Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

cmpunk

Big minute Defenseman

45 posts in this topic

After seeing LA win the cup and thinking back to past cup winners a lot of them have a certain defenseman that plays big minutes and is always counted on. Does not always have to be a norris trophy player but a guy that plays in all situations and plays solid defense minutes. This playoffs Doughty was this guy for the Kings playing a lot of minutes and one game I saw was over 30 mins.

I think we have this player that is capable of playing big hard minutes of playoff hockey in Dan Hamhuis. Hammer had another solid year of playing defense as shown by his plus minus. But what I don't get is why Hammer never played big minutes this playoffs and last year, although last year was a bit different story. I just think we have a very solid defenseman that is built for playing big minute playoff hockey and should be playing a lot minutes when he is capable of doing it. Should not worry about balancing ice time among defense in the playoffs.

Once playoffs start, Hamhuis is the guy we need to be playing the big minutes and shutting down top lines no matter how many minutes he has to play.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't play 30 minutes because we have enough depth that he doesn't have to.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't play 30 minutes because we have enough depth that he doesn't have to.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather have the reliable Hamhuis playing big minutes in the playoffs then balancing it out. Especially when he is very capable and reliabe. The Kings have a pretty solid top 6 as well but Doughty was thier go to guy.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather have the reliable Hamhuis playing big minutes in the playoffs then balancing it out. Especially when he is very capable and reliabe. The Kings have a pretty solid top 6 as well but Doughty was thier go to guy.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That one game went into over time so no wonder he played 30 mins. Most of his other games averaged around the 24 minute mark which is standard for a top 2 D man.

Canucks D do it by committee and they have to in order to be successful.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't play 30 minutes because we have enough depth that he doesn't have to.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a recurring theme - big star defencemen win Cups.

2012 - Doughty (Norris nomination, Gold medal winner)

2011 - Chara (Norris winner)

2010 - Keith (Norris winner)

2009 - Gonchar (5-time All Star, coming off a 65 point season, playing at a 60-point pace prior injury)

2008 - Lidstrom

2007 - Neidermayer/Pronger

You have to go back to 2006 for the last time a defence without a true star won the Cup, and in that case Ward put on a clinic to win the Cup and Conn Smythe. Even the Tampa Bay Lightning didn't have a true #1 defenceman (Boyle and Kubina but not yet stars). Prior to the lockout the game was a bit different, but still...

2003 - Neidermayer/Scott Stevens/Rafalski (take your pick)

2002 - Lidstrom/Chelios

2001 - Rob Blake/Ray Bourque/Adam Foote

2000 - Neidermayer/Scott Stevens/Rafalski

Stars on defence have been the key to cup success, especially earlier on but now it only takes 1 or 2 defensive stars to go the distance. Our only chance is if Edler pans out to be a Doughty-like young defensive star, but I'd much rather trade one of our star goalies for a star defenceman around the league somewhere. We need a franchise defenceman and Hamhuis/Bieksa are far from that. Edler was voted 6th for defencemen by TSN, Ehrhoff was 9th in Norris voting a year ago but we have no one in that elusive top-3 that gives a club a real chance in the playoffs.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a different way of looking at things: While the offensive dynamo's get the credit for creating the scoring play, it's the Scuderi's, Greene's and Mitchell's next to the puck movers (Doughty, Voynov, Martinez) who provide the back end stability. They're not going to score much but they make the simple play, securing the ice in front of the net and pinning guys behind it, picking up the loose puck or freeing it for the more mobile and offensively talented partner, who then strings passes up for offense. These guys, with their size and okay mobility for their size, complement the smaller, agile guys really well, and without these defensive stabilizers the plays likely wouldn't go so well. How else do you think Quick can get his two or less goals against per game without that hulking wall in front of him?

Offense may help u win games by outscoring the other team, but in the end defense (and SKILLED size) gets it done and helps win championships. Doughty - Scuderi. Seidenberg - Chara. Keith - Seabrook. Niedermayer - Stevens way back when. That's how winning tandems go: skilled size to complement and cover mistakes for mobile guys. Sure hope the Canucks can get that rock to complement Edler and allow him to make the roving offensive plays (Wanting Garrison!)

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comftorble with hamhuis bieksa and Edler in most situations

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I look at it, some defensemen thrive on playing a lot of minutes and play better then playing average minutes. Duncan Keith is a guy who seems to play better when playing a lot of minutes.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a recurring theme - big star defencemen win Cups.

2012 - Doughty (Norris nomination, Gold medal winner)

2011 - Chara (Norris winner)

2010 - Keith (Norris winner)

2009 - Gonchar (5-time All Star, coming off a 65 point season, playing at a 60-point pace prior injury)

2008 - Lidstrom

2007 - Neidermayer/Pronger

You have to go back to 2006 for the last time a defence without a true star won the Cup, and in that case Ward put on a clinic to win the Cup and Conn Smythe. Even the Tampa Bay Lightning didn't have a true #1 defenceman (Boyle and Kubina but not yet stars). Prior to the lockout the game was a bit different, but still...

