LostViking Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 MG will work within our current salary structure, and some players in the league will abide by it. Certainly, our pool of potential players is smaller than teams who are willing to pay more, but there is still a UFA pool for us to draw on. Also remember that if the cap is around $69m, that means each player can make, on average, $3m. Think about that for a second, $3m for a completely average player, it stands to reason that any top 6 guy (even a fringe guy) should cost more than $3m. Imagine that, we still managed to grab Higgins at $1.9m last year, which would almost qualify as 4th line money right now. So basically, MG is able to get good deals from time to time, and will likely try his best to do so again this offseason. In addition, if we do have to pay $4m or so for a player who can play top 6 minutes, that actually would be completely manageable under such a large cap. I would offer Raymond the same deal that Higgins got, internally I don't think anyone in the dressing room believes Raymond is worth more than Higgins. Externally, Raymond is worth more than that, but he is still our property so we can dictate things fairly easily. Once signed, I think he would be more attractive as a trade option since his salary would be that of a low paid 3rd liner, even Raymond could end up being a good deal for that price on a team desperate for forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Line Juggler Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The Devils picked up their 4th line on waivers and call ups during the season. Let's get a true top 6 power forward / player and let guys compete for 4th line minutes. Line 1 and 3 (Lapierre or Maholtra is ok Centre 3rd line) is already set, it is line 2 that will start the season without an obvious Centre and more importantly we are missing a winger. 4th line is easy to fill and bring guys up to audition them. 4th line doesn;t need to be set until after the trade deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensenFan2011 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 would rather have Jensen even if raymond was in the ohl he still wouldn't be able to come close to Jensens points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobopan Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 as far as im concerned if Raymond is back with this team next season then its only because there were no better options for Gillis. This team would have not improved 1 bit at all. Its pretty simple IMO Raymond does not have the size to play on the 3rd line, nor does he have the talent to play on the 2nd line..where else does he fit in? You don't spend 2.5 million for a 4th liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnsey Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 if we sign him for one year at $3M or less than I would be ok with that. I used to be the fan that would defend Raymond non-stop saying that he was like Bieksa - trade rumours for years but then had a breakout year and everyone here fell in love with him again. This past year was a hard one. He obviously didn't play the best but his injury may have been a reason for that. Kesler didn't have his best season and an injury was obviously the reason for that. I don't think neither were quite 100% when they came back. Maybe a long off-season for Raymond will allow him time to recover and be able to put forward a better summer routine/workout. He might be able to come in and play like that 50PTS player he was a few years ago. As long as we do not sign him to a long term deal that costs too much. He is very much high risk at this point, but like the you have said he could also be a high reward. I just hope Gillis and co. do some smart moves this summer. I'm sure he will, been very little mistakes by him from what i can tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noheart Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 As we may see by the recent David Jones signing, free agents will be overpriced. (4 years @ 4 million for Jones who was a 37 point player last season). - Obviously the Av's didn't think there were better 4 million $ options in free agency - Jones would have finished the year with 42 points, whereas Raymond was on pace for 30 points. - Raymonds career average 39 points/season, Jones has averaged 40 points a season. - Both played about 15 minutes/game last year (2nd/3rd line tweeners). Jones got more PP time. - We saw last year that the price of a Marco Sturm was 2.2 million.... - Raymond at 2.5 is likely lower risk/higher reward than other free agent signings - We could hope that a player like Jensen or Sweatt could take over for Raymond but at the very best they would likely emulate Raymond during this past season. - I know CDC isn't the biggest fan of Raymond but if the going price of a 2nd/3rd liner comparable to Raymond is 4 million, I would gladly qualify Raymond at 2.55 - Unless MG is actively pursuing another option via trade he is the best player available at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 i would still rather see jensen or sweatt in our roster.. I honestly just want to see someone else get a shot. raymond and all the top line minutes he gets for his calibre of play is really starting to piss me off.. give our youth a chance I say,. at least it will give them some time to grow in the majors where playing raymond will do nothing for him as I dont think there is any further upside to his game and havent seen anything from him on the ice that should suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foo202 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 At this point, I dont think it is worth keeping Raymond. While I understand your point of top six players costing a premium, I would rather have Schroeder over Raymond since Schroeder s better than Raymond at distributing and setting up the puck for his line mates, which is a different type of player than we have on our 2nd/3rd lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fatigue Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 hard to say if he'd even fit in with whatever 'style' av and mg decide to emulate this coming season (see previous cdc threads on this subject) if we are going to stick with the wings model then speed is key and raymond has that in spades, despite skating/falling down %. if we go another route as far as team identity, theres no real place for raymond on this team. bigger and meaner? raymond doesn't qualify for either. as was posted before me, if raymond remains a canuck it's most likely because mg had no better option at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Raymond's defensive abilities and offensive potential make him intriguing enough to keep around but I do think there are better options out there. Honestly I don't like Kesler as a second line centre. He is better suited for a 3rd line checking role with pp time or as a winger. His offensive production 5 on 5 was worse than Booth and