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Can The Sedins Win Us A Cup


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#91 Mountain Dew

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:00 AM

People who have followed Sedins since their start know that they are extremely good at avoiding goals at their own end. How the hell can you claim +/- doesn't mean anything?

The only time Sedins were bad defensively and were in on a lot of goals at their own end was in the 2011 playoffs and the +/- proves that. But otherwise? Otherwise they have far better +/- than the critically acclaimed Ryan Kesler for example. The Sedins used to kill penalties but AV has turned them into pure offensive forces so other players like Kesler can take care of the defensive assignments.

But to claim they are awful defensively? How long have you seen them play? How long have you followed the Canucks? I truly hope you're a bandwagoner and just not that stupid.

Edited by Mountain Dew, 12 June 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#92 Shift-4

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:01 AM

Yes, they can win us the Cup..........but not by themselves. No teams win it that way.
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#93 hockeywoot

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:05 AM

To the OP. Yes we can win a cup with them. Absolutely.
Can they elevate their play in the playoffs? No.
Their game doesn't match well to playoff hockey.

Therefore they need a better supporting cast. Which essentially is ....Kesler.

Offensively, as Kesler goes, so does this team.
This is a big problem. We're simply not talented enough.
We're a line one team, plus Kesler.

Size would help. Having more skill upfront would help more.
Top down, their needs to be offensive contribution from all 4 lines.

Look at King/Nolan for LA. or New Jersey's 4th line.
Bottom 6 contribution is critical.

#94 Line Juggler

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:11 AM

I think we will take 1 more serious run at least to the Western Conference Finals with the Sedins and Kesler. If we can get some strong young players performing at very high levels then within the next 4 to 5 years then we may take 2 more serious runs within that time frame.
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#95 Line Juggler

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:12 AM

If we had a yound 3rd line centre who was a monster and the Sedins and Kesler are healthy then look out. We could use 1 Monster on Defence too.
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#96 komodo1970

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:43 AM

It really is quite simple. The team as a whole needs to get more gritty. Playoff hockey is a totally different world. Only the toughest most determined teams win. I see a lot of people on CDC talking about how the refs cost us a cup against the Bruins, but I disagree. Yeah it sucks we lost, but the bottom line is, our players did not elevate the physical side of their game when it was known that the refs were gonna let them decide it. Yes we had injuries that played a huge role in the down turn in our play, but they'd been dealing with that the whole season. It's not an excuse. Add to that, Lou's weak game seven also cost them the series. He was weak in every game in Boston. He folded under pressure. The same thing happened this year against LA. They couldn't handle the constant pressure that LA put them under. They just out played us.

To ask if the Sedins can win us a cup is unfair. It is the team as a unit that needs to get their mean on. Contraversy is always going to be there. It happened this year with the Bernier hit. But it's how you deal with it that is key. The fact is their penalty kill s!@t the bed when it was needed most. Their coverage was horendous and had me shaking my head. I could see the goals coming before they even went in. In the end, five minutes cost them the game. Yes, the Sedins are our premier players, but last time I checked, hockey is a team sport. It is the team that wins and it is the team that loses.

#97 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:49 AM

I agree with all you guys saying that hockey is a team sport. But you saw what CBC was reiterating last night, your top players have to be your top players. How many points did Kopitar and Brown have? A LOT. They were nothing short of fantastic, especially Kopitar who was consistent right from day 1.

Edited by JeffTambo10, 12 June 2012 - 09:50 AM.

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#98 Canucklehead420

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:00 AM

The Sedins are awful in the playoffs, their peformance against Boston last year, was the worst thing i've ever seen. They always get shutdown, and are unable to Produce against teams who have a good defense. Also, their stats are highly inflated due to stacked offensive zone starts. They are huge defensive liabilities, and the two most one dimensional forwards in the nhl. They are two of the most overrated players in the nhl, and they are 50-60 point players without the 90 % offensive zone starts. It's sad that we are dependant on the Sedins, to carry us to a cup.


why don't 29 other teams use this genious tactic if thats all it takes to turn an average player into back 2 back art ross trophys?

#99 Sanj

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

I dont know what hockey some of you guys watch but the Sedin's take a beating working those corners. The number of crosschecks they take to the back is absolutely ridiculous. They are tough enough to take us to the cup but they need others to help. Shift focus from their line to another line for a little bit so they can get scoring again. We just need proper secondary scoring

#100 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:25 AM

Krejci is big?

The Sedins obviously can't do it all. They'll need help. From their teammates, their franchise, the refs and the league.


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#101 Raoul Duke

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

I honestly think we can get back to the Finals, we just need a true LEGIT second line.

Kesler needs to be less of a biatch too.

