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Pragmatic and sensible, YALTT (Yet another Luongo Trade Thread)

Proposal

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#1 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

The other threads I've waded through are mired in ridiculous and outlandish proposals. What we do know from Gillis' tendencies of seasons past is if he does make a trade, it's to disrupt the line up in the least possible fashion while strengthening it at the same time.

Here are the facts as things stand right now:

1. We have approximately 15 million in cap space
2. Luongo isn't happy and more than likely we would like to keep Schneider moving forward
3. We need to get deeper in the Top 6
4. We need to retool the defence

Trade 1:

To Vancouver:
D, Brian Campbell
F, [RFA] Kris Versteeg
3rd Round pick, 2013

To Florida:
G, Roberto Luongo
D, Keith Ballard
2nd Round pick, 2013

Both teams net a approximately 2 million in additional cap, Versteeg's cap hit likely to be in the 3.25 to 3.5 range, both teams strengthen their rosters.

Trade 2:

To Vancouver:
F, Bobby Ryan

To Anaheim:
D, Alex Edler
F, Mason Raymond
Conditional 1st round pick, 2013

Anaheim gets a good young defenceman in exchange for a good young forward. This is another hockey deal, the condition tied to the 1st round pick is in the event Edler does not sign a contract extension with the Ducks.

Additional moves by Canucks:

UFA, signing Justin Schultz to entry level deal
UFA, signing Jason Garrison to a 3 year deal with a cap hit of $3.75M, structured 2.75,3.75,4.75
UFA, re-sign Salo to 1 year, 1.25M
UFA, signing Scott Clemmensen for 1 year @ 1.35M
RFA, signing Cory Schneider to 4 year term, structured 2.5, 3.75, 5, 6.25 resulting in a cap hit of 4.375

Between being able to defer Schultz's performance bonuses to next years salary, and Kesler missing a portion of the beginning of the season, the Canucks should end up with just under 615K in cap space for 2012/2013 which could be used to add 1 small piece at the deadline or used to absorb a portion of Schultz's bonuses (there are a couple different bonus types he will be eligible for).

Resulting lineup:


FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.250m)
Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Jason Garrison ($3.750m)
Sami Salo ($1.25m) / Justin Schultz ($0.980m)
Chris Tanev ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.375m)
Scott Clemmensen ($1.350m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,587,875; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $612,125

Other thoughts, Kris Versteeg could not be included in the Luongo deal and we could keep our 2nd round pick, keep Mason Raymond and put him on the 3rd line and bump Burrows up to the 2nd line. This would provide us with at least another million in cap space.

Edited by Shadowgoon, 27 June 2012 - 01:12 PM.


#2 JordanEberle

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

I give you great credit for writing out a well though out proposal, and I like these trades for each team involved.
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#3 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:15 PM

Dale Tallon isn't gonna want to trade Campbell... he had a great year. I like the signing of Clemmensen but he was a starter for part of the year in Florida so will probably pull a Mike Smith and sign with a team in need of a starter. Say Toronto, Edmonton, or Washington for example. Also Schultz's entry level deal is two years at $925 K per with a $3.8 M cap hit. We may want to try to get a checking center via free agency because Malhotra has never been the same since his injury and Lappy fits in really well to the fourth line center position so ideally Gaustad would work well there. If not him, a guy like Jay McClement or Torrey Mitchell could work for the next few years until Brendan Gaunce is ready to step in!

Yesterday I made a really similar proposal but instead of Brian Campbell i had Keaton Ellerby and Jason Garrison's rights, and for the Ryan proposal I added a bit more on our part. I like the two trades and signings!!

Edited by CanucksFanMike, 27 June 2012 - 01:18 PM.

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#4 Pears

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

I wouldn't like trading Edler but I do like both of your trades. I think Campbell would be an excellent fit here.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#5 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:19 PM

Dale Tallon isn't gonna want to trade Campbell... he had a great year. I like the signing of Clemmensen but he was a starter for part of the year in Florida so will probably pull a Mike Smith and sign with a team in need of a starter. Say Toronto, Edmonton, or Washington for example. Also Schultz's entry level deal is two years at $925 K per with a $3.8 M cap hit. We may want to try to get a checking center via free agency because Malhotra has never been the same since his injury and Lappy fits in really well to the fourth line center position so ideally Gaustad would work well there. If not him, a guy like Jay McClement or Torrey Mitchell could work for the next few years until Brendan Gaunce is ready to step in!!


