Stop Avoiding The Obvious: Its Time For A Mini-Rebuild

[Tortorella's Rant]

I would really like to see Luongo stay, there is nothing wrong with this team.

You people are spoiled and annoying lol. This is the best team Vancouver has ever had.

[Guest BuckFoston]

yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah same old thread year after year.........

If the league had this team figured out, why did they make it to the finals a couple seasons ago? That's right, only the Bruins did against an injury riddled team with the refs hugging Cam Neely's ball sack.

The LA Kings seemed destined to win the cup this year, the Canucks were the only team that gave them any real competition in these playoffs, aside from games 1 and 2 of course.

So lets take a step back from the panic button and look at the big picture for a moment.

[Bodee]

"more and more stale as the years go on."

Sorry man but I can't agree with a statement like this.

If you are saying we are short of 2 or 3 pieces, then yes I have to agree. However you just seem to be making a list, you are not offering any ideas or solutions.

Kesler can hardly be a beast if he has been on and off injured. Apart from the injury there is only one factor which has limited Kes in my opinion and that is Booth and his style of play. I would rather see Kes with Raymond again when he gets fit and if we use Booth for a solid grit player like Evander Kane that would be fine by me.......otherwise try him with the Sedins.

As for the insulting reference to Lu, I can't believe any Canucks fan would say something like that. If you don't like the guy, fair enough but to imply without any grounds that he "upsets" the room is totally ridiculous. Even his main rival is one of his best friends it would appear.

[Angry Goose]

I would really like to see Luongo stay, there is nothing wrong with this team.

You people are spoiled and annoying lol. This is the best team Vancouver has ever had.

[Angry Goose]

oops

[Guest BuckFoston]

Well, they obviously can't keep both. Schneider is obviously younger and arguably just as good as Luongo and clearly more consistent. I don't want to see Roberto leave either but for the sake of the team he's probably the one that will go.

[Clonedanielsedin]

you are all dooms day freaks, It is better if I stay away.

[sedated]

Lol. A cancer would be not being willing to be traded and forcing the Canucks to move Schneider.

Schneider is not the next 'face of the franchise' either. He hasn't got the personality, or emotion to do that. He's just not the right type. Luongo's ethic and persona made him an actual good choice to be captain in most senses, but Schneider would never be a guy like that.

The only real identity this team has right now is Luongo and his 'attitude' which people love or hate, Bieksa and his random mean streak, and Kesler when he actually gives a crap with his play, which unfortunately, is usually a series in the playoffs if he's not injured, or about half of the year. But even then, Kesler and his attitude are heinous and not really something you want to build around character wise.

Myself currently, I don't like what this team is all about right now. The twins are too business like, Kesler is considered a 'leader' on our team and he's.. well. not a good leader. At all.

Luongo is honestly one of the only personalities I like on the team. He wants to win. He gets emotional about it. And he will bring it often. Kesler had a LOt of potential.. but the older he's gotten, the worse has attitude got. I'd like him, if he wasn't honestly such a pathetic diver. That cartwheel was pretty much the last straw for me. Sedin's are just to business like. I admire their ability to cycle and it must be tough but even playoff inability aside, it's just not really the type of character I like.

Part of me thinks AV and his carefree attitude is to blame.

I would be down for a rebuild, but I'd actually think of it in more of a what the team would be like with certain players in, and out. Schneider over Luongo really isn't going to change anything, in my opinion. It's other areas lacking right now. I wouldn't mind if a goalie, or even Luongo is traded, but if Schneider gets us more, I'd rather trade him. Because Luongo brings personality and a standout character to the team, something it desperately needs.

[Canuck Surfer]

Just connect a few dots.

Team loses confidence in whats going on

Key players start playing disappointing hockey after deadline > loosing streak

Kess spouts out when called out by the coach

We put in a weak play off effort.

Lou says he will accept a trade

Its widely reported/rumoured Lou actually demanded a trade (not saying true...)

MG calls out Hodgson

Roberts calls MG a Moron

AV gets a new contract

AV Spouts off saying several dumb things (Lou does want out, calls out Kesler again, but pulls his injury excuse.)

Keslers agents suggests a Turnip could figure out the injury affected his play.

It sure appears its not exactly one big happy family? Dyu think Kesler's agent is not a reflection of his interests?

The first part is the only part I almost agreed with a little bit, and then POW!!! Kesler appears to want out????

That is a very special kind of reading between the lines. The kind that is usually indicative of a bad case of Syphilis.

