Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
- - - - -

Which Leaf defenseman do we want ?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
220 replies to this topic

#121 RUPERTKBD

RUPERTKBD

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,709 posts
  • Joined: 23-July 04

Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:40 PM

Pretty tough call, I don't think such a good goalie with such a bad contract has ever been traded before so there's not much to compare to.


Not exactly the same situation, but to illustrate what a team desperate for goaltending will do, you can look at the situation in Philly.

The Flyers threw big money and big term at a goaltender only slightly younger than Luongo. In addition, I doubt there are many people who would look at the two goaltenders' body of work and decide that Bryzgalov is the superior player.

If a GM has a mandate to reach a certain goal, (In Homer's case, the Cup and in Burkie's case, the playoffs) there is every reason to expect them to do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Even in that entails taking on a big contract.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#122 theo5789

theo5789

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: 03-May 03

Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:52 PM

Being young and highly touted by Brian Burke in the past is hardly a ringing endorsement for any defenceman's abilities. Cleary you haven't watched this 22 year old "ex-untouchable" play more than a handful of games or you would be more worried about what he brings. Toronto fans aren't dumping on him unduly, his poor play over the last four seasons have made them and Burke very unhappy.

I would be ecstatic if MG could somehow pry the fifth overall out of TO in the Lu deal. If the deal were to include Schenn however, my joy would turn into despair.


If we based player's performances on fan perspective, the Sedins would have been dealt long ago. I agree that Schenn probably wasn't as good as Burke tried to make him to be, which put unrealistic expectations for Schenn to succeed. However, I feel like Schenn is just some confidence away from excelling. It is up to him to be a star dman in this league and being on the Canucks will give him the structure to build himself up. Our fanbase will be just as tough on him, but the difference is we are a successful team right now and he could go from a zero to a hero here instantly.

He is an NHL player, so right now, it just depends where in the top 6 he will fit in and where his own play will put him.
VanWhitecapsFC YouTube Page

Also mycanucksdotca on YouTube

#123 kmotamed

kmotamed

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,055 posts
  • Joined: 24-October 06

Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:59 PM

NONE of them, plz

#124 logic

logic

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,651 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:00 PM

you guys do realize that Gardiner is a future #1 D man and is worth A LOT more than Luongo


Wrong,
A elite goalie is the most hard too come by thing in hockey. Goalies take a lot of time too groom and develop(Schneider for example) A good goalie can get you in the playoff(2007) a good DMan cannot.

the_man_on_the_moon___paul_pogba_by_yupp


#125 Bodee

Bodee

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,257 posts
  • Joined: 26-May 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:02 PM

Jake Gardiner.


Too small............have we learned nothing?
Kevin.jpg

#126 theo5789

theo5789

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: 03-May 03

Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:14 PM

Too small............have we learned nothing?


Jake Gardiner - 6'2 184lbs
Nick Lidstrom - 6'2 190lbs
Erik Karlsson - 6'0 180lbs

I'm not comparing the quality of these dmen, but the fact that I don't see how you can just claim being too small as the factor to not want someone. Ehrhoff did just fine for us and he may have been someone that we lacked this year.
VanWhitecapsFC YouTube Page

Also mycanucksdotca on YouTube

#127 clynch

clynch

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 287 posts
  • Joined: 15-February 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:19 PM

While I'd like Gardiner I can't see Burke letting him go. I'd take Franson befause of the right hand shot. He has the size, could be a top 4 player to start until Tanev can fill the top 4 role, then would be an excellent 5 guy.

#128 ABurrows14

ABurrows14

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 418 posts
  • Joined: 25-May 12

Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:29 PM

setting yourselves up for a big disappointment


Really?

Toronto has no chance at Thomas or Vokoun now. So which veteran goalie is left that can guaranteed get them into the playoffs and save Burkey's behind?

Self preservation matters my friend...Burke could give a rats you know what, what the team looks like in 5 years if he's not around and out of a job...

They will be more desperate than you think, without Vokoun out there I think he has to give up the 5th pick, likely a swap.

I see Lou, and the 26th pick for Schenn and the 5th.

Toronto gets in the playoffs, an elite goalie for the next 4-5 years, they still have a first rounder and everyone knows you can still draft a heck of a player late in the first so Burkey will face less media pounding....they trade a dman which they have plenty of, and if they sign Schultz it won't even matter. So really they are giving up a potential top 4 dman (probably 3/4) for an elite goalie and swapping picks in a crapshoot...

I don't think that's a stretch to sell...

#129 Canuck Surfer

Canuck Surfer

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,989 posts
  • Joined: 27-December 10

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:06 PM

Look, Lou was good last year in the play offs. Until he melted down in game 3,4 and 6 in Boston. Or game 6 3 seasons ago in Chicago, game 7 in Chicago the year before that when he let in 7 goals in the series final.

