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The Abortion/Pro-Life Thread (Arguments only - no personal attacks!)

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#1 Matthew Lombardi 18

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

I understand this topic is extremely controversial, yet I'm willing to give it a chance for a discussion on it.

Although I do have predefined opinions on the matter, I am willing to listen and explore any arguments and I want others to contribute too. I don't have a professional opinion on the matter. I will NOT be using any personal attacks or making any snide remarks and I strongly discourage that behaviour for all others. All comments should be DIRECTLY related to the debate regarding abortion and the pro-life stance.

It is my opinion that I share with some people that women should have the right to make their own decisions without fear of outside pressure.

I believe they are the initial primary caregivers for the baby and most women (even those who commit to abortion eventually) will identify the fetus as their own. This would lead to women being extraordinarily careful about what happens to their fetus. Of course there will be exceptions, much like how some mothers abuse (in any sort of way) their real baby/children. It is an assumption but a fairly careful one. I've rarely heard (though again, this is an unprofessional opinion) women being 'happy' about aborting their own baby. It is a process that leads to physical and mental grieving.

Outlawing abortion would only lead to women finding (illegal) ways to harm the fetus, which could also harm themselves too. It does not mean all abortion permanently stops. It is better to legalize and CONTROL abortion rather than the other way around.

Fetuses do not necessarily end up being babies. Many end up as a miscarriage. More statistics are needed to find out the success/failure rates of fetuses, in order to come up with a more informed decision.

I think later-stage fetuses are a high chance at succeeding and I can compromise on the idea of disallowing the abortion for these kinds of fetuses, but of course, this does not stop women from artificially stopping it.

As a side comment and I don't mean to include this in my argument, I personally know/knew of a woman who lived far away from me who had a 'boyfriend' who disallowed her rightful personal freedoms as well as forcing her to get pregnant, disallowing her from aborting it. Her relationship with him was based on threat/coercion/blackmail. I know that for a fact. The guy is a known gangster. It is an extreme example but she is the inspiration for why I am taking a stance on this particular issue. I am not including this context as part of my argument, only a very personal explanation as to why.

Edited by Matthew Lombardi 18, 05 June 2012 - 06:07 PM.

Eklund said:

So we are officially in a bit of a silly season, and in general I stay away from the completely crazy rumors that persist on the internet, or in the case of the Leafs having interest in Nabokov or Turco I will occasionally debunk them...however, I have been getting inundated with emails, PMs, and questions on twitter regarding a few rumors that are out there...so here goes.. I will address the rumors and follow with what I have or haven't heard...If you all like this format, maybe Wacky Wednesdays could be a regular feature. I wouldn't do it more than once a week, because I am too busy talking to actual sources and attempting to provide you all with as much unique information as possible.

Too busy talking to actual sources? lolwut

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#2 BraveHart

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

Unrelated to the article, but I applaud you for trying to start a thread on a very VERY touchy subject.

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#3 Buggernut

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:38 PM

Yawn!

#4 Harbinger

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 06:46 PM

I am going to put this out there. When eating libby zoodles do you scream out "I just had a hippopotamus for lunch" when ever you eat any of the animal shaped noodles?

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#5 AbbyNucksFan

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:03 PM


Edited by AbbyNucksFan, 05 June 2012 - 07:03 PM.

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#6 Jägermeister

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:31 PM

I am going to put this out there. When eating libby zoodles do you scream out "I just had a hippopotamus for lunch" when ever you eat any of the animal shaped noodles?


No, I only scream that when I eat one of the Hippo shaped ones.
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#7 Guest_BuckFoston_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:33 PM

I always thought a woman had the right to chose in the case of rape. However, if you are old enough to work and support a child, I'm a little more reserved. If all of a sudden my partner got pregnant even though we weren't planning, abortion would not be an option at our age. We are in our late 20ies, both working, both capable of supporting a child (and even if we weren't, we would take measures to make sure we were) so there really is no excuse for us not to keep the baby. So I guess I'm pro-responsibility.

