Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

Mark Donnelly


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
132 replies to this topic

#61 Hyzer

Hyzer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,919 posts
  • Joined: 29-March 12

Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:57 PM

By saying "people have a choice" you are automatically saying an unborn child is not a person. Now, i recognize you did not use those words, but it is implied because the only one allowed to make a choice is the one giving birth, the one being given birth to has no say. Care to explain why you think an unborn child is less than human, or at the very least, less than a person?


People have a choice. Don't like it? Then don't follow them. Live and let live. Don't force your beliefs on others that don't want it.

#62 Captain Hindsight

Captain Hindsight

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 549 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:03 PM

By saying "people have a choice" you are automatically saying an unborn child is not a person. Now, i recognize you did not use those words, but it is implied because the only one allowed to make a choice is the one giving birth, the one being given birth to has no say. Care to explain why you think an unborn child is less than human, or at the very least, less than a person?


Legally the unborn child does not have a birth certificate... the government must not consider he/she a person yet...

#63 WiDeN

WiDeN

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,754 posts
  • Joined: 08-December 06

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:06 PM

I'm Pro Donelly's choice to choose where he wants to sing, and for whatever reasons he see's fit.

Agreed.

Abortions suck

I don't think anyone likes them.

V a n c o u v e r C a n u c k s

MirandaKerr.jpg
2 0 1 5 S t a n l e y C u p C h a m p i o n s


#64 WL Canuck Fan

WL Canuck Fan

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:24 PM

People have a choice. Don't like it? Then don't follow them. Live and let live. Don't force your beliefs on others that don't want it.

So you are sayin the unborn has no say at all? It would seem you are pushing your views on them. The differennce between them and me is that they can't speak for or defend theselves.
Sig too big.

#65 WL Canuck Fan

WL Canuck Fan

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:29 PM


Legally the unborn child does not have a birth certificate... the government must not consider he/she a person yet...

So a personn is not a person without a birth certificate? If a child is raised in say a ultra orthodox communnity, say Hutterite, and has nno birth certificate, I am not committing murder if I kill them no matter what age they are? Seems thhe criteeria of murder would have nothing to do withh a birth certificate.
Sig too big.

#66 Kryten

Kryten

    Aladdin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,272 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 12

Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:47 PM

What a woman does with her body is her own damn business, same with a man.

Mark was hardly bombing an abortion clinic, I don't agree with him but I do agree with free speech.
Posted Image

#67 jiffyjc12

jiffyjc12

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 03

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:13 PM

As a former fetus I'm against abortion. However I believe we all have a right to believe and stand up for whatever we believe in. I don't think it matters what company you are tied to. Remember this is why we all love to live in this country because we don't have to hide or be ashamed of what we choose to believe in. Let the man do what he wants without judging him. Because you all wish to do the same.
"if you aren't trying to cheat you aren't trying to win"

Jyrki Lumme

#68 G.K. Chesterton

G.K. Chesterton

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,112 posts
  • Joined: 19-June 06

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:16 PM

I have nothing but admiration for his conviction - and his vulnerability in declaring his opposition to abortion.

"I've noticed that everyone who is in favour of abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan

Edited by blister soul, 01 June 2012 - 09:17 PM.

“Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.” - G.K. Chesterton

“Unbelief is as much of a choice as belief is. What makes it in many ways more appealing is that whereas to believe in something requires some measure of understanding and effort, not to believe doesn't require much of anything at all.” - Frederick Buechner

“All human nature vigorously resists grace because grace changes us and the change is painful.” - Flannery O'Connor


“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” - C.S. Lewis

#69 Ray_Cathode

Ray_Cathode

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,863 posts
  • Joined: 07-September 07

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:40 PM

Aw forget it, bring on the debate!

Here's my pro-choice argument:

1. There are too many people on the planet. Why keep the unwanted ones around too?

2. Whether you are pro-life or pro-choice, it's not like abortions are going to go away. It's either back-alley stuff or your dumpster babies. Not going to go away.