Re: Schultz,

If I'm not mistaken, a large portion of the bonuses are performance based. The caphit is not not automatically set at 3.8, and any bonuses he does earn can be deferred to the following season. Tallon may not want to trade Campbell, but something will have to give. Florida is not a "spend to the cap" team, they have a budget and need to stick within it.

#6 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

I wouldn't like trading Edler but I do like both of your trades. I think Campbell would be an excellent fit here.


Agreed, and if the return for Edler is Ryan, you have to look at it real hard; especially considering that Campbell might come back for Luongo and the possible signing of Schultz and Garrison, something will have to give. Defence and goaltending are positions of strength for us as we have several options ahead, it's best to deal from those to strengthen other parts of the roster.

#7 Jägermeister

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:33 PM

I like the Florida trade. Skeptical that Campbell can repeat his play from this year, but I would be willing to spend the exta $$$ on him than Ballard.
The Anaheim deal is fair, but I'd rather keep Edler over acquiring Ryan.
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#8 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:41 PM

I like the Florida trade. Skeptical that Campbell can repeat his play from this year, but I would be willing to spend the exta $$$ on him than Ballard.
The Anaheim deal is fair, but I'd rather keep Edler over acquiring Ryan.


I know that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but I don't understand the logic. We have a definite need in the T6 for a legitimate skill player, and Bobby Ryan brings that with grit to spare. I would honestly rather have Bobby Ryan in the T6 than Edler in the T4, especially if we can add 3 very good d-men this summer. Schultz in 3 years will eclipse Edler's contribution, save maybe for physicality which to be honest has ranged from dominant to absolutely non-existent with Edler.

#9 L'Orange

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:50 PM

If there was a $7 m defenseman to get it's not Campbell. Shea Weber would make way more sense.
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#10 Jägermeister

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

I know that's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but I don't understand the logic. We have a definite need in the T6 for a legitimate skill player, and Bobby Ryan brings that with grit to spare. I would honestly rather have Bobby Ryan in the T6 than Edler in the T4, especially if we can add 3 very good d-men this summer. Schultz in 3 years will eclipse Edler's contribution, save maybe for physicality which to be honest has ranged from dominant to absolutely non-existent with Edler.


I just don't buy all the Ryan hype. He plays with 2 stars (Getzlaf and Perry) which inflates his point production, and only got 57 points last year (he's a good player and all, and I know he had an off year last season). He also isn't a player that would thrive on a line with Kesler and Booth, which is really what we should be going after.
Edler is going to be an All-Star calibre defenceman for years, and I would rather not give him up for a player that our team doesn't need.

Edited by Jagermeister, 27 June 2012 - 01:51 PM.

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#11 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 01:56 PM

I just don't buy all the Ryan hype. He plays with 2 stars (Getzlaf and Perry) which inflates his point production, and only got 57 points last year (he's a good player and all, and I know he had an off year last season). He also isn't a player that would thrive on a line with Kesler and Booth, which is really what we should be going after.
Edler is going to be an All-Star calibre defenceman for years, and I would rather not give him up for a player that our team doesn't need.


Generally speaking, if Bobby Ryan was of the ilk and calibre of being able to produce all-star numbers by himself ala Crosby or Malkin, he wouldn't be available at all and if he were it would be a ridiculous king's ransom.

If he scores the points he does because of Getzlaf and Perry, how well do you think he'll do on a line with Henrik and Daniel? Imo his ceiling would be astronomical and would far and away offset the loss of Edler on the point. Edler is a hell of a defenceman, and that's why it's a fair trade. Both are young, both are skilled and have many years ahead of them, granted defencemen have a bit longer of a shelf life than rugged forwards do.

But at the end of the day, if Bobby Ryan provides that game breaking element that we lacked in the LA series, or the Boston series last playoffs, is it not worth the offset of a defence that 2 years in a row included Edler and wasn't capable of winning us the cup?

#12 Spitfire_Spiky

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:05 PM

Well thought out proposal and for once realistic trades on both fronts. I like the look of the final line-up but it's hard to say who will sign where in terms of the UFAs. Ideally it would be nice to get both Garrison and Schultz but I don't think it will be that easy to do.
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#13 elvis15

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

Re: Schultz,

If I'm not mistaken, a large portion of the bonuses are performance based. The caphit is not not automatically set at 3.8, and any bonuses he does earn can be deferred to the following season. Tallon may not want to trade Campbell, but something will have to give. Florida is not a "spend to the cap" team, they have a budget and need to stick within it.