I understand that sometimes mistakes happen no matter how cautious you think you are, but then you turn on the tv and see that 16 and pregnant trash and you start to wonder if its a loss either way. If they go through with the pregnancy, they turn into awful mothers because let's face it, kids cannot parent kids. If they were all choosing abortions instead, I'd still be furious because they aren't held to any responsibility whatsoever. I used to know this girl in college that took Plan B as her main form of birth control and still managed to have 3 abortions in a couple of years. And all because she "didn't like the feel" of condoms and didn't want to be bothered with female birth control. Makes my stomach churn just thinking about it.

Edited by BuckFoston, 05 June 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#8 Tokasmoka

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:40 PM

I am pro choice but I am not going to argue anyone about it, just my view on this subject. What your view on abortion is really not my concern.

#9 gurn

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

My problem with the whole damm subject is:
If she gets pregnant and wants to keep the baby I and I don't. I pay
IF she doesn't want the baby and I do she can abort and I've got no say.
Were is the eqaulity.

Somewhat snide comment to all the pro lifers-------how many kids have you adopted?
I don't know that I could personally choose to abort a fetus but am willing to let others decide for theselves.

#10 Monty

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:01 PM

I'm probably too much of a coward and don't want to invite any negativity into this subject, so I never argue or state my preference when it comes up in conversation. Not a good stance to take, as nothing in the history of mankind gets sorted out if people don't present their opinions and argue said opinions.

That being said, I'm pro life. I feel as though that if you are old enough to make the decision to have sex, then you are making a choice to deal with the benefits and consequences of those actions.

I know some people will say, "Well, 15 year olds shouldn't be raising kids." Well, you are absolutely correct, they shouldn't. But children have to learn that in every decision you make in life, you have to be prepared to deal with the aftermath. If you want to steal money from your parents so you can buy something, good for you. But be prepared to deal with the chance that your parents might find out that you stole from them.

I made a huge mistake in university, one that almost got me kicked out. It was the bonehead move, one that I thought wasn't a big deal. If it wasn't for my track record in school, they probably wouldn't have been so lenient. However, when I was going into my hearing, I told them that there was no excuse for my actions. I apologized, but left it with, "I respect all of you and should you decide that the best course of action is to suspend my education, I understand. My actions are my own and I have to live with the consequences."

I live that in every aspect of my life, and the same goes with unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

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#11 pimpcurtly

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

It's up to the individual and it's none of my business.
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#12 GodzillaDeuce

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

<--- pro choice

humans need to be culled

well I'm sorry that gd is soo perfect


#13 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:24 PM

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It doesn't have to be about abortion. It has to be about population control.

Kill the old and the sick. Cheers.


TOML
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#14 Navyblue

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 05:03 PM

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It doesn't have to be about abortion. It has to be about population control.

Kill the old and the sick. Cheers.


TOML


Why not just put a limit on how many kids people can have like china?

As far as abortion goes, I believe it is wrong. Even in rape. Did that life choose to be born? No. Give it up for adoption, there are many people who can't have kids and wish they could.

But, it's the woman's choice and should be her right. If she wants to abort, she should be able to.

Edited by Navyblue, 08 June 2012 - 05:04 PM.

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#15 Lychees

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:57 AM

For the most nowadays you can chalk up abortion to either being forced upon a person by a spouse, parent or someone significant in their life, or their idiotic teens. My cousin works in an abortion clinic and for the most part she says it's teenagers who just want a problem to go away.

That being said, there are always foster homes and adoption agencies if someone doesn't have the means to take care of a kid nowadays,

#16 gmen81

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

My wife(Gf at time) had an abortion. We just weren't ready to raise a child at that time. I was between jobs at the time, so I had no idea what my future was going to be like and we were living in her parents basement.

If I had known what our future would be like, I would have suggested keeping the baby. We have a 2 year old now, own our own home and both have good paying jobs. Just at the time we didn't want to raise a baby in an uncertain environment.