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#102 Jaku

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:11 PM

The Canucks have to play their own game to win a cup. The Sedins although don't play physical, don't have to. The Sedins need to play their game. Against Boston it was hard for them to do so, but that team was dirty and ugly, but we saw the Canucks win 3 games of that series. The Canucks need the Sedins play their game with crazy passing and incredible shooting. The Sedins can win the Canucks a cup.
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#103 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:22 PM

The Sedins are awful in the playoffs, their peformance against Boston last year, was the worst thing i've ever seen. They always get shutdown, and are unable to Produce against teams who have a good defense. Also, their stats are highly inflated due to stacked offensive zone starts. They are huge defensive liabilities, and the two most one dimensional forwards in the nhl. They are two of the most overrated players in the nhl, and they are 50-60 point players without the 90 % offensive zone starts. It's sad that we are dependant on the Sedins, to carry us to a cup.


I agree with some of what you say but they aren't two of the most overrated players in the NHL. Their offensive and passing skills are second to none, but if they don't get a big gritty guy on their line that can also score, there's no way we win a cup with them.

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#104 BenDrinkin

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:54 PM

Just like in Fantasy Football, if you have solid top players, all you need is the lower-level players to produce, and you can win the championship. Until we get a great bottom 6, or at least a hot one at the right time, we won't have a great chance to win the cup.

#105 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:57 PM

Yes, they can win us the Cup..........but not by themselves. No teams win it that way.


That's why it bothers me when people say Luongo didn't win the Cup. Of course he didn't, you moron. It takes a team effort, not one man.
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#106 juwanski

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:54 PM

Yes the Sedins can win us a cup. Sadly IMO the problem is Burrows. I am by no means bashing Burrows I love his play style and his character and his clutchness. Unfortunatley in the playoffs he almost goes Mayraydown styles, he just isn't first line material in the playoffs. Too small and not skilled enough for top line playoffs.

#107 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:07 PM

Yes the Sedins can win us a cup. Sadly IMO the problem is Burrows. I am by no means bashing Burrows I love his play style and his character and his clutchness. Unfortunatley in the playoffs he almost goes Mayraydown styles, he just isn't first line material in the playoffs. Too small and not skilled enough for top line playoffs.


Seriously? Burrows is the problem? I remember last year vs. CHI Burr wasn't producing with the Sedins so they moved him with Kesler and they ripped it up together. Burrows compliments the Sedins very well when everyone is working well on that line.
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#108 RBCanucks

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:58 PM

No, not unless they take their game to the next level.

The Sedins are notorious for being poor playoff performers but to me it's more than simple underperformance. To me, the playoffs are the time when teams capitalize on the weaknesses that the Sedins have always had but aren't exposed as often in the regular season.

The main problem is that the Sedins are:
- slow
- predictable and one demensional - pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, point shot, pass, pass, pass, turnover, casual skate to the bench.
- terrible defensively
- aren't physical - started to see a little bit more from Daniel this past year, but even so the Sedins generally refuse of be physical. That's nice, we will never win a cup unless they step up.

The fact is, teams who have won the cup are either offensive powerhouses or are the bigger, more physical team. The Canucks (in large part because of the Sedins) are great regular season performers, but come playoff time when teams and players need to pull out all the stops to win the Cup, the Sedins are not prepared or willing to do this. Kesler in the Nashville series is a perfect example of what is necessary to win. The Sedins are great offensive players but are limited too much by their own style and reluctance to change or adapt to different circumstances.

The Kings won the Cup in a almost the same way the Bruins did. They were physical right from the start, were strong on the boards, kept the opposition to the outside, made entry into their zone difficult, and were ALWAYS in position. The Kings first line were key offensive players but also played a key defensive role and stayed physical the entire run. The Sedins are either incapable or unwilling of playing this way.

My biggest problem with the Sedins is that they never appear to actually care about winning so much as they care about winning THEIR way and no one else's, which drive's me insane. It's honorable if it works but the problem is that it hasn't and won't work unless the Sedins start carrying their own weight on ALL ends of the ice and not just in the offensive zone.

Edited by rbcanucks87, 12 June 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#109 RBCanucks

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:59 PM

double post.

Edited by rbcanucks87, 12 June 2012 - 09:59 PM.


#110 Danthecanucksfan

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:17 PM

if kesler stops diving, the cup is ours

#111 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 11:31 PM

if kesler stops diving, the cup is ours


Pretty much, it's bad karma, and is equal to a mini penalty every time he lays on the ice. The Twins have far more integrity, and over the years are becoming more bitter of defeat. They will lead, they need a team to step up and follow.

