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Does Bieksa Belong On First D-Pairing?

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#31 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:30 AM

Considering how high risk Edler is, it would not be a good pairing. Can we clone a mirror image Hamhuis - one that shoots right? Tanev is not it. He is alright as a sixth D, but not much more - at least not yet - maybe in another year. We'll have to see how our prospects have progressed, but if HF is right, we don't have much in the pipe, contrary to the propoganda issuing from the Canucks head office and their fans - rated 29th for player scouting/development and they deserve every last bit of that awful rating. Of course, trading away your first round picks for dreck doesn't help, nor does trading two fourths+ for Pahlsson.


I would love to see some sort of source that shows off this apparent 'rated 29th for player scouting/development'. And since you dont have a source you full of #$%$!

Edit - Oh wait I found it...its an ESPN article...from pre season 2011....nuff said.

The article also shows that the teams that are ranked highest are teams that have been stock piling top picks due to terrible showings over the last 5 years or more.

Edited by 5minutesinthebox, 22 May 2012 - 01:04 AM.


#32 Phil_314

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:12 AM

Better to have balance on difference lines than overplay strengths on one line while neglecting others.

Hammer (D stabilizer, calm presence) - Juice (aggressive, jumps up on the play and pinches, looks for big hits)
Edler (aggressive, can make defensive stops but mainly offensive-minded) - Salo/ Tanev (mobile stabilizer, makes safe plays)

OP, can you not see how the team would be in trouble if Juice and Eagle (Eddie) were exposed as a pairing without one of the D-oriented guys to clean up after them? (to answer your topic: Bieksa belongs on the first line all right, as long as Hamhuis is there)

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#33 Bodee

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:41 AM

You could argue Bieksa is too good for this team.

He's a winner, a fighter, a guy that makes things happen and a player who stands up for his team mates.

As for the smart asses who come away with the brain fart cracks, well you tend to make a mistake now and again when you are the only one trying to make things happen.

He belongs on the first D because he's a leader who tries to get the job done.
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#34 Baggins

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 02:49 AM

<p>

Not even close. Ballard was much better than him during the playoffs. I don't care if Bieksa was injured. If that is the case, AV should have switched up the pairings. AV is an idiot.

So Ballard was better for 5 whole games while not playing against the opositions top line = better than Bieksa? Ok sparky.The big problem with Ballard is his inability to play right side. Which means he is third pairing behind Hamhuis and Edler. Which is exactly why his $4.2m cap hit should be moved.

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#35 RBCanucks

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:40 AM

Bieksa is hands down our top defenseman behind Hamhuis. Even if we had a guy like Shea Weber on our team to replace Salo after he retires I would still argue Bieksa is the guy that should be paired with Hammer on the 1st defense pairing.

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Weber (wishful thinking)
Ballard-Tanev

Edited by rbcanucks87, 22 May 2012 - 03:44 AM.


#36 Baggins

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:03 AM

only on contract years......


Out of 297 d-men (or the 60 top pair) that played in 11/12 Bieksa was.....

28th for goals scored
11th for assists
13th for points
29th for +/-

If only it was a contract year.....

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#37 samurai

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:10 AM

the other good thing about Kevin besides his game is he gives good straight interviews. Very honest and with a sense of humor.

#38 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:05 AM

Yes he is good enough to play on a first pairing. But playing him with Edler just doesn't work, they've tried it, and it didn't work.

#39 It's Bieksa's Fault

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

Does it really matter? The Canucks had four good defencemen last year so that it didn't matter whether it was Edler - Salo followed by Hamhuis - Bieksa or the other way around.


#40 thad

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:04 AM

You could argue Bieksa is too good for this team.

He's a winner, a fighter, a guy that makes things happen and a player who stands up for his team mates.

As for the smart asses who come away with the brain fart cracks, well you tend to make a mistake now and again when you are the only one trying to make things happen.

He belongs on the first D because he's a leader who tries to get the job done.

Hahaha well said

#41 Dogbyte

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:36 PM

We've all seen Bieksa try to pull an Alex Edler, and, miserably fail. Hamhuis almost always makes the smart play, minus the last 5 seconds of the Canucks season. What if AV put Tanev with Hamhuis to make a very smart shutdown d-pair, and Bieksa with Edler to make more of an offensive pair?

If those two move to the third line and we bring in two other guys that know how to play defence I'm all for trying it. Otherwise, on any line that sees significant ice time and good competition it's an absolute nightmare waiting to happen. Must have missed all the threads regarding their partnership in the playoffs.

