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#391 canucklehead44

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Ah, so when you said this, you didn't mean the current regime has a horrible drafting record so far, in your opinion?

Excellent. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I know never to put weight into your opinions ever again. I guess that includes whatever meaningless grades you put on anything as well. Afterall, you didn't mean it, right.

Lol. In my opinion, this regime has been just fine at drafting and player development. It just hasn't lived up to the hype for various reasons. Oh, and I mean it.


Lol I think you still misunderstood. Look at the statistics of our prospects, and the lack of NHL talent, it is hard to say that Gillis has a good draft record since his picks haven't panned out...yet. And as I said, it is still early to judge since the majority of the players haven't had much of an opportunity to prove themselves at the pro level.

Also a draft record will look bad if the development is poor. Example: Was Brule a bad pick? He does make CBJ's draft "record" look bad, but one could argue that being rushed into the NHL too early ruined his development. However, if CBJ didn't pick him I am sure he would have gone 7th or 8th overal.

In terms of player development, it is sad to see three 2nd round picks: Rodin, Sweatt, and Sauve combine for 5 goals, 17 points in 55 games this season. All three of them put up much better numbers in their rookie season.

If you compare the Nonis regime to the Gillis regime, Nonis already had 8 picks suit up for an NHL game (10 in total) in the same amount of time Gillis has had 2. That said, at day of draft I have loved Gillis' selections and hated Nonis'. 2007 was abysmal though, both at the time and in hindsight.
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#392 Fred65

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

*
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If you compare the Nonis regime to the Gillis regime, Nonis already had 8 picks suit up for an NHL game (10 in total) in the same amount of time Gillis has had 2. That said, at day of draft I have loved Gillis' selections and hated Nonis'. 2007 was abysmal though, both at the time and in hindsight.


You could argue with the Canucks doing so much better under the MG regime that it's more difficult to make it on the MG team versus the DN team, which accounts for the discrepancy
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#393 avelanch

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

You could argue with the Canucks doing so much better under the MG regime that it's more difficult to make it on the MG team versus the DN team, which accounts for the discrepancy

best 1st post ever.
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#394 playboi19

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 02:55 PM





Pretty similar analysis by TSN on these two guys "Solid". Just his skating is lacking in confined areas, he should be able to improve that through his summer training though.

Edited by playboi19, 04 January 2013 - 02:58 PM.

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#395 SamJamIam

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

Gaunce's skating was found after camp to not be an issue of technique or physical ability as he was just fine during training camp.
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#396 canucklehead44

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:24 PM

You could argue with the Canucks doing so much better under the MG regime that it's more difficult to make it on the MG team versus the DN team, which accounts for the discrepancy


That is a good point, +1. And I agree with you, although Grabner, Shirokov and Schneider played their first games during the Gillis regime. But of course there is a bit of a delay. The 2004 draft was phenomenal. Two all star calibre players (Schneider & Edler), a 2nd/3rd line tweener (Hansen) and a solid 4th liner (Brown). Our first rounder was 26th overall and we had no second round pick that year. Unfortunately the 2007 draft was brutal. If Nonis drafted Perron, Smith or O'Brien (3 of the 4 players taken after White) he would have had an awesome draft record overall.

A lot of our current prospect pool is long term, it will take a few years before we will really get a taste of how effective his draft selections were. Overall the progress this season is a bit discouraging but it could mean nothing. Look at Peter Andersson's progression. He went from a solid 5 points and +3 (6 points +2 in 10 games, Swe-1) to 0 points, -5 in 27 games (4 points, +4 in 30 games Swe-1) followed by a year where he was stuck in Swe-1 for the entire season. That is a significant decline. After his his successful rookie career I would have expected Anderson to be a top pairing dman in the SEL by his 3rd season. Despite this major decline he has made a successful move directly into the NHL where he has stuck around as a 7th dman (and has played solid, albeit unremarkable.
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#397 playboi19

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

2009 draft scouting report of Ryan O'Reilly

Unlike a lot of the other prospects profiled thus far, O'Reilly's value seems to lie almost exclusively in his "intangibles" which are cited endlessly in just about every scouting report you can find on the kid. That's both good and bad - good, because things like determination, leadership, will to improve and succeed, etc are particularly valuable in prospects since the road to the NHL is a difficult one. On the other hand, hearing that his attitude is his best attribute is about as worrying as hearing the same thing before meeting your blind date...

