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Kassian Or Foligno If You Could Do It Over Again?


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#121 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:25 PM

Long Live the instant gratification arm chair quarterback!

Personally, I think Kassian and Gragnani were good returns for Hodgson and Sulzer, but lets allow some passage of time to see how things go.


Grangagme is useless, a horrible excuse for D man - he is 25 and unlikely to improve - he has no idea where to be in his own end, and no idea what to do if he ever gets to the right spot by accident - he reminds me of the illustious Bob Manno, but with much less offensive upside. The jury is out on Kassian, but the early returns are very poor. We traded two guys who can play for two guys that can't. Kind of like trading Grabner and a first rounder for Ballard. If MG re-signs AV, I have no idea how he thinks Kassian will ever become a player - AV won't play him.

#122 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:29 PM

Yeah, and the potential superstar Kassian wasn't even visible on the ice.


And Hodgson's "star potential" was visable in our 40th season when he was on the 4th line for all of his time here too wasn't it?

It's the exact same situation we just had with Coho and I can't wait to read posts next year about how good Kassian is doing and how good he is going to be, just like with Coho when everyone doubted him calling him a bust and I stuck with him just like I will now.

If your complaining now just don't jump on his bandwagon when he's doing great, we don't want you types on this bandwagon.

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#123 Vancanwincup

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:40 PM

Grangagme is useless, a horrible excuse for D man - he is 25 and unlikely to improve - he has no idea where to be in his own end, and no idea what to do if he ever gets to the right spot by accident - he reminds me of the illustious Bob Manno, but with much less offensive upside. The jury is out on Kassian, but the early returns are very poor. We traded two guys who can play for two guys that can't. Kind of like trading Grabner and a first rounder for Ballard. If MG re-signs AV, I have no idea how he thinks Kassian will ever become a player - AV won't play him.


Stop analyzing players you're useless at it.

#124 250Integra

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

And Hodgson's "star potential" was visable in our 40th season when he was on the 4th line for all of his time here too wasn't it?

It's the exact same situation we just had with Coho and I can't wait to read posts next year about how good Kassian is doing and how good he is going to be, just like with Coho when everyone doubted him calling him a bust and I stuck with him just like I will now.

If your complaining now just don't jump on his bandwagon when he's doing great, we don't want you types on this bandwagon.


Don't worry about that.

When Hodgson was on the 4th line in his "first season" (8 games? lol.) he sure looked A LOT better and more visible than Kassian.

Kassian was on the 2nd line for 5-10 games this year, playing alongside Kesler and Booth and what happened? he got stapled to the 4th line because he's clearly not ready for the NHL, and he's not showing any indication of being this "great powerforward".

Did Hodgson get to play on the 2nd line in his first year? Not even a chance, yet he still produced more than Kassian on the 4th line in 8 games than he did in 25+ games.

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#125 Christophe

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:44 PM

I love how everyone is hating on Kass. Just how we were hating on CoHo last year.

Can't wait to see all the Kass jerseys at Rogers Arena in a couple years. Everyone knows he's still a kid....right?

#126 LeanBeef

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:51 PM

Either.
Kassian isnt getting used properly, he is more of a cycle type player that is strong on the puck near the boards and waits for someone to be open, like Ryane Clowe. Clowe wasnt very effective until he was put on the second line, and look at him now.
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#127 Vancanwincup

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:51 PM

Don't worry about that.

When Hodgson was on the 4th line in his "first season" (8 games? lol.) he sure looked A LOT better and more visible than Kassian.

Kassian was on the 2nd line for 5-10 games this year, playing alongside Kesler and Booth and what happened? he got stapled to the 4th line because he's clearly not ready for the NHL, and he's not showing any indication of being this "great powerforward".

Did Hodgson get to play on the 2nd line in his first year? Not even a chance, yet he still produced more than Kassian on the 4th line in 8 games than he did in 25+ games.

