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Kassian Or Foligno If You Could Do It Over Again?


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#151 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:31 AM

[quote name='250Integra' timestamp='1337662377' post='10661336']
What has Kassian shown that indicates he will be putting up 60 points in a season? let alone a "physical force"?

The sad thing is people on here were saying "wow he's exactly the type of player the Canucks need for the playoffs!!" yet he was more useless than Tanner Glass.

It's sad when he's labeled as this "rumbling bull" but can't even seem to dish out a hit; he was labeled as the "Gentle Giant" in Buffalo for a reason.
[/quote]

I couldn't of said it any better myself.People here keep trying to say he's only 20 years old and still young. That's great but that's not what the Canucks where looking for. We wanted young and able to be effective now and that's not what happened.

#152 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:33 AM

I'll just tell you like I told everyone who was doubting Hodgson. It takes TIME to develop young players.

Scouts and analysts are ALOT smarter than you, and they actually get paid to give their opinions. They've compared him to the likes of Neely and Lucic.

So before you start making knee jerk criticisms of how he plays, you've gotta realize that this kid is 21 years old. He wasn't gonna storm into the league and start hitting and fighting everyone. He's still probably in awe that he's even playing in the NHL, so it will take him time to adjust, just like it took time for Hodgson to adjust, and just like it took time for Grabner to adjust.


So if he's not going to come in and start hitting and fighting everyone, why the hell pick him up at the trade deadline to help us win a cup? The trade deadline is to help you make a run to win the cup isn't it?

#153 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

In short term we lose, that is obvious. In the long term we could win the trade as Kassian has potential to be a real effective power forward. He could be that physicall, gritty player with good offensive skill that is need on our top 6 and who knows in a few years could be a big help in the playoffs.We won't know how this trade fully works out for at least 2-5 years. Be patient.


Again though like i say, to make a deal at the trade deadline to help the team make a run and get a guy who could be good 2-5 years from now made no sense. Do it in the offseason and I bet you if it was done in the offseason and we picked up Kassian and didn't ask for Foligno, the fans would of lost it.

#154 Dogbyte

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:24 AM

You don't know Jack about hockey obviously. Kassian is by far the better potential player. Just because a guy who is better suited to be a bottom 6 player is maturing a little faster is no reason to jump on the bandwagon. You'd look like a moron in 5 years if you traded Kassian for Foligno.

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#155 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:43 AM

You don't know Jack about hockey obviously. Kassian is by far the better potential player. Just because a guy who is better suited to be a bottom 6 player is maturing a little faster is no reason to jump on the bandwagon. You'd look like a moron in 5 years if you traded Kassian for Foligno.


And you're Einstein. You do realise Foligno's Dad and brother are pretty darn good players. So obviously he has the right jeans. Also Buffalo didn't want to trade Foligno to us and thought Kassian was expendable because of how good Foligno was.

#156 MJDDawg

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:58 AM

The Foligno's have Buffalo jeans? (o_O)

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#157 canacks1970

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:01 AM

To me it's a no brainer and I can't believe we didn't get Foligno for Hodgson.
That deal would of made more sense for the Canucks and probably would of helped out in the short term and long term.


Another what if!!!! This isn't NHL 2012. And you know for sure that Ottawa was going to give up Foligno? What if Kassian turns out the player that Gillis and the organization had hope for? What if he ends up with more points then Hodgson?
Give this kid a break!Let him get used to the City, his team, And give him time to developed!

#158 canacks1970

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

And you're Einstein. You do realise Foligno's Dad and brother are pretty darn good players. So obviously he has the right jeans. Also Buffalo didn't want to trade Foligno to us and thought Kassian was expendable because of how good Foligno was.


So what does that mean? Foligno could be a consistent 40 point player for the rest of Career. So what happen to Gretzky's little brothers Brent and Keith? Or Paul Kayria little brother Steve? Or Linden's little brother Jamie?Just because their sibling or father had a pretty good Career doesn't mean the other one is going to be just as good because of his last name.

#159 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:35 AM

So what does that mean? Foligno could be a consistent 40 point player for the rest of Career. So what happen to Gretzky's little brothers Brent and Keith? Or Paul Kayria little brother Steve? Or Linden's little brother Jamie?Just because their sibling or father had a pretty good Career doesn't mean the other one is going to be just as good because of his last name.


What happened to all the sutters, Stalls, Schenns, Koivu. We could both go on and on. The fact is both Foligno brothers are playing in the nhl and there is a reason why we got Kassian and not Foligno. Buffalo saw more value in Foligno.

