Tm085 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 TORRES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 4 million dollar cap hit for 50 pt d-man is underpayment. Shea weber almost gets double that for the same pt production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 None. Just because they are liked doesn't mean they fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucks+Cup+♥ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 coho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Where is the review? All you have committed to is that we need "two significant pieces?" And essentially pouted over some moves, waxed poetic over others. Really, you are telling MG to move or get off the pot. Just say it louder > we need a big trade! That's alrite, I share your opinion almost exactly! I have highlighted your note wondering if it is time to go all in with this championship window? Its a fair question, the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows all had performance drops this year, a troubling sign. Maybe its just an issue of complimenting them with the correct physical players? I personally hope MG did know Kesler was injured when he traded Hodgson. Then I could believe he was building for next year and sacrificing this, as we would not have succeeded with a battered Kesler. I truly hope he did not believe Kassian was ready to be a solution this year! Assessment? Mine is that we have gobs of forward talent and speed. Yes 3 potential all stars is a strength, something only Chicago and the Penguins can top, as much as people call for an all star for Kesler. We have goaltending! We have more than adequate scoring and puck movement on D. These are our strengths. But we are clearly missing other elements. Balance in our line up is a big concern. On D we have offensive talent, are deep on the left side but weak in the right. We lack ANY element of a punishing defender. Hamhuis is a superb dfefensive D, but not punishing. We also don't have a puck carrying D man who can either rush the puck or carry it through pressure in the neutral zone when there are no passing lanes. Or to gain the zone on the PP. We need to integrate or acquire at least two D (probably both right D), a puck carrying speedster and a bruising physical beast. Up front, we have 4 Top line (3 plus Higgins) capable LW's (Burrows, Danny, Booth and Higgins) and only one natural right wing on our top 3 lines (Hansen). Again, we lack any true physical brute to compliment talent and speed. And we gave up our 3rd line center hoping (false economy) we could solve all with Kassian, a RW. The diminished capacity of Malhotra and escape of Torres took away the brilliant moves which created a physical match on our 3rd line, to play against any imposing forward lines. Malhotra (may surprise with a summer of training) Lapierre and somebody will remain a great 4th line. We need to acquire or integrate at least two RW's, a center and likely trade a LW for a 3rd RW. Above I noted performance declines with the Twins and Kesler, it could be argued the same was true with Lou? Well, really he had a great year at times holding up the team. But we did win the Jennings again, and he was not the problem but not stellar or the solution against L.A. A case could be made that if we did not more than swap Quick for Lou, we would have won that series? Not possible, but makes the point! At any rate, our top goalie was being outplayed by his backup. I'm calling it an off year for Lou! Add it up, we had down years by our top 4 players, no team is going to win! Add that up again, then include that we need to upgrade size and match up problems, fill rights side D and wing positions plus source a puck carrying D man. My conclusion agree's with the OP's > WE NEED A BLOCKBUSTER! It could be Kesler, but that leaves more holes to fill. It will be better to par-lay from strengths in goal, Left D and Left wing. MG, Lou gave you a hint, its time to deliver or we will be rebuilding this time next year! So, the playoffs are over and done with. We have seen one of our own fan-favorites lift the cup. It was a bit of a shock to the system seeing Willie Mitchell being the first one to hold the cup after the Kings’ captain, in spite of having known for almost the whole game that Willie would get his turn. I thought now would be a good time to summarise what has been going wrong over the past couple of seasons. If the parade is being planned in another city, things haven’t gone right. No matter how you put it, our goal-tending was not a problem in the playoffs or during the season as a whole. And yet, the biggest decision for the management over the next few months remains the goaltending. It will have long-term implications no matter who they keep. And in the unlikely event of keeping both goal-tenders, it would seem unlikely both would make it past the trade deadline in Canucks colours. I would hope that we would have a decision latest by trade deadline next season as to who we are putting our long-term faith in. I am still split on who we should keep; neither seems to be a bad option. But we have discussed that topic way too much already and will keep doing so for years to come, no matter how sweet or sour the outcome turns out to be. But the major thought I have been having over the last 2 months in my mind has been – where is the big trade for next season coming from? And yes, there has to be one, maybe two. We have put all our trust in Mike Gillis, hopefully rightly so. He seems to get the best of the smaller trades, reviving player careers like Lapierre’s and Higgins’; while keeping the cost of contracts down. But there comes a time when you have to go all out