The first thing everyone notice about Hodgson the first 8 games was how slow he was. The first thing most people notice about Kassian his first games was how fast he is for a big player and how well he moves on the ice.

#128 thad

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:51 PM

Yeah, and the potential superstar Kassian wasn't even visible on the ice.

He's also 20yrs old

#129 250Integra

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:52 PM

When Kassian is putting up 60 points while being a physical force in the next couple few seasons, you'll understand this trade.

Until then, just sit back and be patient like the rest of us.


What has Kassian shown that indicates he will be putting up 60 points in a season? let alone a "physical force"?

The sad thing is people on here were saying "wow he's exactly the type of player the Canucks need for the playoffs!!" yet he was more useless than Tanner Glass.

It's sad when he's labeled as this "rumbling bull" but can't even seem to dish out a hit; he was labeled as the "Gentle Giant" in Buffalo for a reason.

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#130 Canucks_fo_life

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:54 PM

Once again for the millionth time, Kassian's gonna be a monster!
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#131 250Integra

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

The first thing everyone notice about Hodgson the first 8 games was how slow he was. The first thing most people notice about Kassian his first games was how fast he is for a big player and how well he moves on the ice.


:picard:

Because big and fast = auto success in the league right? Pyatt and Bernier might have to disagree with you.

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#132 DeNiro

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:04 PM

:picard:

Because big and fast = auto success in the league right? Pyatt and Bernier might have to disagree with you.


Except Pyatt and Bernier are slow and out of shape...

Not to mention they're soft as pillows.

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#133 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:06 PM

Don't worry about that.

When Hodgson was on the 4th line in his "first season" (8 games? lol.) he sure looked A LOT better and more visible than Kassian.

Kassian was on the 2nd line for 5-10 games this year, playing alongside Kesler and Booth and what happened? he got stapled to the 4th line because he's clearly not ready for the NHL, and he's not showing any indication of being this "great powerforward".

Did Hodgson get to play on the 2nd line in his first year? Not even a chance, yet he still produced more than Kassian on the 4th line in 8 games than he did in 25+ games.


Where the H*ll did you get this stat, he was on there for 1 game and a half at best and he scored a goal in that time.

Hodgson did nothing and barley played, he had like 15 games during the season and barley played in the playoffs, he had 3 points throughout all the games he played in the season and playoffs.

But like I said he did not play on the 2nd for 5-10 games, not with AV.

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#134 Honky Cat

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:09 PM

Don't worry about that.

When Hodgson was on the 4th line in his "first season" (8 games? lol.) he sure looked A LOT better and more visible than Kassian.

Kassian was on the 2nd line for 5-10 games this year, playing alongside Kesler and Booth and what happened? he got stapled to the 4th line because he's clearly not ready for the NHL, and he's not showing any indication of being this "great powerforward".

Did Hodgson get to play on the 2nd line in his first year? Not even a chance, yet he still produced more than Kassian on the 4th line in 8 games than he did in 25+ games.


It's no secret that it's going take Kassian somtime to adapt to the NHL,but to say that Hodgson looked way better in his 'first'year than Kassian,is completely false.Hodgson looked like a peewee our there in his first year(in fact,there was considerable doubt he could play in the NHL..period)..I think there's a lot more potential upside in Kassians game.

#135 DeNiro

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

What has Kassian shown that indicates he will be putting up 60 points in a season? let alone a "physical force"?

The sad thing is people on here were saying "wow he's exactly the type of player the Canucks need for the playoffs!!" yet he was more useless than Tanner Glass.

It's sad when he's labeled as this "rumbling bull" but can't even seem to dish out a hit; he was labeled as the "Gentle Giant" in Buffalo for a reason.


I'll just tell you like I told everyone who was doubting Hodgson. It takes TIME to develop young players.

Scouts and analysts are ALOT smarter than you, and they actually get paid to give their opinions. They've compared him to the likes of Neely and Lucic.

