EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I agree with this. I am a little concerned about the patient being unable to give consent or the consent they gave may not be under the exact same conditions as they are in now at the hospital. Are there any specific rules the doctors have to sign off on as well as the family ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I agree with this. I am a little concerned about the patient being unable to give consent or the consent they gave may not be under the exact same conditions as they are in now at the hospital. Are there any specific rules the doctors have to sign off on as well as the family ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 “Think of all those ages through which men have had the courage to die, and then remember that we have actually fallen to talking about having the courage to live.” - G.K. Chesterton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Pope Benedict to Terminally Ill: Suck it Up! By Austin Cline, About.com GuideSeptember 21, 2008 Pope Benedict XVI in Lourdes, France September 15, 2008 Photo: Carsten Koall/Getty Images Vatican opposition to any form of euthanasia necessarily means that the terminally ill are supposed to simply accept whatever happens to them — they aren't permitted to hasten death in any way or for any reason. It's not too common, though, for Catholic leaders to bluntly state to the terminally ill: you'll die when God wants you to die and in as much pain and suffering as God wants you to endure, not a second sooner. That was the message from Pope Benedict XVI during an open-air mass at Lourdes, a site popular among Catholics who believe that they can be healed through divine intervention rather than through scientific medicine. I wonder how much of a money-maker this site is for the Catholic Church because of how much is spent by the desperate and of course by curious tourists, but thus far no one has regrown a limb or experienced any other clear miracles.{C} In his homily, the pope said the ill should pray to find "the grace to accept, without fear or bitterness, to leave this world at the hour chosen by God." The Vatican vehemently maintains that life must continue to its natural end. ...The pope urged the ailing to remember that "dignity never abandons the sick person." "Unfortunately we know only too well: the endurance of suffering can upset life's most stable equilibrium, it can shake the firmest foundations of confidence, and sometimes even leads people to despair of the meaning and value of life," the pope said. "There are struggles that we cannot sustain alone, without the help of divine grace," he said. Source: Breitbart It would probably help to remember that while people today tend to assume that physical pain is evil in itself, traditional Catholic doctrine teaches that pain can have important spiritual, emotional, psychological and even physical benefits for the person in question. Whereas we tend to think of pain in a medical context, which is to say a sign of damage which needs to be repaired, there are other "models" of pain which treat it as something very different. Most of these models of pain can be found in religion, but there are a couple of secular contexts in which we can find remnants of the idea that pain can be good — for example, in athletics (“no pain, no gain”) and some initiation rites. In most models of pain, there has to be a community of people involved. It's never just a single person alone with their pain; there must also be a means for that person to share what they have learned or experienced so that an entire community can benefit. According to Ariel Glucklich in her book Sacred Pain: Hurting the Body for the Sake of the Soul, the experience of pain and suffering creates an altered state of consciousness in which a person’s own sense of “self” becomes diminished. As a result, a new “presence” can enter, and this presence can create stronger bonds to a religious community or even “God.” It's probably clear that all of this can be important in a religious community; even if you think it's daft, from a religious perspective it can make a lot of sense. The problem is, though, that it doesn't necessarily make much sense or have to be very important outside religious communities. This is critical because if this religious model of pain plays any role in the efforts to ban euthanasia, then what we have is an effort to impose religious categories and perspectives on secular matters. Individual religious believers are free to find religious meaning in suffering at the end of life, but they can't prevent non-believers from ending their suffering sooner on the assumption that they should be finding meaning or God in their pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Good post. Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 The pope is just another actor working on behalf of the predominant scourge and blight on humanity currently, in order to keep people away from an informed life of self-determination. People should see this and wake up from their religious comas. Euthanasia is humane.....suffering on the basis of man-made supernatural interpretive dogma, is not. Free yourself from religion, free yourself from unnecessary suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Pope Benedict to Terminally Ill: Suck it Up! By Austin Cline, About.com GuideSeptember 21, 2008 Pope Benedict XVI in Lourdes, France September 15, 2008 Photo: Carsten Koall/Getty Images Vatican opposition to any form of euthanasia necessarily means that the terminally ill are supposed to simply accept whatever happens to them — they aren't permitted to hasten death in any way or for any reason. It's not too common, though, for Catholic leaders to bluntly state to the terminally ill: you'll die when God wants you to die and in as much pain and suffering as God wants you to endure, not a second sooner. That was the message from Pope Benedict XVI during an open-air mass at Lourdes, a site popular among Catholics who believe that they can be healed through divine intervention rather than through scientific medicine. I wonder how much of a money-maker this site is for the Catholic Church because of how much is spent by the desperate and of course by curious tourists, but thus far no one has regrown a limb or experienced any other clear miracles.