winners, shot blockers, and two-way forwards. Let's look at the company that the Sedins are in: D Sedin - 0:04 H Sedin - 0:05 Selanne - 0:03 Lucic - 0:01 Seguin - 0:01 Iginla - 0:01 Skinner - 0:13 P Kane - 0:04 Duchene - 0:02 Eberle - 0:10 RNH - 0:01 Hemsky - 0:02 Hall - 0:02 Fleischmann - 0:08 Heatley - 0:11 Pacioretty - 0:05 Tavares - 0:05 Moulson - 0:02 Gaborik - 0:05 Richards - 0:10 Briere - 0:03 Hartnell - 0:05 Whitney - 0:01 Crosby - 0:07 Malkin - 0:02 Neal - 0:01 Kessel - 0:05 Lupul - 0:01 Ovechkin - 0:01 Semin - 0:00 (played 1:09 minutes total, not average) E Kane - 0:02 So I don't really see any reason as to why the Sedins are any different from a lot of the other superstars in the league when it comes to PK time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The Sedins are capable of being on the PK, but the fact is Brown has better options. (Once again, an AV hater is slagging the wrong guy) They're not adept at shot-blocking, as evidenced by the scare we had at the 3/4 mark of the season, when we all thought that Hank's streak was going to end after taking one off the ankle. There was even one idiot blaming AV for the injury because Daniel wasn't on the ice, thus leaving Hank "confused" about where he should be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj29 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 i want ryan johnson back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Since marc Crawford's last year here, when he used the Sedins on a secondary PK unit, and they not only excelled but leaguewide were actually the last pair of forwards on regular PK duty to be on for a PP goal against, I've been against AV's refusal to use them on the PK. A season ago in the playoffs against LA when our PK couldn't kill a penalty to save their souls, he finally put them on the PK, and they turned the series around... but after that, once again he removed them from the PK... The argument is he wants them fresh for offense, but seemingly all around the league, star offensive players are thriving while getting PK duties. Why? All we all year long when there are a bunch of penalties is "The Sedins are cold, have barely seen the ice most of this period, because they don't kill penalties"... Here's a sampling of players who are top 6 and expected to be offensive, but who do kill penalties, and their SH minutes per game. Kovalchuk 1:09 Getzlaf 1:02 Eric Staal 1:26 Parise 1:57 Kopitar 2:14 Perry 1:16 Plekanec 3:13 marleua 1:28 Thornton 1:03 Giroux 2:14 Weiss 1:15 Backes 1:47 Zetterberg 1:04 Eriksson 1:46 Hossa 1:47 Elias 1:46 Ladd 1:32 Callahan 1:48 Ribeiro 0:58 Sharp 1:05 Alfredsson 1:17 Fisher 1:15 Datsyuk 1:13 Henrique 1;47 a rookie for cryin out loud... Semin 1:09 the guy constantly called a defensive liability? Mikko Koivu 1:43 Pominville 2:13 What I'm pointing out is that it seems to work just fine for everyone else, the Sedins are not made of glass... They aren't getting tired, when AV said they were, was one of the few times they actually spoke up and contradicted him... And they are actually effective penalty killers. I'm sure a number of coaches use their stars on the PK specifically so they stay in the game. They aren't going to be worn down because they get a minute on the PK each game, but they will stay "in the game". 1 minute of PK a game won't make them too tired to be offensive threats. Plenty of the regular PK "star" players were in The majority of the top 25 scorers all had regular PK duty... I feel the Sedins are entirely capable and would actually benefit from getting 0:45-1:15 of PK per game, keeping our stars in the flow of the game, and it seems like most other coaches would do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 You can add Hodgson to that list now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 No he really cant Hodgson isnt really good at all on Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I think that this could be the next evolution to their game: PK 1: Kesler-Burrows Hamhuis-Bieksa PK 2: Sedin-Sedin Edler-Tanev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-a-Million Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Just how much ice time do you want the Sedins to play? Your suggestion has no merit. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Henrik is Iron Man for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 It looks exceptionally bad when the power play dries up. AV could play the twins on the PK more. And he could play the 3rd/4th line in the offensive zone more. The overall result will be a more rounded team. TOML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 <p> Hate to admit it, but the Sedins just aren't gritty, fast players. The type of people you need on the PK are people who are going to dive and give their all for the puck, and who can forcheck fast as the opposing team tries to enter the zone and setup. The Sedins just aren't those players, as amazingly awesome as they are.Burrows, Hansen, Kesler, Higgins etc. all have those traits to an extent which is why we use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The Sedins aren't slow at all. They just get ground into the ice for the offensive zone cycle. But you put them on the pk and they won't be ground into the ice at all. Because they won't be cycling in the offensive zone. Here's a play that will work on the pk far more often than on the pp: Henrik intercepts a pass from a sluggish 2nd unit power play pointman, puts up a tape-to-tape long bomb to Daniel. Goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice2Mitra Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Don't really think it's due to their ability/inability to be defensively responsible. It's no mystery why Hank's prolonged his ironman streak for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 There are a lot of pros and cons on both sides. The biggest aspect is that we have a lot of great penalty killers. While some teams have trouble finding two good players to put on the PK we have about 8. Kesler Burrows Hansen Raymond Higgins Lapierre Malhotra Pahlsson are all excellent, add the Sedins and that's 10 (out of 12 players) PK'ers. More than enough (Team Canda of PK'ing). As the story goes it is done to rest the Sedin's, however, one thing AV is missing is that the Sedin's are often played out of the game when there are a lot of penalties. He doesn't realize in this situation that he should play them to get his best players playing. In addition, the leaders of any team want to be on the ice during crunch time, PK is one of the most important aspects of the game and I'm sure the Sedins want to contribute there. On the flip side as has been mentioned the Sedins are also slow and let's not make any bones about it they are far more interested in the offensive zone than the defensive zone. Pretty passing doesn't account for much on the PK. One last note is that after killing the PK and you try to gain momentum puttting your first line out as compared to a makeshift line of Higgins [third line center] Kassian is usally advantageous as the other's teams best players are usually on the bench. Edit: Looking at this long list of PK'ers confirms to me my belief that we have concentrated too much on depth on this team and not enough on high end talent. I agree. At least try it during the regular season. Then at least they could be an option to PK if Kesler get hurt, Malhotra struggles or if they're trying to get a prospect integrated into the line-up. Look at the PK units going into the playoffs. Doesn't anyone else find this excessive? Talk about afraid to lose. Malhotra Hansen Kesler Burrows Pahlsson Higgins Lapierre Raymond ^ If the Sedin's could play even the 4th pairing, less than 1:00/game, Canucks wouldn't need to dress as many PKers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester@wraiths.ca Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Just how much ice time do you want the Sedins to play? Your suggestion has no merit. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd84 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I wouldn't mind several shfits on the PK for the Twins However, if they did play there and if any of them become injured from blocking a shot *knock on wood* then the coaching staff with get into sh!t. We have plenty of players who play very well defensively and are reliable in that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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