[Bodee]

Obviously they can keep both if both parties agree and work a deal out as was said by Schneider's agent that is was a possibility that was on the table. Obviously we don't know how good Schneider is playing 60+ games and he will obviously also have bad stretches as any goalie does where he will be ripped to shreds here the same way as Luongo. Obviously.

[mpt]

Depends on his birthday

[BlazeOn]

OP is dumbass. That is all.

[Sick Hands]

There will be at least one new top-6 forward, a top-4 d-man, and pretty darn sure that there will be a new goalie (as a back-up to one of the guys already here).

That should be enough change for you.

regards,

G.

[mpt]

I wouldn't say we need a rebuild but we do need to make a few ballsy moves to tweak our roster and round out our core group of players we build around.

[Boudrias]

Yes this org requires some tweaking which includes moving Lou. Not because he is a cancer but simply for the $ involved Schneider is a better option.

IMHO the Canucks are not a balanced team. The philososphy seems to be 'run & gun' with an effort towards puck possession but not a real committment to that. That thought allowed MG to let Torres walk when Van needed his speed and physical play in playoffs. Was Bitz his replacement? In effect Van is built for regular season play. Playoff defences are able to counter the Canuck offence with no physical game to alternate too. The 3rd & 4th lines were recognized as deficient after the Boston loss but once again this spring the same sceanario occurred when the coach determined they were not reliable enough to play enough minutes that are required in a 4 series CUP run. Once again the physical element in the Canuck game was not good enough. Fans can take some solace in that MG seems to realize the short comings in their philosophy and dealt for Kassian. My concern is implimentation by coaching and that Kassian is a ways away from having a real impact. MG cannot be through with this approach.

What Lou gave the Canucks over his tenure was more than reliable goaltending. The best since MacLean. However his play covered up for defensive weaknesses. The biggest challenge faced by the Canucks is with the d-core. Edler has not yet proven to be a QB or a reliable physical defender. MG has to determine whether that is possible within the timeframe of his core group winning a CUP. Moving Lou has to bring back a top 2 dman who can lead that d-core to CUP contending quality. Mitchell had that ability as he is proving in LA. I don't blame MG for not signing him as the risk was certainly there. I suspect Willie had some problem accepting the 'offence first' mantra as a heavy forecheck had already exposed that weakness.

The CUP run final against Boston was the culmination of career bests for many Canucks. Assuming that would be repeated should not have been expected. Writing off Kesler is not warranted. I suspect he will adjust his game more as both he and Burrows have done over the past 3 years. That said the offensive challenge for the past two years in playoffs have been the 2nd line. We will see how MG addresses that. I suspect Raymond will be a casualty and I say that with regret as his development with the Canucks was poor to say the least. He should have been in the AHL for at least 2 seasons and was rushed into the NHL in response to a talent deprived roster under Nonis. He has trade worth and is a 3rd line quality player. I cannot see MG keeping both Manny and Lapierre.

Watching the CUP finalist this year it should become very obvious that the 4th liners cannot be considered as after thoughts on contending teams. In 4 series CUP runs the deepest teams have the greater chances of success. Affordable 4th lines come from development and are successful because of team structure. I suggest that teams which play their 4th lines for 5 minutes a game do not have adequate structure for playoff success. Van does not have that structure.

[mpt]

Yes this org requires some tweaking which includes moving Lou. Not because he is a cancer but simply for the $ involved Schneider is a better option.

IMHO the Canucks are not a balanced team. The philososphy seems to be 'run & gun' with an effort towards puck possession but not a real committment to that. That thought allowed MG to let Torres walk when Van needed his speed and physical play in playoffs. Was Bitz his replacement? In effect Van is built for regular season play. Playoff defences are able to counter the Canuck offence with no physical game to alternate too. The 3rd & 4th lines were recognized as deficient after the Boston loss but once again this spring the same sceanario occurred when the coach determined they were not reliable enough to play enough minutes that are required in a 4 series CUP run. Once again the physical element in the Canuck game was not good enough. Fans can take some solace in that MG seems to realize the short comings in their philosophy and dealt for Kassian. My concern is implimentation by coaching and that Kassian is a ways away from having a real impact. MG cannot be through with this approach.

What Lou gave the Canucks over his tenure was more than reliable goaltending. The best since MacLean. However his play covered up for defensive weaknesses. The biggest challenge faced by the Canucks is with the d-core. Edler has not yet proven to be a QB or a reliable physical defender. MG has to determine whether that is possible within the timeframe of his core group winning a CUP. Moving Lou has to bring back a top 2 dman who can lead that d-core to CUP contending quality. Mitchell had that ability as he is proving in LA. I don't blame MG for not signing him as the risk was certainly there. I suspect Willie had some problem accepting the 'offence first' mantra as a heavy forecheck had already exposed that weakness.

