pianoman13 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Schneider has the exact same defense in front of him, and he still manages to outplay Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoman13 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Tell the truth, you didn't include the past two seasons because of how bad Lou was and what it did to his record, but let me help you: 2011-2012 Shots against 42 Goals against 17 Save % .595 W6 L6 2010-2011 Shots against 26 Goals against 12 Save % .538 W3 L5 Convenient to ignore facts when they don't support your argument. I looked them up where everybody looks them up - nhl.com. You think someone wouldn't look them up and you could get away with pulling a fast one? Nice try back at ya. By the way: Schneider: Career: Shots against 11 Goals against 3 Save % .727 W3 L1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The defence plays tighter in front of Schneider. The canucks on average score about a goal a game less when Schneider is playing. Now at first that might make Schneider look even better because he was winning games with less offensive support, but lets look at why the Canucks were scoring less..... because they were playing more defensively! I don't know if it is because they have less faith in Schneider and feel that they need to protect him, or maybe his style if goaltending is more suited to that (like quick, who is very positional). It's something to think about at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurrows14 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 This!!!!... And also, I will pose a question to you all who have ever played hockey at a competitive level: have you ever played on a team with a goalie that lets in weak a$$ goals? When it is a regular occurrence, as it is with Luongo, it deflates a team (with almost every goal) in a way that is next to impossible to recover from, hence, the reason why the team plays better in front of Schneiderman. He simply does not let in the weak a$$ goals; thus, the team does not deflate when he lets in a goal. If Schneider were to let in weak a$$ goals over and over again, to the point of being embarrassed when having to watch it on Sportsnet and TSN where it is analyzed and mocked at by the entire sports analyst crew and opposing teams, and their fans, the team would subsequently begin to lose faith in him and he will be the one asking for a trade. Let's just hope he doesn't throw his team under the bus as an excuse like Luongo did. On a side note, yet relevant... does anyone remember last years game (can't remember which one) against San Jose when Luongo sent the puck right to Joe Thornton and Joe scored? What was Lou's response? "My stick was broken" I mean COMMON!!!!! OWN UP TO IT!!!!!!! See my points to go with the referenced posters' points? Me and KSniper88 know what's up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABurrows14 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I love the offseason. Does the Canucks defense give up chances yea but I wouldn't say it is any more than another other team, and maybe you put the blame on bowness as he is the defensive coach for the Canucks. The rule is that goalies are only suppose to make one save then the defense cleans it up. But time to time you are going have to make 2 or 3 extra saves it will happen. I can see if Luongo wasn't going be traded if Gillis fired AV. But Av pretty much said I have no confidents in and went with Schnieder 3 staight games 2 of them being elimation games. Now I am hearing that the D gives up more scoring chances against Luongo than Schnieder which I think is ridiculous. The team still gives up 2 on1 against Schnieder the only difference is that and it has been said before is that Schnieders is technally better and rarely put himself in a bad position unlike Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have said this before....the team plays different in front of Schneider than Luongo. They "baby" Schneider and take chances with Luongo. Regular season - no problem as other teams aren't going all out so Luongo can make the save - but come playoff time, everyone is playing 100% and if you give up chances you will get scored against. Is it Luongo's or Schneider's fault for the way the team plays in front of them? Nope. But I wonder, if Luongo leaves, if the team will continue to "baby" Schneider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I have said this before....the team plays different in front of Schneider than Luongo. They "baby" Schneider and take chances with Luongo. Regular season - no problem as other teams aren't going all out so Luongo can make the save - but come playoff time, everyone is playing 100% and if you give up chances you will get scored against. Is it Luongo's or Schneider's fault for the way the team plays in front of them? Nope. But I wonder, if Luongo leaves, if the team will continue to "baby" Schneider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The team plays better in front of Schneider, when he's in net there isn't anywhere near as many oddman rushes from the other team because the defense for whatever reason doesn't jump up into the play when Schneider is back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justsayin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Schneider has the exact same defense in front of him, and he still manages to outplay Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The way I see it, you are only a choke if you fail ALL or MOST of the big games. Luongo has won, even single-handedly, many big games. Therefore, we can establish a theory that Luongo is not actually a choke, but there is an outside factor that causes these breakdowns. Defensive support is possibly the most important thing a goaltender needs to be successful. The NHL nowadays have so much talent that you will see back-door saucer passes and slap-pass tip-ins night in and night out. Not only that, but goaltending has evolved into more of a positional game than a reactional style. If you don't believe me look at the size of the pads now and 20 years ago. Luongo is fine in the regular season, sure. That's not because he's only good in the regular season, but it's because his D plays the right way and isolates many of the point-blank chances (ie. rebounds). The Canucks D do this job very well, and though it's not tangibly provable, I and a number of other CDC'ers have come to notice the strange difference in effort in the Canuck players when Schneider plays (perhaps this inflates his numbers). So everything is good, up until April. What happens? Luongo doesn't let in 4 or 5 every game. He has some insane games and some horrible games. Sometimes he lets in 1 or posts a shutout while sometimes he posts a stinker with 4 or more. Why does this happen? Unless you are actually suggesting that the April weather suddenly destroys his consistency, there is no other plausible explanation other than the theory that the defence COMPLETELY changes their game. This is