2003 - Neidermayer/Scott Stevens/Rafalski (take your pick)

2002 - Lidstrom/Chelios

2001 - Rob Blake/Ray Bourque/Adam Foote

2000 - Neidermayer/Scott Stevens/Rafalski

Stars on defence have been the key to cup success, especially earlier on but now it only takes 1 or 2 defensive stars to go the distance. Our only chance is if Edler pans out to be a Doughty-like young defensive star, but I'd much rather trade one of our star goalies for a star defenceman around the league somewhere. We need a franchise defenceman and Hamhuis/Bieksa are far from that. Edler was voted 6th for defencemen by TSN, Ehrhoff was 9th in Norris voting a year ago but we have no one in that elusive top-3 that gives a club a real chance in the playoffs.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He does not play 30 minutes because we have better offensive D than Hammer. If that means we have depth so be it, lets just call that the glass is half full.

Now lets credit where due as well. Hammer is a good to well above average puck mover (passer), is composed (but not overly talented) handling the puck, has an effective shot and is a very smart decision maker with the puck.

But its half, maybe 2/3rds full. No big shot, no breakout speed, no magical end to end rushes and most importantly > he's not the talent to push the puck through the neutral zone against pressure if he has no passing lane. He circles back and sets up the play again. Duncan Kieth, Pietrangelo, Letang, Campbell, Doughty, these guys all personally pick up the puck (and the team) and carry them up ice into the offensive zone. Heck, Chara and Weber dont blow past people, but they put them on their hip, protect the puck, start moving up ice and pass it when they draw the double team and a lane opens up.

What we desperately need is a full jug, not to give offensive minutes to Hamhuis ahead of better players for that role. How good would Hammer look with a guy like Doughty?

He doesn't play 30 minutes because we have enough depth that he doesn't have to.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please see the highlighted portion of a separate response of mine below. All those teams had a defensive player that put their premium offensive players in a position to score.

And for FTR, Marchand, nor Lucic can hold a hockey stick compared to Chara, Bergeron is close and Thomas his equal. NONE of those guys is as effective without Chara, who would be just as effective without them!

Your argument really only holds true with the Penguins amongst that list.

The offense on all those teams had a significant factor if not a biger one than the defence.

2012: Kopitar,Brown,RIchards,Carter>Doughty

2011:Lucic,Marchand,Bergereon,Thomas>Chara

2010:Kane,Toews,Byfulien,Ladd>Kieth

2009:Crosby,Malkin,stall,fleury>Gonchar

2008:Daytsuk,Zetterberg,Franzen>Lidstrom

2007:This is where your idea is true

prior to this i dont have a clear understanding from not watching the games.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He does not play 30 minutes because we have better offensive D than Hammer.  If that means we have depth so be it, lets just call that the glass is half full.

Now lets credit where due as well. Hammer is a good to well above average puck mover (passer), is composed (but not overly talented) handling the puck, has an effective shot and is a very smart decision maker with the puck.  

But its half, maybe 2/3rds full. No big shot, no breakout speed, no magical end to end rushes and most importantly > he's not the talent to push the puck through the neutral zone against pressure if he has no passing lane. He circles back and sets up the play again.  Duncan Kieth, Pietrangelo, Letang, Campbell, Doughty, these guys all personally pick up the puck (and the team) and carry them up ice into the offensive zone. Heck, Chara and Weber dont blow past people, but they put them on their hip, protect the puck, start moving up ice and pass it when they draw the double team and a lane opens up.

What we desperately need is a full jug, not to give offensive minutes to Hamhuis ahead of better players for that role. How good would Hammer look with a guy like Doughty?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if you've ever played hockey, but playing after playing more than 20 minutes even the most in shape guys will be absolutely bombed. Once you get upwards of 30 minutes the odds of them making a costly mistake are huge.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall Hammy trying to bite off more than he could chew at the end of the LA series...let's have a balanced D built around Hammy Edler and KB and not put any added pressure on guys when we don't need to...(and who on LA are you talking about, Doughty? LA's D was a big team effort from vets like Scudri and Mitchell, and great play from their support guys Greene and Martinez. But that's not to say Doughty wasn't amazing against the Devils)

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comftorble with hamhuis bieksa and Edler in most situations

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't play 30 minutes because we have enough depth that he doesn't have to.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a fan of players playing big minutes. Edler at +25 and the Twins and Kesler at +22 is more a comment on the coaches concern that the rest of his lineup cannot get the job done. Not only can it led to discord in the roster but come playoffs these players can run out of gas. It also a bit of a cop out for the coaching staff if they leave it up to a few rather than coach the whole team to win.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.