So before you start making knee jerk criticisms of how he plays, you've gotta realize that this kid is 21 years old. He wasn't gonna storm into the league and start hitting and fighting everyone. He's still probably in awe that he's even playing in the NHL, so it will take him time to adjust, just like it took time for Hodgson to adjust, and just like it took time for Grabner to adjust.

Edited by DeNiro, 21 May 2012 - 10:11 PM.

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#136 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:12 PM

What has Kassian shown that indicates he will be putting up 60 points in a season? let alone a "physical force"?

The sad thing is people on here were saying "wow he's exactly the type of player the Canucks need for the playoffs!!" yet he was more useless than Tanner Glass.

It's sad when he's labeled as this "rumbling bull" but can't even seem to dish out a hit; he was labeled as the "Gentle Giant" in Buffalo for a reason.


Actually it was those dumb media people saying that..

You are making these bust asumptions way to quickly, he's capable of being a premier powerforward in this league and who else has a prospect similar to him, who is has that much up side, you could make a case for Foligno but Kassian is mean, and brings more of a toughness element, Foligno has similar size and skillset but he's more of a powerforward like Booth, who isn't really mean, but puts up points, where as Kassian is mean.

With that being said who else has a prospect/young player who is at or below his stage of development that has that skillset + the size + the upside + the meanness, your gunna have a tough time looking for one, like Gillis said this is a player you cannot get unless you develop it yourself.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 21 May 2012 - 10:14 PM.

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#137 oldnews

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:16 PM

:picard:

Because big and fast = auto success in the league right? Pyatt and Bernier might have to disagree with you.


I find it humorous that people like to use Taylor Pyatt as an example of a guy who is a failure as a power forward. He scored 49 goals in his three years in Vancouver (the third year he lost his fiancee to a tragic accident). He was an excellent defensive forward who backchecked hard every single shift - and has averaged about 15 goals a year over his career. Not every guy is going to turn out to be a perenial 30 goal scorer, but being a career 3rd liner who averages 30 points is not something to mock. And just by comparison - 49 goals is the same number that the 5.8 million dollar Ryan Getzlaf has scored his last three years - I read posts on here all the time suggesting that Getzlaf would look good in a Canucks uniform. Duh...
Pyatt is a one million cap hit. I'd rather have Pyatt as a depth player making a million than Getzlaf eating up big minutes, top unit power play time and a huge chunk of the salary cap, and producing not a hell of a lot, not really hitting anyone, and being a defensive vacancy.

#138 Vancanwincup

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:16 PM

:picard:

Because big and fast = auto success in the league right? Pyatt and Bernier might have to disagree with you.


That statement tells me all I need to know about your hockey IQ.

#139 oldnews

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

Kassian actually played very well in his short time here this season. He made very good decisions with the puck, he played hard in his own end and was responsible defensively, he chose his spots to be physical but did not run around getting out of position trying to hit people or impress simple fans, he took his cue from his veteran leaders, and he managed to fit into the various roles he was given in a short time as a very young player in a new city and system. People who are complaining that he wasn't visible enough lack vision, plain and simple, and weren't really paying attention - they were too busy wishing for failure so they could cry foul over the intelligent decision to clear out all the growing Hodgson baggage. Kassian was actually quite impressive - anyone would be hard pressed to identify a single mistake the young guy made. On the other hand, if you were watching any of Buffalo's late season games....

#140 Tangerines

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

I love how everyone is hating on Kass. Just how we were hating on CoHo last year.

Can't wait to see all the Kass jerseys at Rogers Arena in a couple years. Everyone knows he's still a kid....right?


I already bought his jersey :lol: . Hoping he's going to be a stud for our team. I have alot of faith in this kid as I do in all of the young players on our team, and in our system. Lets have faith in the team and hope for the best! Cody's a good player but he's gone. He's not our problem anymore so lets welcome the new guys with some possitivity b/c they need our support, cheers...

Edited by JohnLennon, 21 May 2012 - 10:46 PM.