Higgins "most consistent" of our forwards couldn't hit a soccer net come play offs, Burr had 1 goal and spent most of his ice time getting layed out. Booth showed up to hit but didn't have the touch to finish, Kes embarrassed the team and himself, defence was awful.

Other than the twins and Schnieds, Wiese, Raymond, Booth and Jannik seemed the only ones interested in playing hard every shift. I wouldn't feel as bad if the rest of the team showed the same urgency and still lost, the way it happened though was pretty ugly.

Edited by CanucksSayEh, 12 June 2012 - 11:39 PM.


#112 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 12:34 AM

Honest opinion yes they have the ability too, but first and foremost they both need to be healthy from the start of the playoffs and both be playing. Second and this one is very important, they need a bigger and stronger winger to play with them, someone who can go to the net and not get tossed around. Not hating on Burrows or anything, but he's not the right fit for the Sedins, yes he can get the job done in points, just like every other player who ever plays with the Sedins, but Burrows is just not big and strong enough to be playing against opposing teams top D pairings in front of the net.

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#113 hockeywoot

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:42 AM

No, not unless they take their game to the next level.

The Sedins are notorious for being poor playoff performers but to me it's more than simple underperformance. To me, the playoffs are the time when teams capitalize on the weaknesses that the Sedins have always had but aren't exposed as often in the regular season.

The main problem is that the Sedins are:
- slow
- predictable and one demensional - pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, point shot, pass, pass, pass, turnover, casual skate to the bench.
- terrible defensively
- aren't physical - started to see a little bit more from Daniel this past year, but even so the Sedins generally refuse of be physical. That's nice, we will never win a cup unless they step up.

The fact is, teams who have won the cup are either offensive powerhouses or are the bigger, more physical team. The Canucks (in large part because of the Sedins) are great regular season performers, but come playoff time when teams and players need to pull out all the stops to win the Cup, the Sedins are not prepared or willing to do this. Kesler in the Nashville series is a perfect example of what is necessary to win. The Sedins are great offensive players but are limited too much by their own style and reluctance to change or adapt to different circumstances.

The Kings won the Cup in a almost the same way the Bruins did. They were physical right from the start, were strong on the boards, kept the opposition to the outside, made entry into their zone difficult, and were ALWAYS in position. The Kings first line were key offensive players but also played a key defensive role and stayed physical the entire run. The Sedins are either incapable or unwilling of playing this way.

My biggest problem with the Sedins is that they never appear to actually care about winning so much as they care about winning THEIR way and no one else's, which drive's me insane. It's honorable if it works but the problem is that it hasn't and won't work unless the Sedins start carrying their own weight on ALL ends of the ice and not just in the offensive zone.



I agree with most of these points. However I will say:

-The Canucks simply lack offensive ability. We don't have many guys outside of the Sedins and Kesler, who can be
consistently counted on to produce. This is why they get so many offensive zone starts. You gotta use what you've got.
-However with that in mind, their defensive play has regressed, since they're not being used in all situations. I hope AV can give them more varied starts this year to improve their defensive play.

-The Sedins aren't agressive, gritty, physical players. Never have, never will be. Sure, ideally they would be. But ideally, they'd be 40 lbs heavier, and destroy everything in sight. Dropping the gloves more often than Lucic. Not going to happen.
-With that in mind, the supporting cast needs to have more size and grit. While they're somewhat gritty, we don't really have a consistent physical presence. Hansen is ocassionally. Lapierre sometimes. 1 or 2 out 6 is simply not good enough. Torres was great at this. Neither are exactly large, imposing players. IMO, if the bottom was gritty, sizable, and tough enough to compensate for the Sedins, we'd be golden.

-also, since we lack a truly dynamic offensive group, we have relied on our defence to be mobile, and puck-moving, always pushing the tempo of play. Too many. Its for this reason, we don't have as many, large, steady, crease-clearing defencemen.

#114 Burnsey

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 04:58 AM

If they got some help, that would be nice. We are a one line team in the playoff's. Everyone saying we need a top 4 d-man, well i would prefer a top 6 playoff performer you can get the job done and take the pressure off the Sedins.

For the past 3-5 years this team has said they want to take the offensive load/pressure off the Sedins shoulder's, well get it done then. Get us a good 2nd line and a good 3rd line that can contribute as well and the Sedins can get more rest and be used/matched-up against the opponent's weaker lines ;P

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#115 Vansicle

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:57 AM

To ask if the Sedins can win us a cup is unfair.


Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#116 Avicii

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:25 AM

When Daniel Sedin was injured, I honestly thought we could win and go deep with him out of the line-up.

I didn't realize how important Daniel was to this team until the LA series.

To answer the OP, we better hope they can be the go to guys to win us the cup because they're the only players who are capable of it besides Luongo.

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