O'Reilly played for a lousy Eerie Otters last year and his results were "good" but not great. He managed a second best 66 points on the back of a team high 50 assists. His +1 rating wasn't significantly out of line with the team average, although there were much better (+24) and much worse (-21) players on the club by this metric.

His 16 goals in 66 games is a little worrisome. It's the smallest total of any of the CHL forwards I've profiled thus far and it's actually a step backwards from his rookie total of 19. The fact that he didn't take much of step forward in terms of points per game from last year (0.85 PPG versus 0.97 PPG) is something else that concerns me.

O'Reilly is also completely average in terms of size: at 6' and 205 pounds he certainly isn't small, but he's not overly large either.

As mentioned, the kid seems to endear himself to scouts via a tireless work ethic and extremely high utility owing to a willingness to contribute in every area of the ice. Sean Keogh from the OHL Prospects blog says


There is little O’Reilly is not able or at least willing to do on the ice. He can score, hit, play defence, win faceoffs, kill penalties and in general play in almost any situation. At the next level, I do not see big offensive potential, but would be surprised if he does not make the NHL in some capacity.


A Patrick King article for Sportsnet echoes many of Keogh's sentiments regarding O'Reilly:

It's often said that some of the most uniquely-talented players possess a drive and love for the game that far exceeds that of their peers. As teammate Shane Owen says, truer words were never spoken as O'Reilly tends to arrive an hour or two earlier than his teammates to prepare himself for games."I've never seen someone so dedicated to the sport before," Owen said. "He does everything he can just to make himself better.

Now for the bad news. O'Reilly is apparently a below average skater even at the OHL level, which is a significant concern when trying to make the step up from the minors. Keogh tempered his glowing review of O'Reilly with some words of caution:

The limiting factor with O’Reilly is his skating. Not only is he not that quick, but his stride is technically weak, leaving him without much room to improve his power, acceleration, balance or agility. At the OHL and U18 level he can keep up, but it would take a lot of work to get his skating to the level where he can unlock any greater potential he may have.

That's a big red flag for me, at least in terms of a first round pick. Skating is fundamental to the game and you can have all the passion or will you want, but it won't help you if don't have the speed or balance to compete. Below average skating probably significantly erodes his potential to make an impact at the NHL level.

Why the Flames might pick him
A few years ago I would have declared O'Reilly to be slam dunk Flames pick: Sutter transparently covets things like leadership, character, will to improve and "coachability" in players, even established NHLers. The fact that O'Reilly is roundly considered a "safe" pick due to his compliment of intangibles would have made him a top 3 target at the Calgary draft table previously.

Why they might not
That said, the Flames scouting staff have seemingly shifted focus away from potential role players in the last couple of drafts - the change was visible in '07 when the first two picks went towards Backlund/Negrin, while the '08 draft featured guys like Nemisz, Wahl and Brodie. With this in mind,I think Calgary will likely be looking for something more than a guy with a 3rd/4th line ceiling in their first round target. :picard:


http://www.matchstic...ft-ryan-oreilly

This is scary similar to what they said about Brendan Gaunce. Same comments about his skating, same about his work ethic and intangibles.Both were considered safe picks in their draft year. They got the same amount of points in their draft year on a bad team.

Now compare O'reilly's draft profile to B.Gaunce's:
http://blogs.thescor...brendan-gaunce/
http://thehockeywrit...file-built-nhl/
Scary Similar, scary good.

O'reilly jumped right into the NHL as an 18 year old on the 3rd line and was a big reason the Avalanche made the playoffs.
He broke out with 55 points in his 3rd NHL season last year. :bigblush:

Edited by playboi19, 04 January 2013 - 09:49 PM.

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#398 SamJamIam

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

2009 draft scouting report of Ryan O'Reilly


http://www.matchstic...ft-ryan-oreilly

This is scary similar to what they said about Brendan Gaunce. Same comments about his skating, same about his work ethic and intangibles.Both were considered safe picks in their draft year. They got the same amount of points in their draft year on a bad team.

