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Why Mason Raymond Should Be Qualified


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#1 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:49 AM

As we may see by the recent David Jones signing, free agents will be overpriced.
(4 years @ 4 million for Jones who was a 37 point player last season).

- Obviously the Av's didn't think there were better 4 million $ options in free agency

- Jones would have finished the year with 42 points, whereas Raymond was on pace for 30 points.

- Raymonds career average 39 points/season, Jones has averaged 40 points a season.

- Both played about 15 minutes/game last year (2nd/3rd line tweeners). Jones got more PP time.

- We saw last year that the price of a Marco Sturm was 2.2 million....

- Raymond at 2.5 is likely lower risk/higher reward than other free agent signings

- We could hope that a player like Jensen or Sweatt could take over for Raymond but at the very best they would likely emulate Raymond during this past season.

- I know CDC isn't the biggest fan of Raymond but if the going price of a 2nd/3rd liner comparable to Raymond is 4 million, I would gladly qualify Raymond at 2.55

- Unless MG is actively pursuing another option via trade he is the best player available at the moment.

Edited by Kack Zassian, 09 June 2012 - 10:03 AM.


#2 Scoobydooby

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:57 AM

i would still rather see jensen or sweatt in our roster.. I honestly just want to see someone else get a shot. raymond and all the top line minutes he gets for his calibre of play is really starting to piss me off.. give our youth a chance I say,. at least it will give them some time to grow in the majors where playing raymond will do nothing for him as I dont think there is any further upside to his game and havent seen anything from him on the ice that should suggest otherwise.

Edited by Scoobydooby, 09 June 2012 - 09:58 AM.

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#3 winthecup

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:59 AM

As we may see by the recent David Jones signing, free agents will be overpriced.
(4 years @ 4 million for Jones who was a 37 point player last season).

- Obviously the Av's didn't think there were better 4 million $ options in free agency

- Jones would have finished the year with 42 points, whereas Raymond was on pace for 30 points.

- Raymonds career average 39 points/season, Jones has averaged 40 points a season.

- Both played about 15 minutes/game last year (2nd/3rd line tweeners). Jones got more PP time.

- We saw last year that the price of a Marco Sturm was 2.2 million....

- Raymond at 2.5 is likely lower risk/higher reward than other free agent signings

- We could hope that a player like Jensen or Sweatt could take over for Raymond but at the very best they would likely emulate Raymond during this past season.

- I know CDC isn't the biggest fan of Raymond but if the going price of a 2nd/3rd liner comparable to Raymond is 4 million, I would gladly qualify Raymond at 2.55

I would see if there are any teams interested in acquiring Raymond first. The Canucks should look at getting bigger and stronger. The Canucks already have enough speed in Hansen, Higgins, Booth and kesler.

#4 Line Juggler

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:03 AM

It's a tough call with Raymond. It's hard to tell what kind of year he would have in a Canucks uniform. Gillis may sign him for 1 year at a low salary and ship him out at the trade deadline if they decide they don't want to resign him to a longer term deal after next season.

Edited by Line Juggler, 09 June 2012 - 10:03 AM.

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#5 Hafizzle

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:05 AM

Absolutely not. This team needs to improve up front so why would we want a less than mediocre player like Raymond back? The only thing he can be counted on for is to fall down and give up the puck. If he was just a bad player that's one thing, but last year he was actually bringing down his whole line. Why would we want him again?

#6 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:07 AM

i would still rather see jensen or sweatt in our roster.. I honestly just want to see someone else get a shot. raymond and all the top line minutes he gets for his calibre of play is really starting to piss me off.. give our youth a chance I say,. at least it will give them some time to grow in the majors where playing raymond will do nothing for him as I dont think there is any further upside to his game and havent seen anything from him on the ice that should suggest otherwise.


I wouldn't exactly say he got top line minutes by any means...

I mean least year AV trusted Billy Sweatt with 5 minutes a game (mind you in 2 games)...do you see him being able to successfully triple his ice time and be productive over the course of a full season?

What if you let Raymond walk and its evident that Jensen needs another year in the OHL and Sweatt just isn't a good replacement you are thin on options.

Why not bring Raymond back (since he would be cheap, and relatively productive) and let someone try to make him expendable?

#7 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:07 AM

Absolutely not. This team needs to improve up front so why would we want a less than mediocre player like Raymond back? The only thing he can be counted on for is to fall down and give up the puck. If he was just a bad player that's one thing, but last year he was actually bringing down his whole line. Why would we want him again?


Did you read the OP?

#8 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:09 AM

It's a tough call with Raymond. It's hard to tell what kind of year he would have in a Canucks uniform. Gillis may sign him for 1 year at a low salary and ship him out at the trade deadline if they decide they don't want to resign him to a longer term deal after next season.