#160 Dogbyte

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:55 AM

And you're Einstein. You do realise Foligno's Dad and brother are pretty darn good players. So obviously he has the right jeans. Also Buffalo didn't want to trade Foligno to us and thought Kassian was expendable because of how good Foligno was.

Well, I've watched hockey before and having hockey genes doesn't guarantee you will be better than a player whose dad didn't play in the NHL. Just because a rookie 4th rounder comes up and plays well at the end of the season with no pressure becasue his main competition has been moved out is not a reason to use that as a predictor for the future careers. Think of all the rookies that get hyped. You can't just take the best rookies of this year, multiply their stats by 10 and say that's the amount of points you get in a career.

PLAYERS DEVELOP, HE IS 20 YEARS OLD.

You guys gotta try to understand. There are numerous players every year that get drafted, some play really well as expected, some don't, and some come out of nowhere. Now these young players eventually will become the basis of the players in the NHL and not every player was totally predictable as to how he'd turn out. More times than not the prediction is off the mark and more times than not a player's first years are not a prediction of what type of player they will become.

Pieterangelo is a guy that came in a couple years before Kassian with an even higher potential. After struggling a bit in his junior year at the world jr's he was phenomenal in his senior year. His first couple years in the NHL were very mediocre, now he looks like the stud I knew he'd be. Young players take time to start showing their promise. Over a 15 year career, getting used to NHL hockey in your 2nd year as compared to the first year is not really a big deal. It happens all the time. Just think, there are many many young players in the NHL right now and all are playing at different levels. Barely any of those levels will be similar in 5 years.

What happened to all the sutters, Stalls, Schenns, Koivu. We could both go on and on. The fact is both Foligno brothers are playing in the nhl and there is a reason why we got Kassian and not Foligno. Buffalo saw more value in Foligno.

Or as anyone with a brain would note MG would have never considered him in a trade for Hodgson. Foligno is far different from the type player Kassian and Hodgson are and you'd have to be borderline brain dead to make this trade ... even today.

If you want to trade for Foligno start with Hansen and look to sweeten the deal if you want as these are both similar players. Remember Rome was also on pace to score over 100 goals last year at one point ... duh!

Edited by Dogbyte, 22 May 2012 - 10:59 AM.

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#161 TotesMagotes

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:04 AM

So just settle for Kassian? Hodgson is going to be a star in the league and so will Foligno. It blows my mind how we just gave away Hodgson and didn't get the max value for him. Gillis won the fight but lost the war with Hodgson.


Clearly you haven't done your homework on Kassians potential.
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#162 TotesMagotes

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:16 AM

If we couldn't get a good deal I wouldn't have done it.

If he was causing problems I'd send him down to the Wolves for the remainder of the season and then shop him in the summer to get the best deal.


You seriously believe playing him on the wolves would increase his trade value and get us ''the best deal''? :picard:

That's the problem. Why did we have to rush the deal?It's not like trading Hodgson helped the Canucks this year. We should of waited until we got the best bang for the buck. I never heard Hodgson say trade me. You could of told Kesler we're going to put you on the 3rd line for now and trade Hodgson in the offseason. Don't take it personaly kesler.


The writing was on the wall, MG made it clear that Hodgsons agent was making the whole situation very difficult, MG saw a very good prospect that was even younger than Hodgson that could greatly help the future of this club available for trade and he pulled the trigger. Kassian could have been traded to another team if we had waited. There's no guarantee we could have gotten a better return in the off season. MG wanted a very good young player in return and he got it.

People need to realize MG isn't building this team for short term success, he wants this team to succeed for years n years to come. Most people who understand this are 100% on board with him.

Canucks fans really never learn do they?

Does anyone else find it ironic that only a season ago fans were writing off Hodgson and saying we should trade him? Now everyone's already writing off Kassian as a 21 year old.

Stop being so damn impatient with our prospects.


No, they never learn. It's getting quite embarrassing with the lack of common sense on this board, and people in this city in general. They're treating Kassian as if he's a 30 year old career AHL'er. People were ready to trade Hodgson for a bag of pucks last year and now all the sudden we traded a superstar for 'a bum'?

It's almost too stupid to even reply to. Don't know why i bother. Maybe someone will be enlightened.
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#163 Dogbyte

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

You seriously believe playing him on the wolves would increase his trade value and get us ''the best deal''? :picard:



The writing was on the wall, MG made it clear that Hodgsons agent was making the whole situation very difficult, MG saw a very good prospect that was even younger than Hodgson that could greatly help the future of this club available for trade and he pulled the trigger. Kassian could have been traded to another team if we had waited. There's no guarantee we could have gotten a better return in the off season. MG wanted a very good young player in return and he got it.

