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Roberto Luongo rightful goalie of the Vancouver Canucks


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#31 Nucks4dacup

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:33 AM

The problem with Luongo while numbers don't show it, every year Luongo is getting worst and worst. There is no doubt that Luongo has had playoff melt down in the past. Even this year game 2 against the Kings he didn't give the Canucks the save that the team needed. In comes Schnieder and he plays very well considering 2 out of the 3 were in LA.

Luongo is a good goalie no doubt 30 plus wins in the past 8 years or somehing states that but fact is that Luongo can't handle the pressure of the Canadian market where every action and moved will be talked about. Luongo has done a lot of good for the team by making the Canucks a good place to come for Free Agents. But with that being said what will people mostly remember about the cup finals against Boston the fact he has 2 shuts out or in 3 games he had 18 plus goals against him?

The right thing to do for both sides is to have Luongo traded. Canucks can get some real good value out of Luongo and Luongo has a chance to start over. I credict both goalies for being so mature and not acting bigger than the team, Luongo could have easily became a cancer once he lost his job during the playoffs. And for Cory Schnieder got to give the kid credict for having patience for waiting this long, he could have asked for a traded 3 seasons ago.




ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

He won Olympic Gold on Canadian Ice in front of his home crowd... He didn't choke then... what makes you say he can't handle pressure... lay off dude. Making that save if I remember correctly, off parise when neidermeyer coughed up the puck... that was huge! if luongo let it in, we would have had silver!

WOW!

#32 Nucks4dacup

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:34 AM

I see one detail that has been over looked by many people including the "experts" the fact that the team doen't play for Luo anymore, and it is true, all you have to do is look back to how the team played in front of Luo vs. Schneids in this years play offs. The effort in front of each goalie respectivley was night and day, Luo got no defensive or offensive support, Schneids got both, now if lossing Luo would be the worst thing, why would the team play so bad in front of him?, and if Schneids is not as good as some people have suggested, then why does the team play so well in front of him?
I love Luo but there is something wrong in Canuck land, and it seems to revolve around Luo.
Just my observation




Thank you!
I agree!

#33 komodo1970

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:46 AM

I am fine with either goalie as long as the defense is tooled to acommidate the respective starter.
If Lou stays, I feel a more defensively minded team is necessary. A defense that doesn't pinch so much and forwards that are more reliable with their defensive assignments.
I feel Schneider allows for more free wheeling. He is more athletic than Lou and can be counted on to make the big save more often.

#34 B_a_M

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:50 AM

ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

He won Olympic Gold on Canadian Ice in front of his home crowd... He didn't choke then... what makes you say he can't handle pressure... lay off dude. Making that save if I remember correctly, off parise when neidermeyer coughed up the puck... that was huge! if luongo let it in, we would have had silver!

WOW!


Haha, seriously you want to talk about Olympic ok Luongo played well there. But what about when he is playing the in NHL with the Canucks where they are eliminations games Luongo hardly gives the Canucks a save. Besides the hawks series 2 years ago where he made a save in OT, every other elimation game has been painful to watch. In 4 elimation games how many goals has his given up? I would do quick math for you. In 4 eliminations games (Anahiem, Chicago times 2 and Boston) Luongo has let in 19 goals. That is not even heard of. I don't want to sound Anti Luongo but he doesn't have a good track record at all in the playoffs. I believe it is time to start fresh with Schnieder and see where he can take the Canucks.

Edited by B_a_M, 14 June 2012 - 08:52 AM.


#35 Jägermeister

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:06 AM

I don't really care which goalie we keep, so long as we wait until we actually get a decent offer before we make a deal. I would be ticked if we just sent out one of them for the best offer available this summer and got the short end of the stick. I would be perfectly fine if we keep them both another season if it means we can get a better deal.
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#36 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:07 AM

Oh.. an I like Luongo thread.. soon to be folowed by an I



#37 Cup2013?