The CUP run final against Boston was the culmination of career bests for many Canucks. Assuming that would be repeated should not have been expected. Writing off Kesler is not warranted. I suspect he will adjust his game more as both he and Burrows have done over the past 3 years. That said the offensive challenge for the past two years in playoffs have been the 2nd line. We will see how MG addresses that. I suspect Raymond will be a casualty and I say that with regret as his development with the Canucks was poor to say the least. He should have been in the AHL for at least 2 seasons and was rushed into the NHL in response to a talent deprived roster under Nonis. He has trade worth and is a 3rd line quality player. I cannot see MG keeping both Manny and Lapierre.

Watching the CUP finalist this year it should become very obvious that the 4th liners cannot be considered as after thoughts on contending teams. In 4 series CUP runs the deepest teams have the greater chances of success. Affordable 4th lines come from development and are successful because of team structure. I suggest that teams which play their 4th lines for 5 minutes a game do not have adequate structure for playoff success. Van does not have that structure.

[TotesMagotes]

[komodo1970]

This team is a tough one to figure out. Two straight Presidents Trophy's and easily the best team we've ever had. Yet there is so much unrest when it comes to the playoffs. They just can't seem to get over the hump, but are so close. It seems, a lot of fans want a minor shake up, but who gets dealt? I myself have re-tooled this team a hundred times, but always found flaws in my thinking.

Lou is obviously going, but that's not the needed move. His retarded contract is going to make any deal complicated and in the end could be one of the greatest errors in NHL history (up ther with the Di'Pietro deal). If they can't get a deal done by the beginning of next season, it could get ugly. Lou won't return to the line up now that he has expressed his want to leave. The nightly barrage of displeasure from the fans would be brutal. It's too late for him to save face. The new CBA may offer an out, but do the Aquilini's want to stroke a cheque for 3/4 of his remaining contract? Any return may be mediocre at best.

A big top four dman is on the wishlist. I,like everyone else, would love to see Shea Weber in Canuck colors, but at what cost? If it turns out Weber has no interest in returning to Trashville, Poille will want the house for him and MG would be stupid to do it. With the draft this year being shallow, our pick wouldn't be as coveted as in other years. I'm sure there would be teams out there willing to give up a lot more than we can offer. Suter is a UFA, but I think his pefference would be to stay in America, and is going to be wanting top dollar and will get it. After that the market drops off.

A top six forward (prefferably a center) is also a need. Parise would be amazing, but recent success may change his mind about leaving. If he still wants out, again, he will be looking for top dollar, and will get it. If Staal is truly unhappy in Pittsburgh, maybe we could put together a package for him, but he wants first or second line minutes. Can Vancouver provide this on a permanent basis?

Kesler is once again injured and will be out for the start of next season. He says he's gonna come back better than ever, but that remains to be seen. If he does, however, we're lookin good. If he doesn't get back to his edgy self, however, I can see him becoming expendable next season. Finding a compatible winger for him will be key. I think Booth is a good winger but isn't what Kesler needs. Either dropping Booth to the third line or dealing him are the only two options, in my opinion. I feel Nicholas Jensen is going to be our new rookie next season and starts on the second line. He is not bottom six material and needs second line minutes to maximize his potential.

In the end, I think re-tooling with our own youth is the smartest move, rather than committing to more rediculous contracts and handcuffing the team even more.

We already have Kevin Connauton shaping up pretty nicely with Chicago, but I would like to see more size added with an emphasis on defensive zone coverage. A deal that would see Jarred Tinnordi come from Montreal would be sweet. Us weaseling our way into the top five and stealing Griffin Reinhart would be nice too.

For now, however we ride what we have, picking up cheaper fill ins that don't demand long term contracts and huge money. Our team is still successful and exciting to watch. Who knows maybe with the right combination we still find a way to win it all.

[Baggins]

At this point in time, most think it is an overreaction to say it is time to consider dealing some big names, but lets look at what we're up against here:: The league has figured out our system, they know how to shut down the Sedins and Kesler, they know how to infiltrate out defense, and they know AV's coaching style. Not to mention they know Roberto's flaws.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Obviously they can keep both if both parties agree and work a deal out as was said by Schneider's agent that is was a possibility that was on the table. Obviously we don't know how good Schneider is playing 60+ games and he will obviously also have bad stretches as any goalie does where he will be ripped to shreds here the same way as Luongo. Obviously.