Now, against Boston we also scored how many goals over 7 games? Lou did not loose us the series. But he contributed, because his play was a jolt to team confidence, as were his antics over tire pumping. If confidence was sky high because he stood on his head as we started loosing key players to injury, maybe we get that extra push from everybody. Its what elevates championship teams, and why Patrick Roy is in the HHOF.

As good, and Lou has been extremely good, as Lou has been over time, he has also not been the key guy we have needed him to be at the most critical times!

A fresh start, considering we have Schneider, could be good for everybody!

Luongo never carried the Canucks to the finals.... Sedins got us past sharks, Kesler was a beast vs the Preds, we almost lost to the Hawks in the 1st round and we lost to the Bruins in the finals, Luongo gets too much heat for the loss and not deserved but he didn't carry us there.


Bull cookies! You cannot evaluate one game, or even one series at a time!

Its not enough to help a crap team into the play off's. Its fair to expect the worlds highest paid player to be at his best when you need him most!

If Lou won us the series we finally knocked off Chicago, why was he pulled in favour of Schneider for game 6. He was on his way to another meltdown, we were up 3-0. When threatened with loosing his spot, only then he came up big. The team won that series!

What we need is Lou to become a clutch goalie, rather than a great regular season goalie. Or find out if Schneider has ice in his veins as it would appear?

1st Round, We wouldn't have beat the Hawks without him, there is no way. Luongo was the main reason we won that series.

2nd Round, He was good in that series, not great but good, he didn't hurt us at all, but he wasn't the reason, Kesler carried us.

3rd Round, I agree that the sedins got us by them but he was just as good as Niemi if not better and he was much better at times, while we were so much better than the Sharks in that series I think that if he wasn't as good as he was it would have been much, much closer and we could possibly have lost.

Finals: He choked in Boston but the Bottom line is we would have been swept without him, he carried us in all 3 of our wins, he was the reason we won those games.

We wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st Round without him, and Overall he was our MVP throughout the entire run.


Just piling another basically the same opinion below.

And the response is the same. See above, Lou can be good all he wants in sometimes. Lou was the highest paid player in the league, at $10 mill LY, and its fair to expect him to be the best player on the ice, for both teams. Why not in the biggest games?

Is Lou elite, sure! He has higher career save %'s (by far) than Brodeur, than Miller, than Roy. He has carried our team for long stretches, and therefore would also be an absolutely legitimate trade piece in asking for key players from a team like Toronto. And he would help them.

Look, a Stanley Cup would elevate Lou's career to a legitimate ballot for the hall of fame. Two, would make him a first ballot lock in. But he's asking out because his ego has been bruised.

I'm not confident Lou will rise to championship calibre on his own. He gave us a good game in Chicago in fear of loosing his spot. He's asking out now rather than taking on his challenger. Its the wrong mentality, and why he breaks down in big games. Its why has not taken us to a championship!

I'd rather give our goalie stick in the next finals to Schneider


Exactly, but more to that. Luongo was the only reason the Canucks weren't swept by the Bruins embarassingly. They only played well in Game 2, every other game Luongo was hung out to dry. That's 5 goals in the other 6 games scored by our forwards which is a joke, and if they weren't scoring they were letting Boston forwards walk in on goal on countless breakaways and odd-man rushes.

Luongo was our best player last playoffs and he was our 2nd best player this playoffs behind only Schneider, but at the end of the day Schneider couldn't win those big games that Luongo could.

MG will be stupid to trade Luongo in Schneider's favour and throw away the only playoff hero we've had for a long time, which is why I don't buy any of this Toronto-B.S. Luongo's not going anywhere, and if he is, this team isn't winning a cup for at least another 5 seasons before Schneider can gain the experience and playoff heroics that Luongo earned over the years.


This, below, is the best argument I have heard for Schenn.

I'd rather have Schenn, who shoots right, has really good size, and lays down a tremendous amount of hits, and has had to endure his entire youth career in a horrible hockey franchise. He fits what we are looking for a lot more than Gardiner. He is 6'2 230 lbs, almost led the league in hitting. I think his potential worth is a lot more than Gardiner as well. He was the 5th overall pick overall. It's a lot easier to put up points on a crappy team then it is to be a 22 year old league standout as a shutdown d on a crappy team. Schenn is easily the better player for us to want ... IMNSHO. :)



#130 sulihpoeht

sulihpoeht

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:38 PM

1st Round, We wouldn't have beat the Hawks without him, there is no way. Luongo was the main reason we won that series.

2nd Round, He was good in that series, not great but good, he didn't hurt us at all, but he wasn't the reason, Kesler carried us.