Raymond's. As a matter of fact he was in Malhotra/Lapierre territory which is unacceptable given the fact he is supposed to be an offensive leader and he played with more skilled guys. To Toronto Luongo Raymond To Vancouver Connolly Schenn Sedin Sedin Burrows Booth Conolly Kassian Higgins Malhotra Hansen Burrish Lapierre (Sweatt) Hamhuis Bieksa Edler Schenn Ballard Tanev Salo Schneider Biron And when Kes returns... Sedin Sedin Burrows Higgins Kesler Hansen Booth Conolly Kassian Burrish Malhotra Lappierre (Lines are split by minutes, not by roles). Now you might think I am insane for suggesting Connolly. Afterall, he only put up 36 points in 70 games. We know Connolly can be a pretty good offensive player and he did in fact have an off year in Toronto but when you dig deeper his numbers aren't that bad. It took Connolly approx 30 minutes of ES TOI to generate a point whereas it took Kesler 40 minutes. While Kesler's overall stats look far better, Connolly was actually 35% more productive 5 on 5. Cody Hodgson took just under 36 minutes of ES TOI to generate a point. While that was likely around 33 during his time in Vancouver, it just goes to show that Connolly can in fact help our 5 on 5 offense. I also like the dynamic, with Booth being a goal scorer and Kassian being a big lumbering power forward. This gives Kassian the chance to play with some pretty skilled veterans without having to worry about carrying the offensive load on the "2nd line". So what about the checking line? Will Kesler have to be responsible for all the defensive responsibilities? While the Kesler line will likely be put on the ice a lot of defensive situations, the Malhotra line is actually the one who is stuck in the defensive zone. Therefore, that last 4th line spot should be filled by a defensively responsible player. Adam Burish is a UFA who has sound defensive abilities. As we have seen from his time from Chicago, he can also be effective at knocking top players off their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaku Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Raymond is soft on his skates. He has speed, but can't seem to control the puck long enough to do anything with it besides turn it over. He needs to get shipped. MG wants the team to get bigger and stronger, Mason Raymond isn't either of those things. I would much rather see a player like Jensen on the Canucks roster, than May Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Raymond scored over 50 points just a couple of years ago, and has world class speed. Consider that St Louis's top scorer this year had 54 points? Qualifying him is a no brainer, even if not popular. I would also expect him much stronger after an off season where he can train. We do have a glut of LW, but at least its a retained asset. Maybe we can also send him to work with Gary Roberts. He can come back pumped and with a zen like confidence management confuses for a bad attitude, which gets him traded for prospects? But seriously, a healthy Raymond could put up 50 points. Jensen or the Kass train are not going to do that, certainly not next year! If he does bad, we get a 2knd round pick for him. If he sulks, he gets picked up on waivers and we're still not on the hook for his salary. See what the summer does for his training, its not any risk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Remember Raymond is coming back from a bad injury and should have a great season this year with a full summer of training plus a full training camp. He is still young and has up side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurrows14 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 As we may see by the recent David Jones signing, free agents will be overpriced. (4 years @ 4 million for Jones who was a 37 point player last season). - Obviously the Av's didn't think there were better 4 million $ options in free agency - Jones would have finished the year with 42 points, whereas Raymond was on pace for 30 points. - Raymonds career average 39 points/season, Jones has averaged 40 points a season. - Both played about 15 minutes/game last year (2nd/3rd line tweeners). Jones got more PP time. - We saw last year that the price of a Marco Sturm was 2.2 million.... - Raymond at 2.5 is likely lower risk/higher reward than other free agent signings - We could hope that a player like Jensen or Sweatt could take over for Raymond but at the very best they would likely emulate Raymond during this past season. - I know CDC isn't the biggest fan of Raymond but if the going price of a 2nd/3rd liner comparable to Raymond is 4 million, I would gladly qualify Raymond at 2.55 - Unless MG is actively pursuing another option via trade he is the best player available at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafizzle Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 If Raymond comes back to the team the only spot I think he's qualified for is in the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Drew Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I'm pissed off with AV not giving the young guns a fair chance since he's been here. Hopefully this season he makes up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I'm pissed off with AV not giving the young guns a fair chance since he's been here. Hopefully this season he makes up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I did and those stats mean nothing. As Jeff Tambo just said, Raymond simply doesn't have a role on this team. With his skill set, he needs to be a top 6 forward but unfortunately he's not good enough to be in the top 6 and if we use him on the second line, he brings the line down. There are also better players suited for the 3rd line so again he has no spot. Finally, he is not even remotely suited for the grind of the 4th line so he really doesn't have a spot. It's a shame we don't have a spot for someone who only kills penalties because that is the only thing he is decent at. But seriously, bringing him back just lowers the skill level of this team and that's just an idiotic thing to do if you want to build a championship team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobydooby Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 From what I've seen of Sweatt, he won't make our roster, never mind be productive. The problem with our forward 'youth' other than Jensen, is that there is no quality there. The best after Jensen might be Schroeder, and he hasn't even scored 25 goals or 50 points at the AHL level, never mind the NHL. Raymond has done both before he was injured. A full off-season of conditioning and he could well do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 The problem with Raymond too is the last memory of him is trying to throw a check on Kopitar (who's 40 pounds heavier) when he could have just skated and got the puck I wish Raymond the best and hope he has a rebound year but he doesnt have a spot on this team anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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