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:21 AM

This is why I won't bother with you. Luongo didn't melt down - the team melted down. Sure, he let in some bad goals and lost us a couple of games in each of those series, but Luongo won us his fair share single-handedly as a goalie. The rest of the team didn't come up big when they had to. Just look at Game 7 against Chicago - our team was disgusting in front of him, let up 30+ shots of great quality including a disgusting effort on our powerplay to let Toews get a shot away and tie the game with sloppy defence. If we had lost that game and Luongo didn't make those saves, the Canucks would have not only missed out on the SCF at all, but would have been the focal embarassment of the history of the NHL. Not many teams lose 3-0 up, let alone the Presidents trophy winners against the 8th seed, let alone being bounced by the same time 3 seasons in a row. That would have put us in the record books for all the wrong reasons and we would have seen an overhaul in Vancouver from top to bottom. Instead, Luongo saved this franchise's dignity and name and got us to the final game of the season. Don't even mention Boston - our forwards scored 8 goals, Luongo single-handedly stole us 2 wins we didn't deserve and the other 18 skaters could only really get us 1.


This. Plus one sir.

#38 D-Money

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:27 AM

Well let me ask you this: would you rather have great goalies like Ron Hextall or Curtis Joseph in net for you, or Chris Osgood?

My point is obvious... stats on paper do not matter, clutch playoff performances do ie. Quick, Thomas, Ward, Brodeur, Roy etc. I think it is time for some Canuck fans to take their blinders off (along with their "I'm a true Canuck fan because I stick behind Roberto!") and realize that he is not a clutch performer, hasn't been since he ever stepped foot in a big game crease, and possibly never will be. Schneider is simply a younger, faster, more athletic and level headed goalie. It is time for Nuck Nation to move on from the roller coaster that is Roberto Luongo... unfortunately might I add.


Agree with you 100%

I've been a huge Luongo fan since the day he got here, but it's impossible to deny that he has the habit of flaming out spectacularly.

2008 - Flames out down stretch, we miss playoffs.
2009 - Flames out against Blackhawks
2010 - See above.
2011 - Almost flames out against Hawks a 3rd time, but holds it together. Is an unmitigated disaster for all road games in the final.
2012 - Didn't really get a chance to flame out...but Schneider outplayed him in the small sample size.

Luongo is still a great goalie, but I'm flat-out sick of this roller-coaster ride. When the pressure is on, and a bad goal goes in, it's almost certain that he's going to fall apart.

Edited by D-Money, 14 June 2012 - 09:29 AM.

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#39 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:30 AM

You don't know that. Schneider, although the possibility of him failing is low, has yet to be tested in a full season where he is the starter.


There's never a guarantee but based on what Cory has shown to-date, both talent-wise and mentally/emotionally, the odds are pretty good he will be a top 10 goalie in this league for many years. THe odds are also good that Lu will decline within the next couple years. There are already signs that he can't carry the heavy schedule he once did (slower than usual start; mid-season slump).

Of all the "gambles" MG has taken (Kassian, Ballard, Booth) Cory is the least risky.

#40 D-Money

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:47 AM

It's hard for everybody when we were one win away from winning the cup, but let's not forget it's harder on Luongo for not winning it because he was the one working hard night in, night out on the ice. He knows what it takes to win the cup better than any of us. Cory got 3 chances and he could not save us from LA either. Hockey is a team game. Stop pointing fingers at the goalie.


I don't understand this argument. Schneider's performances were so CLEARLY better. Since we're talking about which goalie should shoulder our franchise for the next 5 years, we'd be flat out retarded not to "point fingers at the goalie" when deciding who to keep.

Let's put it simply: Luongo let in 3 goals, and then 4 goals. Cory let in 1, 1, and 2 - last one was an overtime game, so Cory only let in one goal per 60 minutes. We scored 2 goals in Lu's first two games. With Schneider, that would be enough to win, or at least get to overtime. I know it doesn't always work like that, but with better goaltending, we probably win at least one of the first two, and it's a whole different series.

Schneider is better, cheaper, younger, and was chosen by the coach to start when it mattered most. I don't know how this can even be considered worthy of discussion. Gillis is definitely, 100% keeping Schneider.
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#41 Shift-4

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:51 AM

Yay.........another thread where we get to see everybody acting like twilight fans
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#42 Iron_Gland

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:54 AM

I'm 99% certain that the people who still want Luongo around are the people who purchased Luongo jersey's and want to keep them relevant. I don't see how anyone would not want a fresh start in net with a young, stud goalie that's been coming up through our system.