3rd Round, I agree that the sedins got us by them but he was just as good as Niemi if not better and he was much better at times, while we were so much better than the Sharks in that series I think that if he wasn't as good as he was it would have been much, much closer and we could possibly have lost.

Finals: He choked in Boston but the Bottom line is we would have been swept without him, he carried us in all 3 of our wins, he was the reason we won those games.

We wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st Round without him, and Overall he was our MVP throughout the entire run.


You really think we didn't have the depth to beat the Hawks or any team for that matter, without Luongo? I mean, Luongo is good but our team around him was so good, I don't think he was the only reason we won...He was clutch in game 7, but where did he show up in games 4 and 5? I'm not bashing Lu or anything, but "there is no way we would have won" doesn't seem right, especially when you don't really back it up with anything. Lu, however, in the second series I thought played well in comparison to the first. But who knows, maybe it was just me...
GO CANUCKS GO!

#131 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,630 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:41 PM

You really think we didn't have the depth to beat the Hawks or any team for that matter, without Luongo? I mean, Luongo is good but our team around him was so good, I don't think he was the only reason we won...He was clutch in game 7, but where did he show up in games 4 and 5? I'm not bashing Lu or anything, but "there is no way we would have won" doesn't seem right, especially when you don't really back it up with anything. Lu, however, in the second series I thought played well in comparison to the first. But who knows, maybe it was just me...


Yeah well Luongo was our best, he was our best player in all of our wins (arguably) but in games 1 and 7 especially he was our best, I doubt we would have won that series without him.

And I team was terrible in those games too, like in game 5. they way they left Hossa just walk right down mainstreet was brutal, it just deflated us.

I doubt that Schneids or anyone else would have won us games 4 & 5, we were brutal.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 04 June 2012 - 05:42 PM.

zackass.png


#132 sulihpoeht

sulihpoeht

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:48 PM

Yeah well Luongo was our best, he was our best player in all of our wins (arguably) but in games 1 and 7 especially he was our best, I doubt we would have won that series without him.

And I team was terrible in those games too, like in game 5. they way they left Hossa just walk right down mainstreet was brutal, it just deflated us.

I doubt that Schneids or anyone else would have won us games 4 & 5, we were brutal.

Who knows? Schneider played pretty well in game 6 despite the poor stick handling which led to the loss. Luongo just typically does not play well in the United Center, and even though the team may not have been all that good around him, I'm pretty sure there were some soft ones too (forgive my memory I can't really recall many of the goals against so I can't provide exact plays).
GO CANUCKS GO!

#133 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,630 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:56 PM

Who knows? Schneider played pretty well in game 6 despite the poor stick handling which led to the loss. Luongo just typically does not play well in the United Center, and even though the team may not have been all that good around him, I'm pretty sure there were some soft ones too (forgive my memory I can't really recall many of the goals against so I can't provide exact plays).


Ya but that's where the experiance of Lu comes in handy, he wouldnt have let those in.

And I would disagree, he has his share of bad games but he plays well alot there too, like in the Reg season last year (2010-11) when he played amazing and we got a 2-0 Shutout win (might have been 3-0), then this past year when we played them and they won in OT Lu was amazing, then there's the playoffs.

I would say it's 50/50, sometimes he plays great there sometimes he doesn't.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 04 June 2012 - 05:56 PM.

zackass.png


#134 sulihpoeht

sulihpoeht

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

Ya but that's where the experiance of Lu comes in handy, he wouldnt have let those in.

And I would disagree, he has his share of bad games but he plays well alot there too, like in the Reg season last year (2010-11) when he played amazing and we got a 2-0 Shutout win (might have been 3-0), then this past year when we played them and they won in OT Lu was amazing, then there's the playoffs.

I would say it's 50/50, sometimes he plays great there sometimes he doesn't.

Well if you think about it a goaltender that has a 50/50 chance of pulling off a good game in a building might not be so safe to play
GO CANUCKS GO!

#135 Tortorella's Rant

Tortorella's Rant

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,741 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 12

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

Does it matter? Luongo wont go there
Posted Image

#136 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,630 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

Well if you think about it a goaltender that has a 50/50 chance of pulling off a good game in a building might not be so safe to play


No I mean throughout his career, when it's in the Playoffs it's all about momentum going back and forth, when he wins 3 straight games, get's a Shutout and is the main reason we won, he should start.

zackass.png


#137 nuckin_futz

nuckin_futz

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,539 posts
  • Joined: 09-January 12

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:13 PM

I'd rather have Borje Salming than any of the current Leaf defencemen. And yes I do realize he's 61.

#138 Bill F-ing Murray

Bill F-ing Murray

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 369 posts
  • Joined: 25-May 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:22 PM

Gardiner. If we get Gardiner, we're pretty much guaranteed Schultz.