in fact provable. You will notice that the Canucks team vamp up their physicality by a tremendous amount, so much that sometimes the hit is prioritized over simple defensive plays. This is specific to players such as Bieksa or Edler since they are big-minute eaters and love to hit. What will happen then is that because the Canucks D change their game and how they operate, the rhythm completely breaks for Luongo. Suddenly there are ridiculous point-blank chances appearing all around him: These highlight-reel saves are often from the playoffs, because Luongo is forced into these situations. The D are often found not marking key players who are WIDE open, so Luongo has to bail them out. When he gets them, he posts those miniscule numbers. When he doesn't, the GAA climbs up. And, when Luongo's got the defensive support (Burrows checking MacDonald), he makes the saves. Now obviously I took a small sample of the many videos out there, but as you can see, the main point I'm trying to make is that in the playoffs, the defence leave holes and gaps that normally are covered in the regular season. This creates make or break chances that Luongo must deal with almost alone. I also feel that Schneider's playoff numbers are inflated partly because of tighter defensive coverage provided by the team. It's not like Schneider is often beat on a goal where the defense hangs him out to dry, because the defence plays tighter when he's in goal. Conspiracy? Maybe, but the theory is there. Thoughts? Edit: Before the haters come in to accuse me of trying to find an excuse for Luongo, I would like to say that doing so would prove to me that you cannot find an appropriate counter to the theory that the D is in fact partly responsible for the breakdowns. Think about that before simply posting "QQ Luongo sucks!!1!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Canuckian Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 What? Which reputation are we talking about? The reputation for having great regular seasons while being mediocre in shootouts? Or the reputation for getting lit up like a christmas tree during elimination games in the playoffs? Nevermind, that's all the defense's fault anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Clearly, it's not the reputation *we* have of Luongo. The players see way more than we ever will. They know when they've f*d up, they know when Lu has bailed them out. I guarantee you that we don't know even a quarter of the times a defender knows he's made a mistake, and Lu has bailed him out. So the reputation I'm talking about is the one that Luongo has from his teammates, which we can only speculate. For all we know, maybe Schneider has already supplanted Luongo in that regard. We can speculate all day how a team plays with the different goalies, and why. We can speculate how other teams see us when they are staring down at #1 or #35 in the other crease (it seems fans of other teams prefer us to play Luongo). And don't forget that Luongo is considered one of the most overrated players in the NHL today (as voted by players... yes there's proof out there). At the end of the day, I hope we keep Schneider, but will accept a trade if it gets us a far better return, but we (as a fanbase) have to be ready for any scenario for these two, including sticking with Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RO8!! Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Idiot post from a bandwagoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 If an ex NHL Canuck player such as Gary Valk can see how the team plays a more defensive game infront of Cory, then they do infront of Luongo, and he said he doesn't understand why that is, but if he can see it WHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE SEE IT. I think Gary has more credentials then 80% of the people on here, and if he can come out and say I don't know why it is, but the team seems to play a much more tighter defensive game and not take as many risks/gambles when Cory is net, then you know it's right if Gary can even see it and notice it. And if you still are one of those guys who are like oh who cares what Gary says he doesn't even know what he's talking about, NO you don't know what your talking about, because this guy actually played in the NHL and you didn't so you don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The excuses for Luongo's meltdowns continue. "Not enough games" "Slow Octobers" "Bad Defense" "Too many games, needs rest for playoffs". If Luongo wants to be an elite goaltender, he needs to play through the poor defense. If our defense was amazing, there simply is no reason to keep Luongo. Look at Niemi, he won the cup with a stacked defensive group. Even if your defense is poor, you shouldn't be giving 7-8 goals a game in the playoffs. Last I checked, Schneider played for the same team. People keep faulting him for game 6 against Chicago where he came out to play the puck and gave up 2 goals. He made mistakes and only gave up 2. Luongo gives up 7+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm085 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 How many cups has Brodeur won?? Oh, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm085 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 The excuses for Luongo's meltdowns continue. "Not enough games" "Slow Octobers" "Bad Defense" "Too many games, needs rest for playoffs". If Luongo wants to be an elite goaltender, he needs to play through the poor defense. If our defense was amazing, there simply is no reason to keep Luongo. Look at Niemi, he won the cup with a stacked defensive group. Even if your defense is poor, you shouldn't be giving 7-8 goals a game in the playoffs. Last I checked, Schneider played for the same team. People keep faulting him for game 6 against Chicago where he came out to play the puck and gave up 3 goals. He made mistakes and only gave up 3. Luongo gives up 7+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 fixed, he also gave up 3 against Boston in January same amount Luongo did against Boston in game 7 of the finals. The difference is the team scored 4 goals for Schneider and 0 for Luongo, they may have the "same team" in front of them but they sure as hell played alot better in front of Schneider in January than Luongo in the finals against Boston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm085 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 If it was Luongo i'm sure you would find a way to make it one so let's just say it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 fixed, he also gave up 3 against Boston in January same amount Luongo did against Boston in game 7 of the finals. The difference is the team scored 4 goals for Schneider and 0 for Luongo, they may have the "same team" in front of them but they sure as hell played alot better in front of Schneider in January than Luongo in the finals against Boston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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