#43 Nucks4dacup

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:54 AM

Haha, seriously you want to talk about Olympic ok Luongo played well there. But what about when he is playing the in NHL with the Canucks where they are eliminations games Luongo hardly gives the Canucks a save. Besides the hawks series 2 years ago where he made a save in OT, every other elimation game has been painful to watch. In 4 elimation games how many goals has his given up? I would do quick math for you. In 4 eliminations games (Anahiem, Chicago times 2 and Boston) Luongo has let in 19 goals. That is not even heard of. I don't want to sound Anti Luongo but he doesn't have a good track record at all in the playoffs. I believe it is time to start fresh with Schnieder and see where he can take the Canucks.



Did the team show up in Game 7 of the cup finals... That was the last friggin crack at the cup! and what did the team cup with? 0 goals! yea we're really gonna win like that eh.. and yea blame it on luongo... yea he let in 4 goals... were they all his fault? naah not even a chance. 1 or 2 maybe if that.
The guy got 2 shutouts in the finals! heard of before? very unlikely eh! kept the team in the run for the cup!

I see where you're coming from man but I duno man... i guess everyone has a different opinion on everything.

#44 Teen Icarus

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

Does everybody remember Halak ih his last season with the Habs? He played a very similar style to Schneider, and he stole the starting job from Price. However, after about 5 consecutive games, he lost his edge and needed some rest. I think Schneider will be very similar to Halak - a good starter provided he doesn't go over 60 games, plays his best splitting the playing time with another goalie, and a beast in the playoffs.
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#45 17's heart&hustle

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

I see one detail that has been over looked by many people including the "experts" the fact that the team doen't play for Luo anymore, and it is true, all you have to do is look back to how the team played in front of Luo vs. Schneids in this years play offs. The effort in front of each goalie respectivley was night and day, Luo got no defensive or offensive support, Schneids got both, now if lossing Luo would be the worst thing, why would the team play so bad in front of him?, and if Schneids is not as good as some people have suggested, then why does the team play so well in front of him?
I love Luo but there is something wrong in Canuck land, and it seems to revolve around Luo.
Just my observation


Couldn't have said it better myself. Besides the fact that Schneids has more upside, be it skill, athleticism or emotional control; I think this is the biggest factor that is commonly over looked by everybody. It is a team game right, so go with the goalie that the TEAM plays best in front of, and that is Schneider

#46 VMR

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:19 AM

I see one detail that has been over looked by many people including the "experts" the fact that the team doen't play for Luo anymore, and it is true, all you have to do is look back to how the team played in front of Luo vs. Schneids in this years play offs. The effort in front of each goalie respectivley was night and day, Luo got no defensive or offensive support, Schneids got both, now if lossing Luo would be the worst thing, why would the team play so bad in front of him?, and if Schneids is not as good as some people have suggested, then why does the team play so well in front of him?
I love Luo but there is something wrong in Canuck land, and it seems to revolve around Luo.
Just my observation



Better offense in front of Schneids? didn't we lose the series? I will give you that the team plays tighter (better) defensively in front of Schneids. Did you ever think they feel the need to?

To say they do not play for Luo is a sad statement. Did you ever think that they play more open in front of him?

Listen, I think Schneids is a good Goalie and I think he will be strong for us or anyone he plays for. I am a bit perplexed as to why all the hate and anger is on Luo. Luo has done a lot here and I feel he can do more here. I don't think it's time for him to go.
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#47 smurf47

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:27 AM

The reason that the Canucks play better in front of him is because Schneids makes it easier to play in front. He directs rebounds to safer spots, smothers rebounds, corrals loose pucks., All things Lou has trouble with. When your goalie is giving you, as a defensman, better situations, of course it will appear that you are playing better in front of him. When your goalie makes big saves, bails you out, of course you respond to that! Lou has trouble with all the above. As an example, count how many times Lou dropped the puck from his trapper or lost his stick, then compare that to Schneider!!! Point made !!! Lou is no longer the go to guy, management dictated that in the playoffs by stating they were going with the netminder who gave them the best chance to win. A powerful statement, that has set the tone for the future.

#48 D-Money

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

Yay.........another thread where we get to see everybody acting like twilight fans

Why do you try to turn every thread into a discussion about Twilight?