Funfacts about the abortion day

-it was my wifes birthday
-I went across the street during the abortion to an electronics store to watch Canada lose to Russia in the QF of the 2006 Olympics
-we both ran into Markus Naslund walking down the street
-both our parents still don't know(at least I think they don't)
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#17 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:55 AM

My wife(Gf at time) had an abortion. We just weren't ready to raise a child at that time. I was between jobs at the time, so I had no idea what my future was going to be like and we were living in her parents basement.

If I had known what our future would be like, I would have suggested keeping the baby. We have a 2 year old now, own our own home and both have good paying jobs. Just at the time we didn't want to raise a baby in an uncertain environment.

Funfacts about the abortion day

-it was my wifes birthday
-I went across the street during the abortion to an electronics store to watch Canada lose to Russia in the QF of the 2006 Olympics
-we both ran into Markus Naslund walking down the street
-both our parents still don't know(at least I think they don't)


The magical thing about abortions is that your life could have been quite different had you kept the baby.

Abortions for everyone!

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#18 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:27 AM

For the most nowadays you can chalk up abortion to either being forced upon a person by a spouse, parent or someone significant in their life, or their idiotic teens. My cousin works in an abortion clinic and for the most part she says it's teenagers who just want a problem to go away.

That being said, there are always foster homes and adoption agencies if someone doesn't have the means to take care of a kid nowadays,


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Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 09 June 2012 - 01:19 PM.

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#19 Jaimito

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:17 PM

personal choice. stay out of other people's business.
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#20 Aleksandr Pistoletov

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

I've seen a few of our children moving in ultrasounds well before they were technically viable (let's say 12-19 weeks), they looked human enough to care. Hard to personally be okay with knowing people are wilfully ending the lives of another human, even if women should have the right to decide what goes and stays in their own body. I'm pro-choice but not without some serious criticism of the average abortion-engaging female who aborts a fetus to avoid some aspect of responsibility. I have no respect for them and they should socially be treated as the trash they are -- while allowing abortion, of course.

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#21 iinteenseee

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 01:32 AM

To me, I consider it more of a case-by-case type of thing.. I guess you could say I'm pro-choice, but it really depends on the situation. 15 year old teeny boppers have absolutely no damn business in being a parent, and everything about teenage pregnancy and those stupid reality TV shows just makes me want to throw up. Adult women who get multiple abortions in a year because they're too immature and irresponsible to use prevention properly is definitely not okay. Generally speaking, I don't think of myself as some self pretentious person who has the right to judge/infringe upon someone else's life choices.. lol.

I do believe that every child in this world has the prerogative to grow up in a loving environment with a nurturing family, rather than being neglected or treated like crap (happens more than you think). I'm not saying that all people who have abortions would treat their kids like crap, but the fact that they don't have the intention of being a parent in the first place shows that the odds definitely aren't in their favour. Growing up in a poor childhood environment is 100% detrimental to the rest of a child's life, and that's not even an exaggeration.

Edited by iinteenseee, 10 June 2012 - 01:34 AM.


#22 Hyzer

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:01 AM

Pro-choice. Do whatever you want in your personal life and I'll do whatever I want. Everyone's happy.

#23 Thrill-House

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:38 AM

These threads are pointless.

Neither side will ever come to any sort of agreement.
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#24 German_Canucks_Supporter

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:40 AM

As long as it's not about any religious bias, the discussion is a valid one. I think that abortions should be legal early on in the pregnancy, but there needs to be a line somewhere after which you are not allowed to anymore. The point is, if you make a law prohibiting abortions, it won't make abortions stop. They will just be carried out in some back alley. I haven never seen any of the Evangelical hypocrites talk about that fact.

Nobody likes abortions, but sometimes it's better to do it. But if you're against abortions, you better make sure that the born babies get a fair chance in life and you better be against the death penalty. If killing unborn cell accumulations is so wrong, why do they cheer when grown men get killed?

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