for what you crave. You do have to take a chance, an educated punt. It can’t be all guesswork; after all, the GM has a full crew of experts working for him and hopefully helping him out in his thought process. Chicago took a chance on Hossa’s big contract; the Kings made a bunch of changes to their roster and took a chance on our hometown boy when we failed to take the same risk! They even made a coaching change when needed, and were active around trade deadline. A trade between Cody Hodgson and Kassian did not cut it, whether Cody was a problem child or not. Maybe the trade could have waited till now. Wouldn’t Cody have loved to show what he is made of so more teams would line up for him. That would also have helped increase his trade value. It could have been a win-win. No matter who says what and who we believe, we will never know what really went on behind closed doors. Kassian just wasn’t good enough to be on the roster and it was clear after the first 3 games as a Canucks, once the excitement and adrenaline calmed off. In our market, we pay a bit too much attention to the local media telling us how good the trades and new players coming in are. All the talk about having Kassian on the first line as a try-out with the Sedins was just that – all talk. A player has to be good enough to play on the 3rd or 2nd line before making it to the top line. And similarly, all trades are not great trades, the local experts are essentially homeboys, The Team does business on all topics Canucks, surely they would keep the management happy in general. So, we should take all talk about the great trades and acquisitions with a pinch of salt. I am not pretending to know as much as the GM knows – surely, there must be a lot of deliberation and information going into each and every decision. But in hindsight, we have made mistakes. And we have not taken big chances. And knowing how much of a fan following MG seems to have, dare I say that he should be judged by the same yard-stick as we judge our coach, Luongo, Sedins, Kesler et al. If the team cannot bring home the cup, nobody has done their job as well as we would like. So to mention a few things that haven’t gone great with the benefit of hindsight: we have missed Torres more than we thought, Willie Mitchell is a healthy, stay-at-home cup winning defenseman, Malhotra returned from injury in the Cup final too early and that messed up the team chemistry (completely my personal opinion), Kesler returned from injury too soon (as if to re-iterate the fact that what should have been a lesson in case of Manny’s early return was ignored), Grabner and/or Cody could have helped more than Raymond has helped. And then there are the issues with our planning and responses to certain situations. There wasn’t much of response to either Daniel getting the elbow by Keith, or Henrik being run over by Brown. The Marchand punch response is well known. Our team having a mixed identity that moved away from the Detroit model but not quite enough towards the Bruins or Minnesota or Phoenix model in the last 3rd of the season. The persistence with the drop pass, Henrik trying to shoot the puck for a month and going back to his pass first mentality, Sammy Salo’s supposed decrease in work-load never materialising, the reluctance to seriously trial separating the twins have all been little things that show a lack of belief in the plans made. I am assuming quotes in the media are not the full version of what the players and staff plan on. But it all seems to equate to more madness than method. Kesler being injured was news to us, I would be surprised if it was news to the club. There would be at least a fair chance that the staff knew he was not a 100% at the time Cody was being traded. Not a smart trade, if that is true. Make no mistake; we have had Sundin, Ballard, Erhoff, Hamhuis, Samuelsson, Booth come into the club via trades and such. As mentioned earlier, we have had a lot of additions to the club in the form of Higgins, Samuelsson and Torres for a while, Lapierre, Alberts, Burrows a while back; Hansen, Edler , Schnieder, Tanev and others have come along under this management. The goaltending situation has been handled with class and with surgeon-like precision: changing Luongo’s coach, decreasing his workload, getting Schnieder to where he is now – all things goaltending could not have gone any better. But the fact remains that we haven’t had a blockbuster trade since Luongo. Now would be the time to go for the cup all out, if the time has not already passed. Like they keep saying, the days of hockey dynasties are long gone; you need to be good enough for one postseason to be the Stanley Cup champions. Any of the decisions from the past, or one that will be made this coming season could yet turn out to be a masterstroke. It will be called that only if we win the cup, as there is a fine line in professional sports between brilliance and utter shame. Luck does play a factor, but luck also favours the brave. So, with all the great players on offer this free agency and going up to the end of trade deadline day, I feel we need ideally 2 big pieces to be added to our current core – which will likely only miss one of the goal-tenders, maybe Ballard, Raymond or other smaller pieces. We probably will never know who was offered or who was interested in joining our team unless we have them wearing a Canucks uniform, but this is the year that defines this team, the management and this era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Canuck Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I voted for "none of them", as I would rather look forward than back. They all had upsides certainly, but do any of