Here's my pro-life argument:

1. You're going to hell. (You were likely going there anyway, but now you're really in Jesus' bad books.)

2. Orhpans. Sure, it's impossible to adopt a local one these days, but that doesn't mean we aren't exporting them.

3. Not enough Canadians on the planet. Pop 'em out.


TOML


If there are too many people on the planet, we should have retro-active abortions so that all the harm certain people have done could be undone - like retro-actively abort HItler, or Stalin, or Mao, or Pol Pot, or Obama. Think of all the lives saved and damage undone. Or we could have abortions when we see how people turn out - sort of like GB Shaw's idea. As for Canadians, there are too many stupid Canadians - we should be allowed to abort Leaf Fans, or environmentalists, or Luddites like Mulcair. Or Georege Soros, there's a good one, the guy that bought the last election for Obama and is trying to shut down Canadian oil production, and is financing community organizing around the world so that when the revolution comes, he comes out on top with all the money and all the power, and you damn well do as you are told.

#70 Xbox

Xbox

    Formerly Lups

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,851 posts
  • Joined: 02-November 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

TBH I am still neutral in the Life/Choice argument. The things stem cells can do for handicap people is incredible and amazing but at the expense of an unborn life, thats a high cost.

Edited by Henrik Sedin, 01 June 2012 - 09:43 PM.

2yo50sh.jpg

small.pngGM - STHS                                  Sig Cred to -Vintage Canuck-

 

 


#71 etsen3

etsen3

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,014 posts
  • Joined: 02-July 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:45 PM

Meh, I don't care. His beliefs are his beliefs. People are allowed to protest, demonstrate and get their points of view out there. Celebrities are always making public campaigns for causes they believe in, Mark Donnelly should be allowed to as well.

#72 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,839 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:16 PM

Who wouldn't want him to sing the anthem for them? He puts other singers to shame :P

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#73 Tangelos

Tangelos

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,954 posts
  • Joined: 16-April 12

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:55 PM

By saying "people have a choice" you are automatically saying an unborn child is not a person. Now, i recognize you did not use those words, but it is implied because the only one allowed to make a choice is the one giving birth, the one being given birth to has no say. Care to explain why you think an unborn child is less than human, or at the very least, less than a person?


an unborn child is not a person. It has no thoughts, emotions or free will. Also does sperm have any say when a guy "whacks off"? If an abortion is bad, I can't imagine what you think of guys who are killing thousands of potential ppl everyday.

Edited by 6OH!4, 01 June 2012 - 10:58 PM.

(Sig removed by mod)
Previously Doug The Thug Glatt


#74 ccc44

ccc44

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,423 posts
  • Joined: 29-April 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:02 PM

Our anthem man, MD, has chosen to sing the national anthem at an anti-abortion rally. I find it rather appropriate that someone so closely linked to this team has come out in support of this divisive, graphic campaign.
Link to article : http://sports.yahoo....-192042820.html





P.S. The group he sang for drives 22 ft billboards displaying graphic images around the city. Is that really something young people in our society need to see? Regardless of the cause "shock" marketing is garbage.

I Think people have a right to support and show passion for what they believe in even if its controversial and knowing he has strong religious beliefs and has very large family of children his support against abortion is no surprise
Posted Image
SHOTS ! SHOTS ! SHOTS !

#75 Rypien37

Rypien37

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: 26-March 07

Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:32 PM

Doesn't apply as well since he lost a lot of weight....but.....


Posted Image

R.I.P. Your heart and fearlessness will be remembered


#76 Newsflash

Newsflash

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,360 posts
  • Joined: 30-December 08

Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:47 PM

If there are too many people on the planet, we should have retro-active abortions so that all the harm certain people have done could be undone - like retro-actively abort HItler, or Stalin, or Mao, or Pol Pot, or Obama.


Not sure if serious.

Buddy I called this EXACT situtation on here two years ago and was flamed, so I guess I have a bit of hockey knowledge, not to mention the 4 years I played in the OHL idiot.


The conspiracy theories that used to be against Lateralus:
Puberty, life, movie theaters, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out, movie theaters that frown upon you pulling it out during a children's movie, Toy Story 3, Pixar, who ever decided to make Woody so damn attractive, a job, his mothers basement, being 40, being 40 five years ago, dogs who can out run him, all dogs, the Olympic committee, Truth, Fact, Honesty, Logic, Newsflash, a father figure who was there to see him learn to ride his first bike, bikes,

#77 stormchaser

stormchaser

    K-Wing Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Joined: 15-October 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:20 AM

an unborn child is not a person. It has no thoughts, emotions or free will. Also does sperm have any say when a guy "whacks off"? If an abortion is bad, I can't imagine what you think of guys who are killing thousands of potential ppl everyday.