#141 Tangerines

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:45 PM

I already bought his jersey :lol: . Hoping he's going to be a stud for our team. I have alot of faith in the kid as I do in all the young players on our team, and in our system. Lets have faith in the team and hope for the best! Cody's a good player but he's gone. He's not our problem anymore so lets welcome the new guys with some possitivity b/c they need our support, cheers...


DP sorry.

Edited by JohnLennon, 21 May 2012 - 10:47 PM.


#142 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:49 PM

So just settle for Kassian? Hodgson is going to be a star in the league and so will Foligno. It blows my mind how we just gave away Hodgson and didn't get the max value for him. Gillis won the fight but lost the war with Hodgson.

Yeah maybe, but he has to learn to skate first!!

#143 oldnews

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:15 PM

Hodgson and Foligno are going to be stars, boohoo, and all our prospects are going to turn out to be busts, boohoo, and the only one we ever had, boohoo, we had to go and trade him, boohoo, because our mean coach wouldn't let the rookie make the coaching decisions, boohooo, and we lost to LA because of that, boohoo, and now we have no chance to win the Cup, boohoo, and no one understands, (except all the other whiners) boohoo, and our dumb owners extended our dumb GMs contract, boohoo, and now our dumb GM is going to extend our dumb coaches contract, boohoo, and all we have to look forward to are 40 more years of boohooing.

(or more seasons with as good a chance as anyone else of winning a Cup)

#144 Tangerines

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:20 PM

Hodgson and Foligno are going to be stars, boohoo, and all our prospects are going to turn out to be busts, boohoo, and the only one we ever had, boohoo, we had to go and trade him, boohoo, because our mean coach wouldn't let the rookie make the coaching decisions, boohooo, and we lost to LA because of that, boohoo, and now we have no chance to win the Cup, boohoo, and no one understands, (except all the other whiners) boohoo, and our dumb owners extended our dumb GMs contract, boohoo, and now our dumb GM is going to extend our dumb coaches contract, boohoo, and all we have to look forward to are 40 more years of boohooing.

(or more seasons with as good a chance as anyone else of winning a Cup)


Lol.. I needed a good chuckle before I finally hit the hay.. :lol:

#145 250Integra

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:19 AM

Kassian actually played very well in his short time here this season. He made very good decisions with the puck, he played hard in his own end and was responsible defensively, he chose his spots to be physical but did not run around getting out of position trying to hit people or impress simple fans, he took his cue from his veteran leaders, and he managed to fit into the various roles he was given in a short time as a very young player in a new city and system. People who are complaining that he wasn't visible enough lack vision, plain and simple, and weren't really paying attention - they were too busy wishing for failure so they could cry foul over the intelligent decision to clear out all the growing Hodgson baggage. Kassian was actually quite impressive - anyone would be hard pressed to identify a single mistake the young guy made. On the other hand, if you were watching any of Buffalo's late season games....


Responsible defensively?

A person who's watched the game for a long time would know he was a liability out there defensively, which was maybe why he was stapled on to the bench. If you analyzed his game properly, you would've seen that he's way too aggressive in his own zone when he's trying to cover the point-men, hence leaving them wide open for easy shots. Not only that, he was chasing the puck like crazy as well.

I want Kassian to succeed, and I was stoked after his first 2 games. Then what happened? how come all of a sudden he stopped hitting, stopped being "mean", stopped driving the net, and resorted to bone-head plays which involved making ill-advised passes. Why was he COMPLETELY invisible in the playoffs when he supposedly is this great power-forward in the making?

I look at the rookies of the Flyers and they were not brought in for toughness, yet they had more of a mean-streak and offensive touch than this so called "mean-machine Kassian". I saw Schenn, Coutourier, and Read getting into the faces of Malkin, Crosby, and Neal, yet I look at Kassian and he was no where to be found. If that's not enough, look at Dwight King from LA.