You could in the previous CBA, but there's no guarantee you'll be able to in the new one. Even for this past season, you couldn't defer bonuses to the next year as there wasn't a new CBA in place yet to be sure it was allowed.

I don't see us wanting Campbell back, not to mention why wouldn't we try and include Garrison's rights for the max 4th rounder it'd cost us. The conditional 1st in the Ryan deal doesn't make sense either, since they'll have a whole year with him so they take their chances on him re-signing.

Florida doesn't have a lot of needs right now, but we know two things: the team wants to keep the core roster players intact as much as possible, and management doesn't want to sacrifice top prospects to improve. I don't see both Campbell and Versteeg moving as a result, but they may not have a choice when it comes to Garrison.

Anaheim is all but forced to move Ryan unless they can repair the relationship, but I'm not sure we're willing to give up Edler as we'd suddenly be short on the left hand side. We could try Ballard there for a bigger role (this is looking at just the 2nd deal, not including the 1st) or one of our prospects, or hope we do sign Garrison as he can play both sides, but there's no guarantee. We're already looking for another top D and to move him away in order to get a top 6 forward is risky.

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#14 Jägermeister

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:19 PM

Generally speaking, if Bobby Ryan was of the ilk and calibre of being able to produce all-star numbers by himself ala Crosby or Malkin, he wouldn't be available at all and if he were it would be a ridiculous king's ransom.

If he scores the points he does because of Getzlaf and Perry, how well do you think he'll do on a line with Henrik and Daniel? Imo his ceiling would be astronomical and would far and away offset the loss of Edler on the point. Edler is a hell of a defenceman, and that's why it's a fair trade. Both are young, both are skilled and have many years ahead of them, granted defencemen have a bit longer of a shelf life than rugged forwards do.

But at the end of the day, if Bobby Ryan provides that game breaking element that we lacked in the LA series, or the Boston series last playoffs, is it not worth the offset of a defence that 2 years in a row included Edler and wasn't capable of winning us the cup?


Like I said, it was a fair trade.
I've just never bought that Ryan was going to be an star player. He'll be a good 60 point player for another 10 years. I think I would just rather go and find a FA such as Parenteau or Doan, who could be that 60 point player now, but not for as long, and keep Edler.
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#15 shadowgoon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:29 PM

@Elvis15, I hadn't considered the CBA implications you bring up a good point. Gillis has to get a roster player back for Luongo, that much is given. Giving up a 4th to obtain exclusive rights to negotiate is pretty moot when you consider you simply have to wait a couple of days and you keep that asset. I would be OK in moving Luongo for Versteeg + a 1st round pick and throw in Garrison, but I wouldn't give up an additional asset. Versteeg is risky too because he's RFA, difficult to negotiate an extension prior to July 1st unless Florida has already qualified him (which I can't see them not doing).

@Jagermeister, I respect that position and for what it's worth it may be the best approach. Perhaps instead of Edler, Anaheim listens to an offer of Ballard + 1st + Hansen. While Hansen definitely looks to be improving, and is one of the gritter forwards on our current roster there is only so much ice for so many players.

A defensive core of Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Shultz, Garrison, Salo is pretty formidable imo. I just really think that Ryan can definitely help improve this roster.

Edit, sliding Raymond into the 3rd line in place of Hansen might work out well. Despite his anemic offensive abilities, he is still young and with reduced pressure on the 3rd line (imo where he belongs) he can become an effective 30-40 point guy playing good defensive minutes in a shutdown role, and on the PK where his speed can serve him best.

Sedin/Sedin/Ryan
Booth/Kesler/Versteeg
Burrows/Malhotra/Raymond
Higgins/Lapierre/Kassian

Bieksa/Hamhuis
Edler/Garrison
Shultz/Salo

Schneider
UFA

Looks air tight to me.

Edited by Shadowgoon, 27 June 2012 - 02:38 PM.


#16 komodo1970

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 05:37 PM

The problem I would have as the Florida GM is that I'm getting back pieces that were traded away. Ballard would be returning in worse condition than when he left. His offense is completely gone. Lou's salary is a huge concern; especially for a team that is having attendance issues. I don't really see it happening.




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