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Edler's Mind Tricks

AV and Cognitive Bias-by Jeff Angus

57 posts in this topic

I agree with those that say AV is a great regular season coach. He's great at getting his team to stick to a specific system. The only problem he seems to have is adjusting his team to playoff hockey. Playing the same team for up to seven games is a lot different than seeing them on a few spread out occasions through out an 82 game season. In a seven game series, there are gonna have to be adjustments made. Sometimes systems have to go out the window and tailoring the teams game to counter the oppositions strengths become more prevalent. He has to be able to raise his teams performance and resolve. Through out the series against LA, I felt they were too soft and not very determined. Yes they ran into a goaltender that was making incredible save after incredible save, but they allowed themselves to be boxed out when rebounds were there to be had. The determination to get to the net and punch in the ugly goals wasn't there. Also, when the play got rough, they seemed to fold, instead, resorting to pathetic dive attempts and shying away from confrontation. When Henrick got rocked by Brown, nobody made Brown pay. They tried a half hearted attempt to hit him, but nobody made him truly pay. A lot of the blame seems to be placed squarely on Luongo and I find this to be unfair. Yes he let in a couple of weak goals and he should be blamed for a bit of it, but more often than not, it was their defensive play that created a lot of the goals. I feel that, at times, they hung Lou out to dry and didn't really hold themselves accountable for the losses. Yes, they gave a few comments about how they have to be a little more responsible in the defensive zone, but at no time did I get the sense that they were honestly feeling it and certainly didn't show much to improve the situation. Until the team, as a whole learns to play with more attitude and determination, I don't see any changes coming in their playoff future. It is the team that wins and it is the team that loses. Blame cannot be placed on any one player or any one coach. It is all who succeed or fail.

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Thank you again Vansicle, good to see you also saw through the ruse. I wonder if he realizes his post is hypocritical.

Wait a second. Oh no! I'm falling victim to bandowagoning and confirmation bias!! I have no original thoughts and all of my opinions are baseless! If only I had some psychobabble to throw around that justifies my thoughts and actions, looks like I need to take a trip to the library.

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You can use all the science in the world to explain that Vigneault is a good coach because he is!! BUT this isnt about the past right now, it's about moving forward. After 6 years is he the coach that's going to take this team to a stanley cup?? The answer is no, it's time to move on.

I started a topic a week ago and I stand by it -

"After watching the Kings absolutely dominate round after round of the playoffs it reinforces just how important one aspect of the game is... Coaching!!

I know they have many stars, big bodies and great goaltending but the coaching is definitely a huge part of their success. Look at what Sutter has done since coming to town. They needed a new face and a fresh perspective, and now this team is absolutely sound. Lombardi assembled a great team and he took the final step by getting the right coach.

Just saying... hate away" :emot-parrot:

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Which coach has he out-coached in the playoffs? Not Julien. Not Sutter. Not Quenneville. Call it a push with Trotz. Maybe he outcoached Todd McLellan by not having Ben Eager on his team.

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this article is bang on. we would not be a better team without AV

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The message might be falling on deaf ears, but AV gets one more kick at the can. He's earned it.

But, it's not a coincidence that these teams with "new" coaches occasionally win the Stanley Cup.

And, giving the players the room? I prefer the Al Pacino speech from Any Given Sunday. If AV is able to come up with a beauty like that maybe he'll be able to get the players over the hump. Hard to do if he's not in the room.

Sutter got the Kings FIRED UP! He got them believing in themselves.

Is AV doing that?

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TLDR but when it comes down to it.

AV chokes in the playoffs and this team needs someone to jumpstart them and act like a leader when they are tail spining.

Instead of making adjustments during the game, he just lets the "guys figure it out"....

Sorry but AV should have been fired.

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We are aware of fan perception and how it doesn't play a factor in successful pro team management decisions. At least i hope we are.

What does play a factor is coaching performance, and that wasn't really discussed in the op, other than 'AV is not perfect.'

Who cares about fan-related mumbo jumbo when it didn't affect anything related to the actual decision to extend him anyway?

imo the retaining of AV means that Gillis is taking it upon himself to improve the team and is not blaming AV for his teams' failings. My concerns revolve around the lineup more than the coaching. The loss of Ehrhoff and Manny's injury affected the team quite a bit. We relied too heavily on the Sedins and when they started to sputter, so did the team. So far Gillis' sollutions have been 'meh', and that led to our inevitable first-round exit. He has a lot of work to do.

TOML

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We are aware of fan perception and how it doesn't play a factor in successful pro team management decisions.  At least i hope we are.

What does play a factor is coaching performance, and that wasn't really discussed in the op, other than 'AV is not perfect.'

Who cares about fan-related mumbo jumbo when it didn't affect anything related to the actual decision to extend him anyway?

imo the retaining of AV means that Gillis is taking it upon himself to improve the team and is not blaming AV for his teams' failings.  My concerns revolve around the lineup more than the coaching.  The loss of Ehrhoff and Manny's injury affected the team quite a bit.  We relied too heavily on the Sedins and when they started to sputter, so did the team.  So far Gillis' sollutions have been 'meh', and that led to our inevitable first-round exit.  He has a lot of work to do.

TOML

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I didn't read it all, but I think AV is a good coach who deserves a couple more years. If by the end of the next two we're not seeing any results - then it's time for him to go.

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This statement is absolutely correct!!

We should have scored 9 goals in game 3, 5 goals in game 4, 6 goals in game 6, and 4 goals in game 7 against Boston!!

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that or you know actually back check and play a little D. Lu has to take his share of the blame as does Vigeault, the D the forwards, the guy that rubs them down after the game.

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The thing with AV and winning all these division titles and presidents trophies...it's not like he was coaching a Calgary Flames-esque team that produced beyond their talents...he's got one of the most talented teams in franchise history with an owner willing to spend money and a GM willing to make changes. For three years we've been told we're a top contender for the cup, and he hasn't gotten it done. ANYONE can coach this team to the presidents trophy...there's far too much talent not to. But it's going to take another coach altogether to win it in the playoffs, because AV has zero adjustment abilities when times get tough.

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Playoffs > Regular Season. AV is a regular season coach.

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I didn't read it all, but I think AV is a good coach who deserves a couple more years. If by the end of the next two we're not seeing any results - then it's time for him to go.

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Half full or half empty?

AV is the only Canuck coach to have failed in back to back games to win the Cup. (Games 6 + 7 vs the B's last year.)

I say empty based on his 1 + 6 record in his last 7 playoff games.

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It's not about the number of goals. It was the timing and nature of them last year that has many losing confidence in Lu.

He didn't come up with the timely save and let in too many "soft" goals early or at crucial times. Team confidence was shattered and it was lights out from there.

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The skies were full of clouds and birds, all basking in the glory of the sun.

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Speaking about social psychology terms (and books), it's important to note that Khaneman (Thinking Fast & Slow) and other well documented authors highlight the importance and enormous role that luck and chance play in major events (Canucks' EX: Game 5 Stanchion). They note, that too often we over-attribute the immense and powerful role of luck to skill and that our society is built around an illusion of control and skill in terms of monetary rewards for high paying jobs (they note that Wall Street was essentially a game of Roulette, with some bets--stocks--working out and others falling through).

Nothing really to add, but who knows, maybe if the Canucks were luckier in game 7 last year, teams would be trying to re-model around a finesse and possession game instead of the Bruins rough and tumble mantra(i.e. Canucks' knee-jerk reaction to last years loss by trying to get tougher with players like Kassian).

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