People need to realize MG isn't building this team for short term success, he wants this team to succeed for years n years to come. Most people who understand this are 100% on board with him.



No, they never learn. It's getting quite embarrassing with the lack of common sense on this board, and people in this city in general. They're treating Kassian as if he's a 30 year old career AHL'er. People were ready to trade Hodgson for a bag of pucks last year and now all the sudden we traded a superstar for 'a bum'?

It's almost too stupid to even reply to. Don't know why i bother. Maybe someone will be enlightened.

One other thing these kids don't get is that MG took a calculated gamble, for the short and long term, the immediate short term didn't work exactly as hoped. Ideally, he would have helped us this year, however there was no guarantee on that and it was an outcome that MG was ready to live with, and still is.

The short term help didn't pan out, now grow up and deal with it. That was a very small part of the deal.

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#164 TotesMagotes

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

One other thing these kids don't get is that MG took a calculated gamble, for the short and long term, the immediate short term didn't work exactly as hoped. Ideally, he would have helped us this year, however there was no guarantee on that and it was an outcome that MG was ready to live with, and still is.

The short term help didn't pan out, now grow up and deal with it. That was a very small part of the deal.


Totally agree. But Kassian turning this team around by himself at the trade deadline would have been on par with winning the lottery. This team had issues since January, and it wasn't Kassian who was brought here to save the team, he was brought here to add toughness and size. They were only going to go as far as the team which was so good in the first half brought them.

Honestly, the bigger risk would have been waiting to trade Hodgson. More information could have been leaked about Hodgson and his agent etc, that he wasn't fitting in or that MG was trying to trade him. This would make it look as if MG was desperate which would automatically give other teams the upper hand in a trade situation. Also how would other teams knowing his agent was a pain in the a$$ affect his value? These are all things to think about when making a trade. Trading Cody asap without the media or other teams knowing too much was the best outcome, and the lower risk in my opinion.

Edited by DirtyHarry, 22 May 2012 - 12:04 PM.

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#165 Tm085

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:05 PM

What has Kassian shown that indicates he will be putting up 60 points in a season? let alone a "physical force"?

The sad thing is people on here were saying "wow he's exactly the type of player the Canucks need for the playoffs!!" yet he was more useless than Tanner Glass.



Because AV was playing him 3 to 4 minutes a night, what the hell is he supposed to do?

#166 DeNiro

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:19 PM

So if he's not going to come in and start hitting and fighting everyone, why the hell pick him up at the trade deadline to help us win a cup? The trade deadline is to help you make a run to win the cup isn't it?


Because Gillis believed that we already had a strong enough team because it was basically the same team that went to the finals the previous year.

Kassian was never expected to be a impact player, he was only expected to be a role player.

None of that mattered though since our core players didn't show up.

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#167 TotesMagotes

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

I couldn't of said it any better myself.People here keep trying to say he's only 20 years old and still young. That's great but that's not what the Canucks where looking for. We wanted young and able to be effective now and that's not what happened.


Did Mike Gillis tell you exactly what the team ''where'' looking for? ''We wanted young and able to be effective now'' -- Are you all of the sudden part of the Canucks front office? With the writing abilityof a 9 year old i highly doubt it.

The Canucks made a deal which will help this team continue to be successful and not just be a team that will be good for 2 or 3 years and then drop down to the bottom of the league like so many other teams.

Would you rather the Canucks be consistently good for decades and have a chance to win the cup every year by making the playoffs?

Or would you rather they trade for older players to be good for a few years with no guarantee of winning the cup? Then watch the team plummet to the bottom of the standings because they traded all our young players for older veterans that will retire in a couple years. Then we can watch our team fail like the Leafs, Flames and Canadiens of the league.

How fun? Then maybe we can sit through a long grueling rebuild which again, has no guarantee of success. See the Oilers.

What Mike Gillis is doing gives us the best chance to win the cup by being competitive in the playoffs year after year after year. Get that through your head and stop pretending like you know exactly what the Canucks need and what they're thinking.
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#168 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:32 PM

Because AV was playing him 3 to 4 minutes a night, what the hell is he supposed to do?


He was given an opportunity to play more minutes but did nothing and we couldn't afford to have him play more than that. When he played he didn't deserve to play more minutes. He barely deserved to be on the 4th line.