That's awfully stupid, there's no life in sperm, simply DNA. Life occurs when sperm and egg combine, or were you too busy laughing at the word "vagina" in sex ed. class to pay attention to that? It's a well documented fact that, at an incredibly early point in the development of a fetus, it can experience pain and emotion.

I do believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I very much support those people that would oppose abortion by personal choice, but also understand that there are some extreme cases (rape, for example, that leads to unwanted birth). But really, why do we have such a hard time understanding that "shock messaging" only serves to further divide people? If you have the choice of telling someone, "Hey, your ideas are the stupidest things I've ever heard, you must like murdering babies" or "Hey, you've obviously got some good reasons for believing what you do, why don't we talk about it and learn each others thoughts?", which one do you think will garner a more open and useful dialogue? We have to learn how to discuss without alienating.

#78 Clonedanielsedin

Clonedanielsedin

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,353 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 06

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:30 AM

i am anti-abortion unless it involves rape

#79 pianoman13

pianoman13

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 999 posts
  • Joined: 09-December 06

Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:15 AM

I'm just going to say I respect him even more now. Not even going to comment on other posts because there is no point arguing over the internet. People believe what they believe, if attacking others is what makes you feel big then go for it. Otherwise we could just stick to talking hockey.......

No videos in sig please. 


#80 Quaz

Quaz

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 146 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 04:48 AM

Our human rights give both sides the right to voice an opinion.

The abortion issue comes down to how you answer these 2 questions
(1) Do human beings possess intrinsic value?
(2) Is the developing fetus a human being?

For those who wish to read more on the subject,
go to: http://www.reasonabl...ential-politics

#81 tas

tas

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,832 posts
  • Joined: 16-July 06

Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:12 AM

i'm not pro choice, i'm pro abortion.

#82 OLd Canuck

OLd Canuck

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Joined: 18-June 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:05 AM

It is going to be a long summer.

#83 canuckdynasty

canuckdynasty

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Joined: 26-February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:41 AM

WAIT..READ the Posting First
Our anthem man, MD, has chosen to sing the national anthem at an anti-abortion rally. I find it rather appropriate that someone so closely linked to this team has come out in support of this divisive, graphic campaign.

Link to article :
http://sports.yahoo....-192042820.html

W
hat caused such a stir, and so easily out of the OPs posting?

it is not the fact MD did this, and what he did or what he supports! so lets GET away from the argument whether you support MD's actions or not - or whether PRO CHOICE - or - PRO LIFE is the better choice.

It is...that the OP is trying to link MD as the quintessential ambassador for the Canucks, somebody who is so closely linked to the Canucks.
Although I could see the 'anthem singer' to some people as a integral part of the sports club.

However, the way OP has worded, it comes across as "FINALLY somebody has stepped out of the darkness and shed light to this decision on behalf of the Canucks" (the canucks being everyone in the organization, including the fans)

Nobody gives a sht about whether somebody is pro-life or pro-choice, we're Canadians - yes we have our own opinions - but when do we ever give a f...to correct somebody's stance on it or not.

What I do feel is an issue is the OP trying to purge on what he believes is the CORRECT view (whether it is or not) and presenting it as if this is universally shared by the Canucks nation (and even to some extent Vancouver)

So what we all need to do (as mostly everybody is already doing) is respect each other's view, and OP that is nice you have a stance on it, but don't try to universalize it to everyone else.

#84 Oh Whisht

Oh Whisht

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 268 posts
  • Joined: 27-April 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

Whether you agree with someone's thoughts / choices / decisions is irrelevant. Everyone in Canada has the freedom to stand up and speak (or sing) for what they believe in. Would you really want to live in a country where you could NOT do so?

There's no reason to lose respect for someone due to their beliefs. If we were all the same, well that would be pretty boring. It's not like he's using abortion videos to back up his singing at RA, so really, it is none of your business what he does in his free time.

That would also apply to David Booth's personal life. MYOB

#85 WL Canuck Fan

WL Canuck Fan

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:04 AM

an unborn child is not a person. It has no thoughts, emotions or free will. Also does sperm have any say when a guy "whacks off"? If an abortion is bad, I can't imagine what you think of guys who are killing thousands of potential ppl everyday.


By the same criteria, neither does a person with significant special needs, nor a person with advanced Alzheimers. The list could go on, but I think the point is made.

To naively assume that what i am saying is out of the realm of possibility is to ignore what is happening in the world today.

http://www.patientsr...and-background/

Here is another article
http://www.rnw.nl/en...sia-netherlands

Are there myths perpetrated? Sure. But look at what is allowed.