Bieksa is hands down our top defenseman behind Hamhuis. Even if we had a guy like Shea Weber on our team to replace Salo after he retires I would still argue Bieksa is the guy that should be paired with Hammer on the 1st defense pairing.

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Weber (wishful thinking)
Ballard-Tanev

And people wonder why our defence sucks. :lol:

Edited by Dogbyte, 22 May 2012 - 12:44 PM.

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#42 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:43 PM

You actually think we would be a better team with Hedman than Bieksa and Burrows?

Whhooooaa, either your credibility is shrinking, or your building a team to win around Hedman and Kassian in 3 years?

Calgary needs a GM like you???

No. We should trade him and Burrows for Hedman.

Is this 2009?


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#43 b3nnyb

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

We need still to trade for that 1-1a defenceman. No one has stepped up to be worthy. Edler is the only one close enough. I think that hurt us this year, especially when it came down to playoff time. Lu got hung out to dry to many times. I like our D but there is a stepdown from Edler to the rest as far as scoring potential. A healthy Salo was nice to see but he is out of his prime. We go and get that D we are going to the cup again.

#44 nuck nit

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:02 PM

Out of 297 d-men (or the 60 top pair) that played in 11/12 Bieksa was.....
28th for goals scored
11th for assists
13th for points
29th for +/-
If only it was a contract year.....


Bieksa was tied for fifth place amongst all active NHL d men in payment at $7 million per season.

Kevin was tied for 28th-33rd place in goals scored amongst all NHL d men.

Hamhuis was rated # 2 in +/- . $5 million per season payment.

Bieksa? 29th -35th spot tie for plus/minus.

Power play goals? Bieksa is in the 41st - 65th tie slot with TWO big ones scored in the entire freaking season.

Salo scored SEVEN -you remember Salo? The heart n soul Canuck without a Gillis contract.Tied for FOURTH in the entire National League.

Salo made two lousy million dollars and was fourth best in the league,playing in only 69 games.

I could go on but it is wasting my time.

Edited by nuck nit, 22 May 2012 - 05:33 PM.


#45 Kack Zassian

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:39 PM

Bieksa was tied for fifth place amongst all active NHL d men in payment at $7 million per season.

Hamhuis was rated # 2 in +/- . $5 million per season payment.

Salo made two lousy million dollars and was fourth best in the league,playing in only 69 games.

I could go on but it is wasting my time.


I could explain how the salary cap works but I feel like I would be wasting my time...

#46 nuck nit

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:46 PM

Sorry,bud,right from Capgeek,not hard to look when you are wasting our time.

http://capgeek.com/l...tion=D&limit=25

Edited by nuck nit, 22 May 2012 - 07:16 PM.


#47 Kack Zassian

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:26 PM

Sorry,bud,right from Capgeek,not hard to look when you are wasting our time.

http://capgeek.com/l...tion=D&limit=25


Do you know the difference between salary and cap hit?

Because that 7 million dollars is as irrelevant as Jody Shelley.

#48 nuck nit

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:51 PM

You do know the difference between 'payment' and 'cap hit' ?

Relevant as a first round,one win exit.

#49 Flying Man

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

Hamhuis > Bieksa

#50 WheelOfDiscipline

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:47 PM

depends how he's playing at the time unfortunately consistency needs a bit of work but when he's on his game for sure

#51 Kack Zassian

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:47 PM

You do know the difference between 'payment' and 'cap hit' ?

Relevant as a first round,one win exit.


Care to explain how "payment" is relevant?

#52 Baggins

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:40 AM

Bieksa was tied for fifth place amongst all active NHL d men in payment at $7 million per season.

Kevin was tied for 28th-33rd place in goals scored amongst all NHL d men.

Hamhuis was rated # 2 in +/- . $5 million per season payment.

Bieksa? 29th -35th spot tie for plus/minus.

Power play goals? Bieksa is in the 41st - 65th tie slot with TWO big ones scored in the entire freaking season.

Salo scored SEVEN -you remember Salo? The heart n soul Canuck without a Gillis contract.Tied for FOURTH in the entire National League.

Salo made two lousy million dollars and was fourth best in the league,playing in only 69 games.

I could go on but it is wasting my time.


Among the dumbest posts I've seen. And that's saying something considering some of your others.