I think he gets qualified at 1 year and the ball is essentially in his court.

Theres essentially 3 things that can happen
- Raymond can make himself expendable
- Someone else can make Raymond expendable
- Raymond could be a decent 2nd/3rd liner who earns a spot on the team.

If you don't qualify Raymond you have to hope someone is ready to take his spot (not likely at this point) or hope that an overpaid free agent can produce similar results.

#9 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:11 AM

The way I see it, Raymond has no spot on this team. He is actually meant to be a top 6 forward, 2nd line player at best. If we put him on the third, there are other wingers that are more capable, such as Hansen, Higgins, Jensen, and Burrows. We have too much depth on this team, and Raymond is the odd one out. If we needed a depth player with no size, just speed and PK ability, then i would love to sign Raymond.
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#10 Bananas

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

REALLY not a Raymond fan...
Hey CDC! Remember this!?

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#11 dorrcoq

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

The trouble with Raymond is he is so eminently UNQUALIFIED.

#12 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:15 AM

Sign and trade, or move him on draft day. Doesn't fit here. Maybe Phoenix will pick him up. They're good a reclamation projects.
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#13 CaNuCkSLoUiE23

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:16 AM

I think our team needs a little shake-up. Like MG said, he wants to get younger and bigger, and I think Jensen can fill one of those voids.

Edited by CaNuCkSLoUiE23, 09 June 2012 - 10:16 AM.


#14 Hafizzle

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:17 AM

Did you read the OP?


I did and those stats mean nothing. As Jeff Tambo just said, Raymond simply doesn't have a role on this team. With his skill set, he needs to be a top 6 forward but unfortunately he's not good enough to be in the top 6 and if we use him on the second line, he brings the line down. There are also better players suited for the 3rd line so again he has no spot. Finally, he is not even remotely suited for the grind of the 4th line so he really doesn't have a spot.

It's a shame we don't have a spot for someone who only kills penalties because that is the only thing he is decent at. But seriously, bringing him back just lowers the skill level of this team and that's just an idiotic thing to do if you want to build a championship team.

Edited by Hafizzle, 09 June 2012 - 10:18 AM.


#15 pimpcurtly

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

ehhh
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#16 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

Can't stand the guy - he's a cancer for whoever he plays with. He doesn't know what pass is...hell circle the net, maybe go for another lap then shoot at the goalies chest. Then he'll go to the bench with a cocky look like he did all he could.

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#17 Scoobydooby

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

I wouldn't exactly say he got top line minutes by any means...

I mean least year AV trusted Billy Sweatt with 5 minutes a game (mind you in 2 games)...do you see him being able to successfully triple his ice time and be productive over the course of a full season?

What if you let Raymond walk and its evident that Jensen needs another year in the OHL and Sweatt just isn't a good replacement you are thin on options.

Why not bring Raymond back (since he would be cheap, and relatively productive) and let someone try to make him expendable?


I would be willing to take that risk.. also, as others have said and are correct about is that there isnt a place for raymond and his limited skillset on this team anymore.

bottom line for me on my personal opinion of Raymond is that Im just over with his contributions to this team and want to see him replaced for someone, ANYone.

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#18 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:30 AM

The way I see it, Raymond has no spot on this team. He is actually meant to be a top 6 forward, 2nd line player at best. If we put him on the third, there are other wingers that are more capable, such as Hansen, Higgins, Jensen, and Burrows. We have too much depth on this team, and Raymond is the odd one out. If we needed a depth player with no size, just speed and PK ability, then i would love to sign Raymond.


At this point Burrows is on the 1st line, Higgins is on the 2nd line so that leaves Hansen and _____ as your 3rd line wingers.

Jensen is a huge dark horse, and going into a season hoping Jensen can crack the big club is a big risk (especially when they can just slide his ELC for a few more years).

Kassian, again same thing as Jensen. He could be ready, but just like everyone else (including Raymond) he is going to have to compete for that spot.

Given the current roster, unless MG brings in another established fulltime winger to take Raymonds spot (or play next to Kes) theres an open spot on the 3rd line and Raymonds got better qualifications unless someone can take his roster spot.

If Jensen/Kassian can win his spot, its theirs. Raymond can be moved/waived/whatever.
At this point there is a hole on the roster, and Raymond is more proven than our rookies, and cheaper than the free agency market.