Now compare O'reilly's draft profile to B.Gaunce's:
http://blogs.thescor...brendan-gaunce/
http://thehockeywrit...file-built-nhl/
Scary Similar, scary good.

O'reilly jumped right into the NHL as an 18 year old on the 3rd line and was a big reason the Avalanche made the playoffs.
He broke out with 55 points in his 3rd NHL season last year. :bigblush:


If anyone in our prospect pool was going to follow O'Reilly's path, it would be Gaunce. Can he? We'll see.
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#399 Lui's Knob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Lp
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#400 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

I'm calling it now, Belleville for the 2014 memorial cup. I mean add a year to Jordan and Malcom Subban, as well as Brendan Gaunce and Zharkov - that's a pretty powerful team. Add in whatever rookies make the team combined with potential deadline acquisitions and I see them winning the OHL.
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#401 Gooseberries

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

I'm calling it now, Belleville for the 2014 memorial cup. I mean add a year to Jordan and Malcom Subban, as well as Brendan Gaunce and Zharkov - that's a pretty powerful team. Add in whatever rookies make the team combined with potential deadline acquisitions and I see them winning the OHL.

man gaunce continues to impress me. 2g 1a already tonight.
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#402 DeNiro

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

I'm calling it now, Belleville for the 2014 memorial cup. I mean add a year to Jordan and Malcom Subban, as well as Brendan Gaunce and Zharkov - that's a pretty powerful team. Add in whatever rookies make the team combined with potential deadline acquisitions and I see them winning the OHL.


I think they could take a run at it this year. Especially if Subban maintains his form.

They've also got guys like Graovac, Brassard, and Cramarossa, who are great young players.

Gaunce ended the night with 4 points by the way. 2 goals and 2 assists in his teams 6-2 win.
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#403 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

I'm calling it now, Belleville for the 2014 memorial cup. I mean add a year to Jordan and Malcom Subban, as well as Brendan Gaunce and Zharkov - that's a pretty powerful team. Add in whatever rookies make the team combined with potential deadline acquisitions and I see them winning the OHL.


Yeah I agree, they are a step away now since they do have trouble scoring (Although getting Zharkov back will really help, solid 3rd pick by EDM btw, kinda jealous)

Once there younger guys develop more they should be good to go with solid goaltending and a solid defensive system.

I think they could take a run at it this year. Especially if Subban maintains his form.

They've also got guys like Graovac, Brassard, and Cramarossa, who are great young players.

Gaunce ended the night with 4 points by the way. 2 goals and 2 assists in his teams 6-2 win.


I think they will need more scoring,I do notice from the highlights that Cramarossa and Brassard are both pretty good, I think Kutpsov will have to step up and produce more, then Gaunce, Zharkov and some of the guys you mentioned will have to carry the team offensively, you can see they are getting there though, and they will always be a dangerous playoff team with a goalie like Subban.

Also nice to see Gaunce racking up the points, re-assures us that we got lucky that Gaunce fell to us at 26.
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#404 NuxFan09

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

Yep, I could actually see the Bulls making a run at the Memorial Cup this season, let alone next season. Graovac was a fantastic addition to the forward core and if tonight is any indication, he'll complete a pretty good top line in Graovac - Gaunce - Brassard. The 3 of them combined for 4 of the Bulls' 6 goals tonight and had 4 points each.
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#405 Samuel Påhlsson

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:44 AM

Nice to see Gaunce getting back to form.
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#406 Gooseberries

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:12 AM

Nice to see Gaunce getting back to form.

it was really nice to see him battle back from the injury and also the -7 (I think). he's now an even player.
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#407 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

TL16 Version 2.0

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 06 January 2013 - 08:16 AM.

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#408 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

Damn, that's a big line with Graovac, Gaunce and Brassard on it.
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#409 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:57 AM

Gaunce already has 15 goals and is only 3 points off PPG, and also is an even player finally, that Graovac addition was outstanding, I have a feeling they are both going to light it up the rest of the year.