them fit the new MG profile of "bigger and younger?" I want to believe in MG, but all he has done so far is bring back AV, sign Alex Friesen and take Mason Raymond to arbitration. In fairness, it is early days and much can (and hopefully will) happen between now and the start of the new season. I hope I am wrong and MG pulls a few crackers, I just have this gut feeling of having been here before. We need an injection of new faces and fresh ideas. In any business, if something doesn't work, it gets slightly adapted, radically altered or completely discarded. If MG thinks adding a few more fourth liners, who can fill in now and then on the third line is the answer, we will fail again. Our problems are in the top six forwards and in defence. If we don't solve those problem areas, it will make no difference which goalie we keep and which we trade. We need a quality right winger to support and feed off the twins, a play-making second line centre to supply Booth and Kesler (who should play RW when he is 100% fit) and a tough right - handed D to play alongside Alex Edler. We have more than enough quality to fill the rest of the roster and plenty spare men to trade, or allow to leave. It needs to be addressed before training camp begins. Bringing back any of our former players will certainly not be the answer. We can only hope..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank23Hank Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 4 million dollar cap hit for 50 pt d-man is underpayment. Shea weber almost gets double that for the same pt production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank23Hank Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 4 million dollar cap hit for 50 pt d-man is underpayment. Shea weber almost gets double that for the same pt production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underachieving Hero of CDC Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ehrhoff costs too much. That doesn't change. Hodgson didn't want to be here. I'm guessing that didn't change either. None of the other players would have had a significant impact except for Willie Mitchell. He would have been great for the team but you can't blame MG for letting him go. At the time, his injury situation was pretty dicey and his career could have gone either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Willie (with Edler) Sammy (on the 2nd line to snipe!) Torres (need that skilled size for the playoffs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicocanuck Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Title of the thread implies that there would be an assessment of the team before trading season begins... Instead, the post suggests we need a "big trade", without specifically saying what we need... Then, of course, we get to use hindsight to talk about players that will likely never play with the Canucks again... Which sparks a very redundant conversation about Hodgson and Erhoff. All that's left is a comment about "ShudDa DraFt3d KOpiTRARZZZ" and we've got ourselves a typical CDC thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kesburlerows Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ehrhoff and Torres and would rather have Grabner over Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Nuck Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Title of the thread implies that there would be an assessment of the team before trading season begins... Instead, the post suggests we need a "big trade", without specifically saying what we need... All that's left is a comment about "ShudDa DraFt3d KOpiTRARZZZ" and we've got ourselves a typical CDC thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gally Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Erhoff or maybe Mitchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostViking Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 All I see is a list of people in the poll that would not have been able to score on LA, so I think its a moot point to have had any of them back this year. Also, I feel that the Hodgson deal shouldn't be evaluated based on Hodgson vs Kassian. I think Hodgson was temporarily replaced by Pahlsson, will soon be permanently replaced by Schroeder, and that Kassian was added for free. I think management decided Cody wasn't ready and were prepared to send him back to the AHL in order to bring in Pahlsson. This is possibly where some of the "unpleasantness" took place but who knows. I see the move as a prospect swap, neither Cody nor Zack were ready to help us win a Stanley Cup, regardless of the fact both were capable of playing in the NHL. The key to that deal will be seeing how Schroeder looks over the next couple of years. Whether or not he develops as fast as Cody isn't too important, but if he turns out to be a similar caliber player then we win big. We know he has better skating, passing, deking skills than Cody. Cody is definitely bigger, but he got pushed around a lot and played pretty small so I don't imagine much difference in their physicality. Cody's main upside was his complete game, mainly the defensive and leadership aspects he brought to the table. Granted I will say Cody had an excellent shot that will be hard for Schroeder to match. With rumors of Cody being a dressing room problem, and his defensive game being non-existent, I think it makes Schroeder an attractive replacement. I also think Schroeder fits our top six a lot nicer, he has the speed to keep up with everyone (no one gets to play on the second line for too long if they can't keep up with Kesler) and he is a passer (something we desperately need on the second line). If Schroeder works out, and Kassian develops a