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Defense = Major Cause of So-called Luongo Breakdowns


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#31 canuck cole

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:59 PM

The team plays better in front of Schneider, when he's in net there isn't anywhere near as many oddman rushes from the other team because the defense for whatever reason doesn't jump up into the play when Schneider is back there.


Are you saying that's a bad thing?

#32 nuck nit

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 05:59 PM

Lou has played at superstar status levels many times in his career.

That cannot be conjured up and wishing the same upon a newbie goalie with little to no track record is fantasy.

They highlighted Cory in the LA series,now get a huge ,top 2 d man for him and let's roll with it.

#33 Watermelons

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:00 PM

Your reasoning is good but not good enough, because you said shootouts are not part of playoffs but how bout the penalty on Brown that led to a penalty shot which Schneider saved and kept the team in the game. These kind of clutch important saves is what Luongo is lacking. You actually think that Lu would have saved that? Lastly shootouts in regular season are points aren't they which can effect the playoff seedings for all teams. See my point? Yes defensive error is factor and is unavoidable in sports but when a younger more talented goalie like Schneider is in net and is able to let in less goals compared to Luongo in those situations. It gives the team a better chance. See my point?


What about Schneider's not so clutch performance against Chicago last year? He not only let in the goal, but also got a cramp and left the game....Don't even start about that being happening a year ago because all the Luongo haters out there constantly mention Boston and Chicago from last year....

I'm not saying that Luongo is a better choice because I (nor anyone else on CDC) can predict the future, but I just want to state both sides of the issue...

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#34 KSniper88

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

Wow. Hey Ksnippet, guess what? The defense is not good enough. Luongo has brought this club from semi-ok to being a contender year in, year out.

Even when Naslund and Bertuzzi were here, Cloutier was way to hot and cold.

Shootouts? Luongo stoned Detroit during the mid season game when the Canucks snapped their winning streak.

Just a thought. Before you go flapping those useless gums of yours, know what you speak of. Otherwise you're just a bag of hot air. Which you are.

Wow really one game against detroit eh, didn't know buddy. Stop making the defense as scapegoat just to protect Luongo. All your proving is your lame and weak in counteragruments you phoney. Your probably one of thos kids that love luongo because he gave you a autograph you lame naive child.

#35 Watermelons

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:07 PM

Wow really one game against detroit eh, didn't know buddy. Stop making the defense as scapegoat just to protect Luongo. All your proving is your lame and weak in counteragruments you phoney. Your probably one of thos kids that love luongo because he gave you a autograph you lame naive child.


And you might be one of those kids that love Schneider because he gave you an autograph.... <_<

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#36 KSniper88

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:08 PM

What about Schneider's not so clutch performance against Chicago last year? He not only let in the goal, but also got a cramp and left the game....Don't even start about that being happening a year ago because all the Luongo haters out there constantly mention Boston and Chicago from last year....

I'm not saying that Luongo is a better choice because I (nor anyone else on CDC) can predict the future, but I just want to state both sides of the issue...

It's funny, your telling me not to mention Luongo's last season breakdown, but your telling me Schnieders last season shootut? LOL is all I can say buddy

#37 Tm085

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

how bout the penalty on Brown that led to a penalty shot which Schneider saved and kept the team in the game. These kind of clutch important saves is what Luongo is lacking. You actually think that Lu would have saved that?


he's actually shown a few times he's more than capable of making big saves





#38 KSniper88

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

And you might be one of those kids that love Schneider because he gave you an autograph.... <_<

How about we talk about this seasons playoff performance then for both goalies.

Edited by KSniper88, 14 June 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#39 Watermelons

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

It's funny, your telling me not to mention Luongo's last season breakdown, but your telling me Schnieders last season shootut? LOL is all I can say buddy


I'm telling you to not ignore the fact that Schneider wasn't exactly clutch in the playoffs last year...and since all the Luongo haters out there mention that "Oh that was last year and Schneider is different now"....I never once said to ignore Luongo's poor performance in certain playoff games last year

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#40 -canuckslife-

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

Ya sure this thread is a joke. How can you blame the defense for everything? How bout Lu in shooutouts? Is that the canucks players taking the shootouts fault? lol. Your reasoning is a complete joke, and is only seen as a mere effort to try to keep overrated Luongo. Just stop before you embarass yourself.