If you're a mean player, its not going to change whether you're in the AHL, NHL, or w/e league in the world. Simply put, that facet of his game is overrated and he's, not that type of player. Like I said before, he was labeled by Buffalo fans as a "Gentle-Giant". He's being compared to the likes of Lucic, but if you think about it, did Lucic change his game when he was a rookie? He hit at every chance he got, and hit hard. I look at Kassian for the 30 somewhat games he played and he maybe threw a few hits in 2 of those games he played?

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#146 RBCanucks

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:22 AM

Marcus Foligno. Hands down.

#147 RBCanucks

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:32 AM

Responsible defensively?

A person who's watched the game for a long time would know he was a liability out there defensively, which was maybe why he was stapled on to the bench. If you analyzed his game properly, you would've seen that he's way too aggressive in his own zone when he's trying to cover the point-men, hence leaving them wide open for easy shots. Not only that, he was chasing the puck like crazy as well.

I want Kassian to succeed, and I was stoked after his first 2 games. Then what happened? how come all of a sudden he stopped hitting, stopped being "mean", stopped driving the net, and resorted to bone-head plays which involved making ill-advised passes. Why was he COMPLETELY invisible in the playoffs when he supposedly is this great power-forward in the making?

I look at the rookies of the Flyers and they were not brought in for toughness, yet they had more of a mean-streak and offensive touch than this so called "mean-machine Kassian". I saw Schenn, Coutourier, and Read getting into the faces of Malkin, Crosby, and Neal, yet I look at Kassian and he was no where to be found. If that's not enough, look at Dwight King from LA.

If you're a mean player, its not going to change whether you're in the AHL, NHL, or w/e league in the world. Simply put, that facet of his game is overrated and he's, not that type of player. Like I said before, he was labeled by Buffalo fans as a "Gentle-Giant". He's being compared to the likes of Lucic, but if you think about it, did Lucic change his game when he was a rookie? He hit at every chance he got, and hit hard. I look at Kassian for the 30 somewhat games he played and he maybe threw a few hits in 2 of those games he played?


I agree whole-heartedly. I watch a lot of Sabres games and Kassian was never worth his roster spot. Anyone who says Kassian has played well clearly has no idea what "playing well" means. I'm not saying he's incapable or that he won't prove the nay sayers wrong in future seasons, but last year he was absolutely horrible.

#148 Burnsey

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:47 AM

So just settle for Kassian? Hodgson is going to be a star in the league and so will Foligno. It blows my mind how we just gave away Hodgson and didn't get the max value for him. Gillis won the fight but lost the war with Hodgson.


In short term we lose, that is obvious. In the long term we could win the trade as Kassian has potential to be a real effective power forward. He could be that physicall, gritty player with good offensive skill that is need on our top 6 and who knows in a few years could be a big help in the playoffs.We won't know how this trade fully works out for at least 2-5 years. Be patient.

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#149 hockeywoot

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:12 AM

ATM. Foligno. But making these comparisons is kinda pointless.
Revisit this question in 4 years time to have a better idea.

Different ages. Compare Kassian to Hodgson (2010-2011 edition....where he was struggling, playing 4C)
I didn't like the deal. (Kassian for Hodgson as main pieces is fine, I just felt Buffalo should have added more to get the right value)
I though the timing was odd.

Its clear it wasn't going to workout with our future saviour. So MG got rid of him.
I think Kassian's development is less certain than Hodgson's. But if he does reach his potential,
than he is MORE valuable to us. Top-6, PWF with size? These players are next to impossible to acquire.

MG has wanted this kind of player for a while (Backes offersheet, Steve Bernier experiment)

A potential future line of:

Jensen Schroeder Kassian > Jensen Hodgson Schroeder (for our team's needs)

#150 Italia2006

Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:23 AM

The whole reason we got Kassian is becasue Sabers thinks Foligno is a better player than Kassian. There is noway Sabers is trading Foligno. Therefore we got Kassian instead. Therefore this post is total wrong and useless.


Isn't that ridiculous? We gave up our best prospect for there 2nd best prospect? It's crazy.




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