Shift-4: Closeted Twilight fan.
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#49 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

Does everybody remember Halak ih his last season with the Habs? He played a very similar style to Schneider, and he stole the starting job from Price. However, after about 5 consecutive games, he lost his edge and needed some rest. I think Schneider will be very similar to Halak - a good starter provided he doesn't go over 60 games, plays his best splitting the playing time with another goalie, and a beast in the playoffs.



Glad you think so but this is total subjective opinion. You have no idea how Cory wil perform.

Cory's style is based on positional saves. This requires less athleticism and reactionary saves than Lu. Technically, such a style is less draining and tehrefore should allow for such a goalie to play more games with less fatigue.

Lu had a horrible start this year and a mid-season slump so...of all the games he played, how many did he play well in? Maybe his style is starting to take a toll and at his age, he can't carry 60 games any more?

#50 Cup2013?

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:37 AM

Haha, seriously you want to talk about Olympic ok Luongo played well there. But what about when he is playing the in NHL with the Canucks where they are eliminations games Luongo hardly gives the Canucks a save. Besides the hawks series 2 years ago where he made a save in OT, every other elimation game has been painful to watch. In 4 elimation games how many goals has his given up? I would do quick math for you. In 4 eliminations games (Anahiem, Chicago times 2 and Boston) Luongo has let in 19 goals. That is not even heard of. I don't want to sound Anti Luongo but he doesn't have a good track record at all in the playoffs. I believe it is time to start fresh with Schnieder and see where he can take the Canucks.


This post made me laugh.

I like how you pick 4 elimation games the Canucks lost.

In overall elimation games WHERE Canucks can be eliminated Luongo is 3-4. In these 7 games he has let in 21 goals (not very impressive but average). The players in front of him scored 17.

Now look at the 4 losses. Which you have highlighted as a low point for Luongo and as a basis as to why he can't handle big game pressure.

He allowed 18 goals in those 4 games. Which yes is not a very good stat for a goalie that is 'elite'. However the team in front of him only scored 7 goals in those 4 games. 5 of which came in one game!

Hard to win games when you arent scoring more goals then the other team.

So is it Roberto? Partly so. But he can't be labelled a 'choke artist' when those in front of him are not doing there jobs.

For the record. In all time elimination games Roberto's record is:

7-4. Some 'choke-artist'.

#51 John Garret's moustache

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:37 AM

Schneider all the way. It's gotten to the point for me that I feel exponentially more comfortable with Schneider in net as opposed to Luongo.
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#52 Canucklehead420

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:38 AM

You don't know that for a fact if Losing Luongo would be the worst thing now do you? Like I said before not many Goaltenders can play into their 40's like Brodeur. But guys like you make excuses as to why Schnieder won't get us there either. Not proven, Not enough experience , or whatever you said in the past but Goaltenders like Roy, Dryden, and Broduer have proven in their first year if given the opportunity can lead you to the conference finals or even winning the cup with only a half season or less under their belts. Again I can make the same arguments too.
Can we make those same statements 6 years ago DownUnda that we put our faith on a goaltender in Luongo who hasn't played on a winning team or even a sniff of the playoffs before coming here? Wasn't that a gamble 6 years ago when we still had Cloutier under Contract with us? At least Dan had playoff experience. Wasn't Dan called a choke artist too?
Montreal took a gamble on Dryden with 6 games under his belt ,and he took them to the cup. Broduer and Roy only had 47 under their belt with NJ and Montreal respectively and they took them deep into the playoffs. So what are you going to say to us if your wrong about Schnieder? Don't get me wrong here. I do understand what your saying. But to say it would be a mistake without giving Cory a chance to see how he handles things is a little prematured!
But overall I know its a team game. Not one player can lead us to the cup nor one player losses it for the team.


yeah some of the best to ever play the game did it so its a lock cory will do it right?

#53 Hockey!?

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

The reason that the Canucks play better in front of him is because Schneids makes it easier to play in front. He directs rebounds to safer spots, smothers rebounds, corrals loose pucks., All things Lou has trouble with. When your goalie is giving you, as a defensman, better situations, of course it will appear that you are playing better in front of him. When your goalie makes big saves, bails you out, of course you respond to that! Lou has trouble with all the above. As an example, count how many times Lou dropped the puck from his trapper or lost his stick, then compare that to Schneider!!! Point made !!! Lou is no longer the go to guy, management dictated that in the playoffs by stating they were going with the netminder who gave them the best chance to win. A powerful statement, that has set the tone for the future.