Lu thinking he is an elite when he is not= Major Cause of So-called Luongo Breakdowns


I don't think he's talking about shootouts here. Luongo can win games for us. For example, we're badly outshot in 2011 Game 5 vs the Sharks which as you probably remember, was won in double overtime (lucky bounce too). But he can't do it game after game. Defense has to help to, along with scoring.
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#41 Watermelons

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

How about we talk about this seasons playoff performance then for both goalies.


Luongo played good but Schneider played better...although I believe that the team played better in front of Schneider it is a fact that Schneider outplayed Luongo in these playoffs

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#42 Tm085

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:12 PM

How about we talk about this seasons playoff performance then for both goalies.


sure, we lost 2 games with both of them. Schneider played better but we still lost so what does it matter

Goaltending was not why we lost to the Kings this year

Edited by Tm085, 14 June 2012 - 06:12 PM.


#43 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:17 PM

I've been saying this all along. Our defence is disgusting. Even our so called "stars" like Bieksa and Edler are brutal in their own zone and have been for a long time. Hamhuis and Salo are our only sensible defencemen. When you look at cup winners like the Kings and Bruins, all of their defencemen are solid in their own zone and they play a defence-first system.

Instead, our bonehead coaches want to play an offense-first system, starting from our defence which ends up in a lot of bad pinches, bad passes and odd-man rushes against our goalies. We are pretty much leaving them hung out to dry, which is why its unfair to blame much on our goalies let alone compare them to guys like Thomas and Quick who have their defence making life easy for them.

Defence wins championships though, it won one against us last year and it beat us out this year to take the Cup so we need to get on board and get a more physical, shutdown-style of a defence instead.

Yet Schneider is playing behind that same defense and putting up stats that are far superior to Luongo's. that difference in stats has stayed consistant against the good teams, against the bad teams, throughout the regular season and straight into the playoffs. At some point you have to admit that there just might be a reason for it.

#44 TheWheeler

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:31 PM


Edited by TheWheeler, 14 June 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#45 King_Canuckian

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:31 PM

Maybe Schneider has better numbers because psychologically, the players have more confidence in Luongo. Hear me out - with Luongo in goal, the defense has that mindset that they can take a few more chances, of course high-risk, high-reward, and with risk, there is the chance that the risk does not pan out.

I fully agree that the defense plays better with Schneider in goal, but that's not as much hanging Luongo out to dry as it is that they feel he will make that save when needed. Reputations do that sometimes.

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#46 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:47 PM

He really needs to stop going on his belly.

Here's a nice example:


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#47 DollarAndADream

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:53 PM

That's the same way I see it. Most of the time there are breakdowns, it is our defense. The other team shouldn't even have those chances in the first place.

The Canucks don't really need any offensive D, just defensive D. They need a big mean defender, like Weber.

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#48 TheWheeler

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 06:56 PM

Get a PHYSICAL, bigger right handed D-man to play with Edler and so many of our defensive woes will vanish.

#49 Canuckaidian

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:18 PM

Lu lets in a lot of weak goals in the playoffs, sure the D needs improvement but his job is to stop pucks. The team plays better in front of Schneider because they have more confidence with him in goal...plain and simple. They can say all they want about how great Lu is, talk is cheap...actions speak volumes. The team is tentative and plays afraid in front of Lu when the games matter, this is a different team with schneids in net...a better team.


If the team plays better when Schneider is playing it means they have less confidence in him. They try to limit oppurtunites. When Luongo plays they think he'll bail them out every time. Luongo got nominated for the hart trophy for league MVP, he made this team a contender before him the Canucks were supposed to be first or second round knockouts. With him the expectations from everyone is cup or bust.

#50 Kass9

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:28 PM

Sure the D wasn't that great, but we also had the same D for Schneids, so there's no excuse for Luongo having worse numbers.

#51 Hank4Hart

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:46 PM

I totally agree about him going onto his belly but look at the defence there...DISGUSTING
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#52 Tm085

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:02 PM

He really needs to stop going on his belly.

Here's a nice example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-Gb752V7jo


true he shouldn't have gone down on his belly, neither should have the 3 Canucks in front of the net.....that was horrible all around.

Brodeur does that bellyflop move as well



#53 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:07 PM

Your reasoning is good but not good enough, because you said shootouts are not part of playoffs but how bout the penalty on Brown that led to a penalty shot which Schneider saved and kept the team in the game. These kind of clutch important saves is what Luongo is lacking. You actually think that Lu would have saved that? Lastly shootouts in regular season are points aren't they which can effect the playoff seedings for all teams. See my point? Yes defensive error is factor and is unavoidable in sports but when a younger more talented goalie like Schneider is in net and is able to let in less goals compared to Luongo in those situations. It gives the team a better chance. See my point?