bit more, this trade could turn out to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Orange Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Holy microscopic font there, Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmotamed Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Aren't we paying Bieksa more right now than what Ehrhoff wanted in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Disappointing to hear a guy being bagged cuz he's gone. Sure Schroeder skates better, but really thats it. Passer??? Hodgson was better than anyone on our team not named Sedin. You have not seen Schroeder play defence against NHL competition, and Hodgson was a plus player here. All I see is a list of people in the poll that would not have been able to score on LA, so I think its a moot point to have had any of them back this year. Also, I feel that the Hodgson deal shouldn't be evaluated based on Hodgson vs Kassian. I think Hodgson was temporarily replaced by Pahlsson, will soon be permanently replaced by Schroeder, and that Kassian was added for free. I think management decided Cody wasn't ready and were prepared to send him back to the AHL in order to bring in Pahlsson. This is possibly where some of the "unpleasantness" took place but who knows. I see the move as a prospect swap, neither Cody nor Zack were ready to help us win a Stanley Cup, regardless of the fact both were capable of playing in the NHL. The key to that deal will be seeing how Schroeder looks over the next couple of years. Whether or not he develops as fast as Cody isn't too important, but if he turns out to be a similar caliber player then we win big. We know he has better skating, passing, deking skills than Cody. Cody is definitely bigger, but he got pushed around a lot and played pretty small so I don't imagine much difference in their physicality. Cody's main upside was his complete game, mainly the defensive and leadership aspects he brought to the table. Granted I will say Cody had an excellent shot that will be hard for Schroeder to match. With rumors of Cody being a dressing room problem, and his defensive game being non-existent, I think it makes Schroeder an attractive replacement. I also think Schroeder fits our top six a lot nicer, he has the speed to keep up with everyone (no one gets to play on the second line for too long if they can't keep up with Kesler) and he is a passer (something we desperately need on the second line). If Schroeder works out, and Kassian develops a bit more, this trade could turn out to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderine Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 All I see is a list of people in the poll that would not have been able to score on LA, so I think its a moot point to have had any of them back this year. Also, I feel that the Hodgson deal shouldn't be evaluated based on Hodgson vs Kassian. I think Hodgson was temporarily replaced by Pahlsson, will soon be permanently replaced by Schroeder, and that Kassian was added for free. I think management decided Cody wasn't ready and were prepared to send him back to the AHL in order to bring in Pahlsson. This is possibly where some of the "unpleasantness" took place but who knows. I see the move as a prospect swap, neither Cody nor Zack were ready to help us win a Stanley Cup, regardless of the fact both were capable of playing in the NHL. The key to that deal will be seeing how Schroeder looks over the next couple of years. Whether or not he develops as fast as Cody isn't too important, but if he turns out to be a similar caliber player then we win big. We know he has better skating, passing, deking skills than Cody. Cody is definitely bigger, but he got pushed around a lot and played pretty small so I don't imagine much difference in their physicality. Cody's main upside was his complete game, mainly the defensive and leadership aspects he brought to the table. Granted I will say Cody had an excellent shot that will be hard for Schroeder to match. With rumors of Cody being a dressing room problem, and his defensive game being non-existent, I think it makes Schroeder an attractive replacement. I also think Schroeder fits our top six a lot nicer, he has the speed to keep up with everyone (no one gets to play on the second line for too long if they can't keep up with Kesler) and he is a passer (something we desperately need on the second line). If Schroeder works out, and Kassian develops a bit more, this trade could turn out to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If Hodgson wanted to stay, he would have been exactly what we need - a skilled 3rd liner who can score and gives us depth offence (that really dried up after he left). Samuelsson ended up out-producing Booth in the regular season (pace) and playoffs, but I believe Booth brings physicality and his youth will serve our team better in the future. Ehrhoff's departure left some glaring weaknesses on our blueline. The Canucks defence is thin and now deep forward units like those of the Kings are exploiting it. Sure they made up for Ehrhoff's offence, but not his valuable 22+ quality minutes against the opposing team's top 2 lines. Salo clearly can't handle those extra minutes, either can Tanev and Ballard. Torres has been replaced physically by Bitz and Lapierre in the hitting department, but he scored some big goals for us that haven't really been replaced from our 3rd line. Mitchell was however more than replaced by Hamhuis. As much as I'd love to have both of them in the lineup, Hamhuis is a much better option than Mitchell as an overall defenceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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