Please elaborate on how this would guarantee anything... a trade for a d man would show Schultz that competition for a roster spot just got a little harder and don't forget he is unproven at the NHL level...

My memory is a bit rusty could you remind me of when a trade lured a ufa (proven or not) to sign with a team.. maybe a link but if not at least enough information for me to run with

Posted Image


“Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.

So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,”

I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me.I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.”

Ricky Gervais


#139 sulihpoeht

sulihpoeht

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:25 PM

No I mean throughout his career, when it's in the Playoffs it's all about momentum going back and forth, when he wins 3 straight games, get's a Shutout and is the main reason we won, he should start.

Yes, he should start. I'm not saying its AVs fault for playing him or anything, because playing him is the right decision. Its just that Luongo's inconsistency sometimes doesn't give us a good picture on whether he played poorly, the team around him played poorly, or a combination of both. I'm just saying that I think the team around him could have been good enough to beat Chicago in round one even if he wasn't between the pipes.
GO CANUCKS GO!

#140 riffraff

riffraff

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,291 posts
  • Joined: 10-April 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:14 PM

Jake Gardiner - 6'2 184lbs
Nick Lidstrom - 6'2 190lbs
Erik Karlsson - 6'0 180lbs

I'm not comparing the quality of these dmen, but the fact that I don't see how you can just claim being too small as the factor to not want someone. Ehrhoff did just fine for us and he may have been someone that we lacked this year.


Until he was injured and useless in the llatiffs
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#141 dura_mater

dura_mater

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,827 posts
  • Joined: 18-December 08

Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:15 PM

you guys do realize that Gardiner is a future #1 D man and is worth A LOT more than Luongo


You do realise that Luongo is a number 1 goaltender and has been a top 5 goaltender over the past 10 years.

Apollo is not a real person but a post-bot built by the Aquilini's to create hype.


#142 riffraff

riffraff

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,291 posts
  • Joined: 10-April 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:19 PM

I'd rather have Borje Salming than any of the current Leaf defencemen. And yes I do realize he's 61.


SalmIng and Snepts and we're good
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#143 Jaku

Jaku

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,286 posts
  • Joined: 21-February 08

Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

Matt dumba or Morgan Reilly with the 5th overall pick


R.I.P- #37 Rick Rypien, #28 Luc Bourdon, #38 Pavol Demitra Forever Canucks.
rsz_sam_reinhart.jpg

medium.pngColorado Avalanche GM in CDC STHS Sim League


#144 needtogetswole

needtogetswole

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 645 posts
  • Joined: 02-April 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:49 PM

You do realise that Luongo is a number 1 goaltender and has been a top 5 goaltender over the past 10 years.


+ elite goalies don't come as often as defenders and forwards... some people just don't get it.

#145 Beeznuts84

Beeznuts84

    K-Wing Regular

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Joined: 31-October 11

Posted 04 June 2012 - 08:06 PM

Gardner for sure over Schenn!
From what I've seen of this kid, he's got some real upside to his game.
He's gonna put up some good #'s next season IMO.

#146 Pablo

Pablo

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 966 posts
  • Joined: 06-July 09

Posted 04 June 2012 - 08:22 PM

Hedmen

#147 Glov10

Glov10

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 281 posts
  • Joined: 13-February 09

Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:29 PM

People who say Schenn sucks are morons. Kid is 22 years old, one year ago he was untouchable. He had an inconsistent year and Toronto fans are all over him trying to dump him on the first team possible(Sound Familiar?). If we can get Schenn and a first for Lu I'd be doing cartwheels


^^This is exactly it. I don't see why so many people are raggin on Schenn so much after ONE poor season. Keep in mind who was coaching, what style of game he had them playing and what the surrounding cast was like. I would be happy to get him in a package for Lu...but in all honesty Gillis knows exactly who he wants from TO, will be interesting to see if they are willing to part with what he wants.

#148 sockeye

sockeye

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 810 posts
  • Joined: 16-August 08

Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:54 PM

Being from Salmon Arm, my obvious choice is Cody Franson in some sort of package.
A Canucks fan since 1968 (before the NHL)

#149 Ghostsof1915

Ghostsof1915

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,297 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:16 PM

Or maybe Connolly and Victor Hedman for Raymond, Ballard, and Luongo and our 1st? :bigblush:
GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

Posted Image

#150 john bell

john bell

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 101 posts
  • Joined: 14-April 07

Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:51 PM

I can't see Brian Burke trading the likes of Schenn, Gardiner, or even Franson for luongo. Likely We would have to take Armstrong or Lombardi plus someone else. Matt Frattin might do well here. I bet Burke would like Zach Kassian in a bigger package to get say Schenn. I think Schenn will be a Player.
I doubt Gillis wants to move Kassian.

Edited by john bell, 04 June 2012 - 11:19 PM.





Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.