#169 needtogetswole

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:36 PM

italia2006... go to your room.. get a towel and some lotion.. and hodgsons picture.. and enjoy..

HES GONE.

rather have kassian here;

and for all the people that claim hodgson is "CLUTCH" anybody can be a regular season goal scorer
please tell me what he did in the playoffs... yes the whole team shat the bed lsat year but what did this
clutch player do?

cody went to buffalo with top 6 minutes playing with better guys than he did here.. and produced jack..
he just looks good cause he played with the canucks... just like everybody did lsat year

#170 Italia2006

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:38 PM

Did Mike Gillis tell you exactly what the team ''where'' looking for? ''We wanted young and able to be effective now'' -- Are you all of the sudden part of the Canucks front office? With the writing abilityof a 9 year old i highly doubt it.

The Canucks made a deal which will help this team continue to be successful and not just be a team that will be good for 2 or 3 years and then drop down to the bottom of the league like so many other teams.

Would you rather the Canucks be consistently good for decades and have a chance to win the cup every year by making the playoffs?

Or would you rather they trade for older players to be good for a few years with no guarantee of winning the cup? Then watch the team plummet to the bottom of the standings because they traded all our young players for older veterans that will retire in a couple years. Then we can watch our team fail like the Leafs, Flames and Canadiens of the league.

How fun? Then maybe we can sit through a long grueling rebuild which again, has no guarantee of success. See the Oilers.

What Mike Gillis is doing gives us the best chance to win the cup by being competitive in the playoffs year after year after year. Get that through your head and stop pretending like you know exactly what the Canucks need and what they're thinking.


Don't insult my writting. Just because you don't agree with what I wrote.The Canucks are not in rebuilding mode smart ass. They're trying to win now and add some young guys than can help now.I don't see any of thos attributes in Kassian. We could of packaged Hodgson and Luongo or Schnieder and had a higher return such as a young star not a young project like Kassian.

#171 Langdon Algur

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:41 PM

I prefer Kassian over Foligno because of the potential Kassian has to develop into a key power forward for the Canucks. I am still trying to understand the reasoning behind this claim that Hodgons is going to be a 'star' in the NHL. Says who? He had one good season with one of the best teams in the NHL. How did he do in Buffalo? Three goals and a couple assists? That's on the second line with plenty of ice time. Clearly this is not evidence that Hodgson is going to be a 'star.'


CHL player of the year in Jr.23 game pt streak in Jr.Leading scorer in the World Jrs. on a team that included Tavares and Eberlenamed to NHL all-star game as a rookie19 goals in his first NHL season, playing mostly on the 3rd lineI think there is some evidence that he could very well be a star.

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#172 needtogetswole

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

CHL player of the year in Jr.23 game pt streak in Jr.Leading scorer in the World Jrs. on a team that included Tavares and Eberlenamed to NHL all-star game as a rookie19 goals in his first NHL season, playing mostly on the 3rd lineI think there is some evidence that he could very well be a star.


I dont understand why stats from another league matter? what has he done in the NHL?
Yes, he'll be a good player but a star - I don't think so.

We'll see what happens in Buffalo next year, I suppose.

#173 needtogetswole

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:47 PM

Don't insult my writting. Just because you don't agree with what I wrote.The Canucks are not in rebuilding mode smart ass. They're trying to win now and add some young guys than can help now.I don't see any of thos attributes in Kassian. We could of packaged Hodgson and Luongo or Schnieder and had a higher return such as a young star not a young project like Kassian.


their trying to win every year... - competitive or rebuilding every team trys to win- every year.

and not once did that guy's post say we "rebuilding", smart ass.

#174 Tm085

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

He was given an opportunity to play more minutes but did nothing and we couldn't afford to have him play more than that. When he played he didn't deserve to play more minutes. He barely deserved to be on the 4th line.


So why does Hodgson deserve to be a 1st liner with his half a point a game average then?

#175 needtogetswole

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

So if he's not going to come in and start hitting and fighting everyone, why the hell pick him up at the trade deadline to help us win a cup? The trade deadline is to help you make a run to win the cup isn't it?


5 Games was not enough time to JUDGE kassian in the playoff's anyways.. we lost in the first round...
no one showed up... including kassian..

#176 TotesMagotes

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:52 PM

Don't insult my writting. Just because you don't agree with what I wrote.The Canucks are not in rebuilding mode smart ass. They're trying to win now and add some young guys than can help now.I don't see any of thos attributes in Kassian. We could of packaged Hodgson and Luongo or Schnieder and had a higher return such as a young star not a young project like Kassian.