Myth 9: Parents can get rid of their handicapped child
This is not considered euthanasia, since very young, severely disabled children, or babies with hardly a chance of survival, cannot ask for an end to their lives, or give permission for it. But this form of merciful death does exist, and is referred to as 'life-ending action without the express wish of the patient'. Doctors and parents decide jointly not to begin medical treatment, or to discontinue one, if it is deemed pointless, or because the situation lacks any hope of improvement.



Is this abortion? No. But it very much has to do with the right to life. Take that away, and the slope gets slippery and hard to stop. Who determines who has the right to life?

Does a doctor who is just tired of the level of care someone needs, does he get to say that an elderly person, or a special needs person is in the way, and needs to be taken out of the way? Does he have that right pre-birth?

I know of a personal situation where someone I know was counselled by doctors to abort their as yer unborn child who the doctors assured them was severely deformed, and would live only minutes after birth. After much agony, they chose to have the baby, and she gave birth to a healthy baby boy. No special needs, no deformities, just a normal birth to a normal baby.

I can only assume this was not an isolated case.

Life begins at conception, and generally speaking, no one has the right to end that life.

PS

an unborn child is not a person. It has no thoughts, emotions or free will.


What a preposterous proposal. Not all births are the same, or rather, not all gestational periods are the same. Normal gestation is 38-42 weeks. Preterm is a baby born before 37 weeks. There is a 50% survival chance of a premature birth after 22-23 weeks.

So what is the criteria for being a "person"? You said "an unborn child is not a person". So, a preemie born at 28 weeks is a person, but an unborn child at 30 weeks is not?

I'm confused. Is it ok to to abort the unborn at 30 weeks, but not ok kill the 28 week preemie post birth? Or, maybe it is OK to end the life of the 28 week preemie? I'm just getting more confused.

Could you enlighten us all?

There is an article you might want to read
http://www.smh.com.a...0301-1u61l.html

The new argument is post birth abortion. It is coming on the heels of the partial birth abortion campaign.

Edited by WL Canuck Fan, 02 June 2012 - 11:32 AM.

Sig too big.

#86 Bitter Melon

Bitter Melon

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,270 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:13 AM

I am withdrawing my comment because I realize arguing over the internet on something as controversial as abortion is a frustrating and fruitless endeavor.

Edited by Jquiet, 02 June 2012 - 11:17 AM.

BO KNOWS


#87 Teen Icarus

Teen Icarus

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,009 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:39 PM

I realize that beliefs aren't beliefs if they are forced upon people - they're your beliefs if you choose them. However, it isn't a choice if you don't hear all sides of an issue, so I will present my veiws.

I consider abortion to be murder, and I consider murder to be wrong. In my opinion, life starts when the sperm and the egg join together. However, there is the argument of "Sure it's life, but it's not 'human' life". What is 'human life', then? Most likely once it can process thoughts itself. However, there is no definitive way of telling when the fetus can think, so I say err on the side of caution, and consider it human life from conception. Thus, killing it is murder.

Another argument is "What if the woman was raped, and is unable to support the baby?". There is no guarantee that someone will die if they have a baby. There is a guarantee that the baby will die if you have an abortion. To me, sacrificing one life so that another life might not die is a terrible idea. Would you throw a baby at somebody who is obliviously walking towards a cliff, just to stop them from walking? I wouldn't, and I doubt many people would - and abortion is a similar situation.

Any other questions on my point of view, and I'll do my best to answer them. Please don't ignore my argument just because you disagree - it's one of the biggest problems in the world today, people not paying attention when they disagree.
Spoiler

#88 Nosaj

Nosaj

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:03 PM

So you are sayin the unborn has no say at all? It would seem you are pushing your views on them. The differennce between them and me is that they can't speak for or defend theselves.

Do tumor cells have a say when they get removed?

Posted Image


#89 WL Canuck Fan

WL Canuck Fan

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,709 posts
  • Joined: 21-June 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:31 PM

Do tumor cells have a say when they get removed?


But, tumour cells never turn into human beings. A fertilized egg always does.
Sig too big.

#90 Nosaj

Nosaj

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,532 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:46 PM

But, tumour cells never turn into human beings. A fertilized egg always does.

So by that logic, anything with the potential to eventually become a human being is considered human?

Posted Image





Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.