I was waiting for you to chime in. They changed net minders not because Luongo was performing poorly, it was to shake up the team. It would seem that in your forty plus years of following the sport, you've learnt nothing. I worry for those who heed your advice. It's hilarious that you consider yourself an expert in the position.

Edit: Sorry, forty-three years experience

.....thats 43 yrs of experience....for the record...idiot !!


Edited by Hockey!?, 14 June 2012 - 10:44 AM.

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#54 mofans

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:40 AM

The smartest move for the Franchise, is to keep both goalies. We have a great Team here. Fan support, and a little friendlier Vancouver Media, would go a long way in the "Mental" atmosphere, aspect,of the whole Team, not just Luongo's. I don't care who you are, negativity and constant harping gets to you. Newsflash. Hockey Players are Human too. Great Posts here , by the way.

#55 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

yeah some of the best to ever play the game did it so its a lock cory will do it right?


I hope folks that think like you aren't in management positions requiring risk/reward analysis and hard decisions.


After 2 years of watching Cory perform, how he prepares, how he handles adversity etc, he has shown all the right signs that he will be a top goalie. Nucks management sees this and has a dilemma. THey have to assess all the facts and history of both goalies and make a "tough decision". They did that in this year's playoffs. IN an absolute pressure-cooker position with all the controversy around Cory starting, Cory was the best player on the ice for the Nucks 3 games straight and handled the media likea seasoned pro.

No-one knows for sure how Cory or Lu will perform going forward. All kinds of coulds and shoulds and maybes involved in trying to predict the future. Based on stats and observations to-date. Management has determined that Cory has better potential long-term than Lu. Now they have to figure out whether or not they can be the benefactors of developing Cory through making him their starter, or if they have to trade him and get another key piece.

Not an easy task for MG and management but it's what they get paid for. Whatever happens, I hope it takes the team to the holy grail.

#56 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

Trading either or keeping both are all decent options. We are in a good position with goaltending no matter what. Cheers.


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#57 Canucklehead420

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:49 AM

Schneider has played more than 40 games a grand total of 3 times. that includes the NHL, AHL, College, and high school. Lu has proven many times he can play 60+ games and put up stellar numbers on a reagular basis. I know Schneids been successful at every level but it makes me a little uneasy to think of him playing 60+ games every season.

On the other hand Scheids is 7 years younger. I would not want to be the one to make this decision. Either way we could get bit in the a$$ but we need the assets one of these premier goalies would fetch.

#58 Canucklehead420

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:53 AM

I hope folks that think like you aren't in management positions requiring risk/reward analysis and hard decisions.


After 2 years of watching Cory perform, how he prepares, how he handles adversity etc, he has shown all the right signs that he will be a top goalie. Nucks management sees this and has a dilemma. THey have to assess all the facts and history of both goalies and make a "tough decision". They did that in this year's playoffs. IN an absolute pressure-cooker position with all the controversy around Cory starting, Cory was the best player on the ice for the Nucks 3 games straight and handled the media likea seasoned pro.

No-one knows for sure how Cory or Lu will perform going forward. All kinds of coulds and shoulds and maybes involved in trying to predict the future. Based on stats and observations to-date. Management has determined that Cory has better potential long-term than Lu. Now they have to figure out whether or not they can be the benefactors of developing Cory through making him their starter, or if they have to trade him and get another key piece.

Not an easy task for MG and management but it's what they get paid for. Whatever happens, I hope it takes the team to the holy grail.


a top goalie today or in the future? perhaps. to place him in the same breath as Roy and Dryden and the best all time at this point in his career is beyond rediculous. right back at ya as to i hope management doesnt think like you

#59 smurf47

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

This will all be resolved by July 1st, maybe even by June 22nd, then all this speculation will be put to rest!!

#60 DIBdaQUIB

DIBdaQUIB

    Canucks Second-Line

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 10:56 AM

a top goalie today or in the future? perhaps. to place him in the same breath as Roy and Dryden and the best all time at this point in his career is beyond rediculous. right back at ya as to i hope management doesnt think like you


You must be confused. I never put him in the category of Dryden or Roy. Neither do I put Lu in that category.

Perhaps you were thinking of someone else's post?

Edited by DIBdaQUIB, 14 June 2012 - 10:56 AM.





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