Please give me the source where the Canucks GM has publicly said that he will trade to win now instead of trading to help the team be consistently successful for years to come. Give me a freakin break. Every team would like to ''win now'' but that's not a guarantee in any way shape or form.

How do you know know that a young star was available? How do you know MG didn't try that? Which ''young star player'' that can help now that you have in your little imagination that could have been traded for? This isn't a video game, the Canucks can't just make a trade and expect it to happen because you packaged a bunch of players together.

Edited by DirtyHarry, 22 May 2012 - 02:11 PM.

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#177 Phil_314

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:12 PM

Inevitably, "Kassian or Foligno" became "Hodgson or Kassian" again... :picard:

It's not like Zack won't make it for sure, nor is Cody = Trevor Linden 2.0 for sure. Foligno emerged this season, but Kass was the #1 prospect before coming and it would've cost Cody, who has shown that he can play here. Regier would've wanted to get the best option for Zack, and it would've taken an over payment since it was at the deadline.

What people need to realize is that they're fittingly called "prospects" for the reason that prospectively (in the FUTURE) their careers will go into full bloom, and they need to have development time. Potential (n. Having or showing the capacity to develop into something in the future) needs to be nurtured and developed. In other words, it's too early to judge!

Zack or Marcus, both being power forwards, also give the team the missing element of strength and size/ nastiness that this team's management deemed was necessary. Cody, while a multifaceted offensive talent, didn't provide the size and strength, and his attitude was part of the reason management felt it was time to drive him out to the airport. Of course, it would've been nice IMO to get someone further along in their progress than Zack who played the power game (or I would've taken Cody for Brayden Schenn), but again, Zack's still young. Let him develop.

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#178 canacks1970

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:35 PM

What happened to all the sutters, Stalls, Schenns, Koivu. We could both go on and on. The fact is both Foligno brothers are playing in the nhl and there is a reason why we got Kassian and not Foligno. Buffalo saw more value in Foligno.






Yes !!!But it doesn't always happens. And that was the point when you said he had the right jeans because his Brother and Dad play in the NHL. That not every sibling or son of a great player is going to have great success . Would you have given Kassian a break if his name was Clarke,Lafleur,Linden,Naslund,Sutter,Pyatt,Reinhart? Would that given Kassian more value if he was related or had brothers or father played in the NHL with great success?
The fact is you started this thread of what if? Do we really know whats going to happen to Kassian in two till three years.? No we don't ..And what are you going to say if he turns out to be the power forward they were looking for?.What happens if Foligno career doesn't get any better then it is now? I'm not saying your wrong Italia. I understand what your getting at. But we don't know if Buffalo was going to give Foligno to Gillis or did he had an option. And we don't know if Gillis was looking at a certain type of player.
I know its easier for us to say we could of had this player or that. But we don't know if the OTHER GM will part with certain players.
No offense Italia but your thread stated Kassian or Foligno if you could do it all over again?..
What was the point of starting this thread if you really believe Buffalo saw more value in Foligno? How could we start over again ? We still wouldn't get Foligno anyways .Do you See where I'm getting at.!!!

Edited by canacks1970, 22 May 2012 - 02:22 PM.


#179 TheEhrhoffEffect

TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:07 PM

Because Gillis believed that we already had a strong enough team because it was basically the same team that went to the finals the previous year.

Kassian was never expected to be a impact player, he was only expected to be a role player.

None of that mattered though since our core players didn't show up.

Minus Ehrhoff, Torres and Samuelsson. There was no chance in hell that this team would have made a deep run in the playoffs. Lack of defensive and scoring depth killed them and the only reason for why they won the President's trophy is because they play in the easiest division in hockey.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 22 May 2012 - 02:09 PM.


#180 sedated

sedated

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:08 PM

Hodgson did seem to have a knack for big goals, but then time passed, and it became evident that for every big goal he had, there was long stretches of 5-20 games where he didn't get a goal at all.

The guy had a tremendous showing at the juniors, and he really did stand among some great young players.. but they are all far better than he is now. And honestly, with how big of gaps Hodgson started to go without points.. it was hard to see him having that same potential to do a lot more.

Kassian might not have done as much, but there were games where he took over, and physically did very, very well. So you could see that potential for him to do a lot and be a great player. Where as Hodgson it just.. wasn't there. Maybe it will be one day, but honestly I think he got massively overrated for a few goals against big teams that were starting to struggle. That sexy goal against Boston seemed to make people love him, even when he went 20 games without a goal after that before he got traded.




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