#19 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:33 AM

I did and those stats mean nothing. As Jeff Tambo just said, Raymond simply doesn't have a role on this team. With his skill set, he needs to be a top 6 forward but unfortunately he's not good enough to be in the top 6 and if we use him on the second line, he brings the line down. There are also better players suited for the 3rd line so again he has no spot. Finally, he is not even remotely suited for the grind of the 4th line so he really doesn't have a spot.

It's a shame we don't have a spot for someone who only kills penalties because that is the only thing he is decent at. But seriously, bringing him back just lowers the skill level of this team and that's just an idiotic thing to do if you want to build a championship team.


So where do we go for a replacement?

The free agent route will lead to players like Raymond getting 4 million a year and we don't exactly have anyone in the system who is a lock for that spot.

He doesn't lower the skill of the team, because at this point there is no suitable replacement (unless one of our rookies proves otherwise).

If someone can take his spot on the team, its theirs. However at this point and time, he is mroe proven than any of our rookies and a cheaper option than free agency.

#20 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

I would be willing to take that risk.. also, as others have said and are correct about is that there isnt a place for raymond and his limited skillset on this team anymore.

bottom line for me on my personal opinion of Raymond is that Im just over with his contributions to this team and want to see him replaced for someone, ANYone.


And i think until that someone is determined there is no risk associated with keeping him.

Its better to have an average Raymond than a Niklas Jensen who isn't NHL ready.
The same way it would be better to have an NHL ready Jensen than an average Raymond.

Again, low risk, high reward and at the very least can be looked at as a contingency plan.

#21 Ron Swansons Moustache

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:53 AM

The problem with Raymond too is the last memory of him is trying to throw a check on Kopitar (who's 40 pounds heavier) when he could have just skated and got the puck :picard:

I wish Raymond the best and hope he has a rebound year but he doesnt have a spot on this team anymore.
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#22 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:57 AM

The problem with Raymond too is the last memory of him is trying to throw a check on Kopitar (who's 40 pounds heavier) when he could have just skated and got the puck :picard:

I wish Raymond the best and hope he has a rebound year but he doesnt have a spot on this team anymore.


I hope we can improve on Raymond as well... after the David Jones signing its pretty evident free agency won't offer any reasonable solutions and I wouldn't consider any of our prospects locks for full time duty there.

I think our only hope is the trade route, so I hope MG hasn't stopped talking to Nieuwendyk about acquiring Steve Ott.

#23 keslerian one

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

So just because another team overpaid their player, we should do the same? Raymond had great potential, but not sure if he's worth a spot on the roster anymore. Our team is very different from the Avs...

#24 canucks.bradley

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:11 AM

how do you qualify and unqualified player...
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#25 CoreyPerry

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

why couldnt he bury that wraparound, WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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#26 Trelane42

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:20 AM

After seeing that Jones signing I'm pretty much resigned to MG not acquiring any notable UFAs this summer. He might do a moneypuck thing out of left field but it won't be a popular name.

Hoping the Luango deal brings in at least one roster player and a prospect. Had enough of Raymond and would rather live with some rookie's mistakes.

#27 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:22 AM

So just because another team overpaid their player, we should do the same? Raymond had great potential, but not sure if he's worth a spot on the roster anymore. Our team is very different from the Avs...


Im saying that replacing Raymond via free agency isn't worth it.
Jones is a very comparable player to Raymond and got 4 million dollars/4 years.

Unless Kassian/Jensen/Sweatt can prove otherwise, we don't exactly have anyone who is a lock for his roster spot at the moment.

So signing Raymond would essentially be a low-risk safety net, unless MG makes a trade.

#28 Kulikov

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:22 AM

I have to believe Gillis is going to get us a true top 6 winger which makes this convo pointless, but even if that doesn't happen we already have a logjam of 3rd liners... no reason to qualify the absolute worst of them. We have better options from within, and if Gillis can't make a move to upgrade raymond we made a huge mistake bringing him here.

#29 Kack Zassian

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

After seeing that Jones signing I'm pretty much resigned to MG not acquiring any notable UFAs this summer. He might do a moneypuck thing out of left field but it won't be a popular name.

Hoping the Luango deal brings in at least one roster player and a prospect. Had enough of Raymond and would rather live with some rookie's mistakes.


Yeah, I am wondering if MG is going to try to move his rights, or package him for an upgrade/bring in a winger by trade.

I think Raymond at 2.55 is better than 90% of free agents at 2.55 this year.

#30 goblix

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:24 AM

I'm willing to wash the last year away due to the injury, the year before he wasnt bad he was mediocre, and the year before that he was great.
I'm willing to send him 2m his way for 1 year, we saw a line of Grabner, Kesler, and Raymond work out because of their speed and scoring ability. Booth/Kesler/Raymond line should have a similar result. I'd be hoping for that kind of result once more.
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