{C} In his homily, the pope said the ill should pray to find "the grace to accept, without fear or bitterness, to leave this world at the hour chosen by God." The Vatican vehemently maintains that life must continue to its natural end. ...The pope urged the ailing to remember that "dignity never abandons the sick person." "Unfortunately we know only too well: the endurance of suffering can upset life's most stable equilibrium, it can shake the firmest foundations of confidence, and sometimes even leads people to despair of the meaning and value of life," the pope said. "There are struggles that we cannot sustain alone, without the help of divine grace," he said. Source: Breitbart It would probably help to remember that while people today tend to assume that physical pain is evil in itself, traditional Catholic doctrine teaches that pain can have important spiritual, emotional, psychological and even physical benefits for the person in question. Whereas we tend to think of pain in a medical context, which is to say a sign of damage which needs to be repaired, there are other "models" of pain which treat it as something very different. Most of these models of pain can be found in religion, but there are a couple of secular contexts in which we can find remnants of the idea that pain can be good — for example, in athletics (“no pain, no gain”) and some initiation rites. In most models of pain, there has to be a community of people involved. It's never just a single person alone with their pain; there must also be a means for that person to share what they have learned or experienced so that an entire community can benefit. According to Ariel Glucklich in her book Sacred Pain: Hurting the Body for the Sake of the Soul, the experience of pain and suffering creates an altered state of consciousness in which a person’s own sense of “self” becomes diminished. As a result, a new “presence” can enter, and this presence can create stronger bonds to a religious community or even “God.” It's probably clear that all of this can be important in a religious community; even if you think it's daft, from a religious perspective it can make a lot of sense. The problem is, though, that it doesn't necessarily make much sense or have to be very important outside religious communities. This is critical because if this religious model of pain plays any role in the efforts to ban euthanasia, then what we have is an effort to impose religious categories and perspectives on secular matters. Individual religious believers are free to find religious meaning in suffering at the end of life, but they can't prevent non-believers from ending their suffering sooner on the assumption that they should be finding meaning or God in their pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 This is the sort of crap ^^^, this attitude from the leader of a huge segment of the Christian population, that completely turns people off to religion in general. Oh, I'm sure he prayed his pointy mitre and gold-embroidered vestments off in coming to this conclusion but considering he is someone who is so far removed from how every day people live their lives........I have a great hand gesture for him and his fervent followers and those who believe in the letter of his words. Interpret the 'word of God'........please. People need to use their own brains, not rely on the word of some old man who has absolutely no clue as to how people have to live in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Pfft, as if the pope prays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 He does for the billions they have tied up in for-profit investments....oh and also so the coffers from the suckers people who donate money to them, doesn't dry up either. He has a lot to pray for, I assure you. Almost as much as he has to answer for in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 This is the sort of crap ^^^, this attitude from the leader of a huge segment of the Christian population, that completely turns people off to religion in general. Oh, I'm sure he prayed his pointy mitre and gold-embroidered vestments off in coming to this conclusion but considering he is someone who is so far removed from how every day people live their lives........I have a great hand gesture for him and his fervent followers and those who believe in the letter of his words. Interpret the 'word of God'........please. People need to use their own brains, not rely on the word of some old man who has absolutely no clue as to how people have to live in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drybone Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I mean really pray, not play praying on TV. I'm firmly convinced that the Catholic leadership is more likely atheist than Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 My little ray of positive sunshine. How attractive can you get lol Anyhow, I am not a big believer in the Pope , chiefly because it was integrated into Dogma, tradition and power. I think the pope does a lot of good for those who chose to look at him in a positive way. For me I look straight to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I mean really pray, not play praying on TV. I'm firmly convinced that the Catholic leadership is more likely atheist than Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 And you 'threatened' to put me on ignore.... *sigh* ........ it really was too much to hope for, wasn't it, Tommy boy? Oh yeah, and 'ignore' would include not sending me still more PMs as you are doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 One is fooling yourself, the other is fooling others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi Babe Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Aww how cute....you got your own personal stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Yeah, these are especially cute Raaaawrrrrr......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.