Not the same situation but close enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQGvPaAg7o

Dude,

Really? So here's your logic

1. In the regular season the defense plays well for both goalies (except when Lou is in net in Oct and Nov I'm sure you'd say).
2. In the playoffs the VERY SAME players, stop doing what they were doing because what, they hate Lou?
3. The very same players decide, hey lets play smart in front of Schnieds in the regular season and the playoffs.

Dude the only moving part in your argument is Lou's play...he's the variable...learn simple logic.

WOW just wow...why can't people just accept that Lou, while a good goalie is not an elite goalie. Did you hear Kypreos on Sportsnet the other night, not to say he's an expert but he's alot closer than you or I given he played the game at the NHL level..even he said Luongo will never win a cup.

Its his composure, his ability to shut out the mental issues thats the problem, not the defense in front of him, because its the same defence in front of Schnieder and he is being outplayed by Schnieder. Simple.


Uh no, not my logic.

1. The D plays fine in the reg. season because extra physicality is not needed (Lu just sucks in Oct there's no denying)
2. Yes, in a way, the D become more physical and yes it's true, the players play a tighter defensive game in front of Schneider NOT because they like him more but because he's the backup, so you play more defensively.
3. Continuation of point 2

Did you seriously just make me repeat my OP?

Edited by LordofBrussels, 14 June 2012 - 08:14 PM.

Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#54 Tm085

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:11 PM

Not the same situation but close enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQGvPaAg7o


lol i already posted that and 2 others responding to that same comment

#55 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:17 PM

Brodeur can do whatever he wants, he's Marty ****** Brodeur.

#56 Nino

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:27 PM

Same defense as Cory, it's time for the Lou lovers to stop making crap topics

#57 smurf47

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:34 PM

Some of these kids must be on crack. Second piciture shows Luongo out of position, on his ass, facing the wrong way and making a save. Hardly recommended form !! Luongo gets beat because of poor technique and positional play. Those who conyinually blame the defense for all oh his woes know nothing about goaltending. Schneider plays better behind the same defense because he makes life easier for the d'men. He controls and directs rebounds, smothers loose pucks, holds onto the puck in his glove and hangs onto his stick better, and makes more opportune saves. He seals off the bottom of the net better on scrambles. All in all, a far better goalie than Lou is now....if you can;t see any of this , I'll enroll you in goaltending 101 because obviously you know squat about the position.

#58 farcus

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:58 PM

wow this guy does not know hockey. defense? isn't that the same defense that plays in front of schiender? why is schiender numbers better in the reg season and playoffs?

#59 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:07 PM

Maybe Schneider has better numbers because psychologically, the players have more confidence in Luongo. Hear me out - with Luongo in goal, the defense has that mindset that they can take a few more chances, of course high-risk, high-reward, and with risk, there is the chance that the risk does not pan out.

I fully agree that the defense plays better with Schneider in goal, but that's not as much hanging Luongo out to dry as it is that they feel he will make that save when needed. Reputations do that sometimes.


Maybe but I believe it is because the team plays looser and with more confidence with Cory in net which makes them better. If you are playing with the knowledge that one mistake and it's in your net, you tense up, don't move as well and tend to make mistakes.

How the team plays different in front of the two goalies( or at least seems to) does speak to their confidence level. One of us is likely right. Only the players know which one. Judging by AV's decision to go with Cory, it looks like it might be me. :bigblush:

#60 B_a_M

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 09:07 PM

I love the offseason. Does the Canucks defense give up chances yea but I wouldn't say it is any more than another other team, and maybe you put the blame on bowness as he is the defensive coach for the Canucks. The rule is that goalies are only suppose to make one save then the defense cleans it up. But time to time you are going have to make 2 or 3 extra saves it will happen. I can see if Luongo wasn't going be traded if Gillis fired AV. But Av pretty much said I have no confidents in and went with Schnieder 3 staight games 2 of them being elimation games.

Now I am hearing that the D gives up more scoring chances against Luongo than Schnieder which I think is ridiculous. The team still gives up 2 on1 against Schnieder the only difference is that and it has been said before is that Schnieders is technally better and rarely put himself in a bad position unlike Luongo.




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