#1 Learn what a "front loaded" contract is.(and Bieksa's isn't one those 20 year deals with cap reducers at the end)

#2 Tied for 28th -33rd would put him where? Top 60 players, or the 30 top pairings? As you brought up Hamhuis in +/- why not goals? He was 77th - 103 @ $1.25m per goal. Bieksa was was under $1m per goal even if you ignore cap hit. Under $550k if you use cap hit. Hamhuis sucks! lol

#3 see #1

#4 Bieksa was on our 2nd pp unit. You know, behind our 2nd line that sucked all year. Salo played 1st unit behind a pair of Art Ross winners. How did Hamhuis do?

#5 Bouncing from player to player while cherry picking a single stat is pretty useless and doesn't paint a picture. How did Salo stack up in assists? How about total points? How about hits? How about blocked shots? How about even strength goals? How did Hamhuis rate on pp goals, assists, hits, and blocked shots? Post those answers sparky.

#6 Yes, you could go on. But it would just be more of your blinders on cherry picking bs that you continually post here.

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#53 Kack Zassian

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

Among the dumbest posts I've seen. And that's saying something considering some of your others.

#1 Learn what a "front loaded" contract is.(and Bieksa's isn't one those 20 year deals with cap reducers at the end)


But didn't you hear?!? Player salary is extremely relevant and you should not pay attention to cap hits!

#54 nd84

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:00 PM

Bieksa may be a bit overpaid but he is one solid 2 way defensman.

He just needs to start picking the right spots in certain situations. Those are just habits he needs to fix
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#55 Guest_Dasein_*

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:06 PM

Look at New Jersey - all you really need is a good system and players who stick to the system.

I think our system is pretty good, but Bieksa tends to stray away from it - or maybe the coaching staff gave him the green light to roam around because Hamhuis is out there with him.

#56 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:20 PM

Look at New Jersey - all you really need is a good system and players who stick to the system.

I think our system is pretty good, but Bieksa tends to stray away from it - or maybe the coaching staff gave him the green light to roam around because Hamhuis is out there with him.


This

Phoenix, New York and New Jersey does not have a *star* defencemen, or even Norris calibre, defencemen on their team. That being said, I am still all for the Canucks going after a Norris calibre dman like Suter or WEber.

 

Well, I , I feel very good about this draft, but I, I think, potentially you know were gonna have 3 or 4 NHL players out of this group, ummmm, you know like we are not going to prejudice to were they are from.

 

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#57 Guest_Dasein_*

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:23 PM

This

Phoenix, New York and New Jersey does not have a *star* defencemen, or even Norris calibre, defencemen on their team. That being said, I am still all for the Canucks going after a Norris calibre dman like Suter or WEber.


Phoenix has OEL who is pretty unreal and Keith Yandle who was in the Norris talk last season, and New York has a stud group of Marc Staal, Girardi, McDonaugh and Del Zotto. Jersey is truly the team that has absolutely no name players except Volchenkov who is known just for his hitting and shot-blocking.

I also want the Canucks going after a Norris calibre defenseman like you are though.

#58 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:03 AM

As much as I would like Weber here, I don't think it will happen, but I would be more than happy with Ryan Suter.

Bieksa Hamhuis
Edler Suter
Ballard Tanev

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Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


 

 

"You don't know this, but Trevor Linden had cracked ribs and torn rib cartilage for the last four games of the 1994 Stanley Cup Final," Cliff Ronning said. "You can't imagine what it's like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn't hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened. That was inspirational."

 


#59 Baggins

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:21 PM

But didn't you hear?!? Player salary is extremely relevant and you should not pay attention to cap hits!


In most cases I'd completely agree with you. I can understand talking actual salary regarding players with lifelong contracts as the cap hit is deceiving. The ones that have cap reducers in their old age you know won't be played out. Like Pronger, Lou, and even Ehrhoff, That doesn't apply to Bieksa's contract. Which makes references to the first year just plain stupid. These are the same guys that will use his cap hit in the final year instead of calling him a bargain at $2.5m. They cherry pick what that serve their purpose.

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#60 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:44 PM

Phoenix has OEL who is pretty unreal and Keith Yandle who was in the Norris talk last season, and New York has a stud group of Marc Staal, Girardi, McDonaugh and Del Zotto. Jersey is truly the team that has absolutely no name players except Volchenkov who is known just for his hitting and shot-blocking.

I also want the Canucks going after a Norris calibre defenseman like you are though.


Although he doesn't seem to be playing these playoffs, the Devils also have Adam Larsson waiting in the wings. He's going to be a fine defenceman.
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