We should make a deal with the Wild to acquire him ;)
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#410 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

Gaunce already has 15 goals and is only 3 points off PPG, and also is an even player finally, that Graovac addition was outstanding, I have a feeling they are both going to light it up the rest of the year.

We should make a deal with the Wild to acquire him ;)


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#411 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

I'm down for Graovac, despite the last name he's a good Canadian kid. I don't know how big Minny is him, as he is a 7th rounder. If we were to maybe send Cannata their way we could acquire him. Minny could use a goaltending prospect.
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#412 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

I'm down for Graovac, despite the last name he's a good Canadian kid. I don't know how big Minny is him, as he is a 7th rounder. If we were to maybe send Cannata their way we could acquire him. Minny could use a goaltending prospect.


Don, is that you? ;)

I wouldn't give up Cannata though... we kind of need him in the system.
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#413 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Don, is that you? ;)

I wouldn't give up Cannata though... we kind of need him in the system.


Ya, Cannata hasn't had a fair shake with the Wolves yet. I'm a big fan of his potential, especially with what he did in Merrimack (sp?). That being said, we are pretty deep and comfortable in goal, barring Lack's hip healing up. I really think we should go after Bartosak in this next draft, he was great in the WJC, and named CHL goaltender of the week twice already this season. He would easily trump Honzik in our goaltending depth.

What would you give up for Graovac, considering the WIld have strong prospects at forward and D?
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#414 Canvoucer Vanuck

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

Ya, Cannata hasn't had a fair shake with the Wolves yet. I'm a big fan of his potential, especially with what he did in Merrimack (sp?). That being said, we are pretty deep and comfortable in goal, barring Lack's hip healing up. I really think we should go after Bartosak in this next draft, he was great in the WJC, and named CHL goaltender of the week twice already this season. He would easily trump Honzik in our goaltending depth.

What would you give up for Graovac, considering the WIld have strong prospects at forward and D?


Considering this is the first season where Graovac's been over PPG, I'm not sure we should be rushing to acquire this guy. I hope he does well with Gaunce on the top line, but I don't think he's a 4 point-a-game player all of a sudden. Definitely someone to keep an eye out for though in future.
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#415 NuxFan09

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

I'm down for Graovac, despite the last name he's a good Canadian kid. I don't know how big Minny is him, as he is a 7th rounder. If we were to maybe send Cannata their way we could acquire him. Minny could use a goaltending prospect.


Minny could use a goaltending prospect? I don't think so. They have a tandem in the NHL that will still be successful for a few years yet in Niklas Backstrom and Josh Harding. In the AHL they have a very talented tandem in Matt Hackett (3-6, 2.38 GAA, .921 Save% in his NHL stint last season) and Darcy Kuemper. Beyond that, they've got last year's World Junior gold medal winning goalie Johan Gustafsson and a solid American prospect in Steve Michalek.

In short, I think the Canucks need Cannata more than the Wild. My hope is that he'll gradually take over the starter's role in the AHL this season or sometime next season and spend several years at that level developing, much like how Schneider's career path unfolded.
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#416 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

I'm down for Graovac, despite the last name he's a good Canadian kid. I don't know how big Minny is him, as he is a 7th rounder. If we were to maybe send Cannata their way we could acquire him. Minny could use a goaltending prospect.


As Nucks fan stated above they don't really need a goaltending prospect.

Still would be nice to get him, wonder what they would want.
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#417 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:35 AM

So Brendan can still grow from his current height...possible 6'3 or 6'4?
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#418 playboi19

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:00 AM

So Brendan can still grow from his current height...possible 6'3 or 6'4?

Guys can grow until 21. So its possible, like Rodin did.
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#419 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

Guys can grow until 21. So its possible, like Rodin did.


Hope so since Schroeder is still the same heigt as he was when drafted maybe he is 5'10 but Gauce will probably be 6'3 and that would be great
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#420 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:00 AM

Looks like Bellville is loading up for a run.

Bob McKenzie just tweeted that they picked up Alan Quine from Peterborough for three 2nd round picks.

Quine has 26 points in 26 games right now so he should add some much needed scoring

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 10 January 2013 - 11:01 AM.

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