I've had budgies with longer memories..........

[Bodee]

Baggins, I hear you. However there is a certain deja vu about all this and it is worrying.

As I have said on another thread MG seems like a good guy, he goes out looks for good players, with good character and good value................but he seems to miss the big picture. He selects individuals but doesn't seem to see what the team is missing to make it a strong contender.

We fail not for lack of good players but lack of good big "nasty" players. Guys who if the opposition push, will push back and go further if need be.

We also lack 1, maybe 2 game changers. A Perry type player for the Sedins.

I see this as cap wasted on not what we need and therefore it dilutes our bargaining ability for players we actually are crying out for..............that is why I'm unhappy.

"sigh i feel sorry for MG...didn't people want MG to sign a D? well now he did and this is what he gets?"

Way to miss the point friend. The D we needed was someone who would protect the goalie, stand up for the team and intimidate the Marchands of this world...............not quite what we have here. We have here an Ehrhoff type with a Hamhuis disposition.

[pimpcurtly]

I'd really like to hear your plan of attack, Bodee. Like how would you woo all the wonderful free agents to us but still keep it cap friendly. Or would you take the trade route? I see a lot of armchair talky but not much realistic walky.

[Bodee]

The OP will never be happy... We are better then 95 percent of the league and he still has a problem. He is likely the type of guy that shows up to buy a five hundred dollar car and complains non stop that its not in absolute perfect shape.

[ThaBestPlaceOnEarth]

Whatever, our leading scorer was hurt and we flip-flopped on the goalie situation terribly. It's really not even about the lineup with this team I don't think, it's about the fanbase, the media, the atmosphere in the city surrounding this team. What does it say when the crows boos the starting goalie, in a meaningless game, before the playoffs even start? A game we went on to win? It's a goddamn disgrace, and as soon as it happened I KNEW we were going nowhere in the playoffs.

Don't even get me started on Gallagher and co. in our traitorours media corps, they'd sell the whole team downriver for a headline.

And yes, I've suspected since 2003 or so that all the dope in the air around here is negatively affecting the franchise. The fanbase does indeed have the memory of a goldfish, why do you reckon that is? We finally get a decent goalie and we drive him out of town in what, five years? Nobody remembers Potvin/Cloutier/Auld I guess? Fools! Get off the f***ing bong for a second and learn about hockey! Today's clamoring for stupid, overpriced free agent deals, any deal for god's sake! was just the most recent example. People need to get a f***ing clue already, this is the BEST the Canucks have EVER been, y'all noobs need to show some appreciation and quit ruining it!

[Kryten]

Baggins, I hear you. However there is a certain deja vu about all this and it is worrying.

As I have said on another thread MG seems like a good guy, he goes out looks for good players, with good character and good value................but he seems to miss the big picture. He selects individuals but doesn't seem to see what the team is missing to make it a strong contender.

We fail not for lack of good players but lack of good big "nasty" players. Guys who if the opposition push, will push back and go further if need be.

We also lack 1, maybe 2 game changers. A Perry type player for the Sedins.

I see this as cap wasted on not what we need and therefore it dilutes our bargaining ability for players we actually are crying out for..............that is why I'm unhappy.

[Bodee]

That's because he wasn't signed to be a tough guy?

He's a strong, physical D who can put up 15 goals, and you're going to complain?

Look at Detroit, they won cups with pure skill, this year they signed Jordin Tootoo. They haven't had that tough guy for a while, I bet people complained about it all the time. Coming into Free Agency this year, did anyone really expect for Holland to make a signing like that? Not really. So why would it be so illogical to think that maybe MG will still sign a player to fit that role?

That being said, there are still plenty of players out there who can take on that pugilist role, so why don't we all wait to see what happens in that regard before we start passing judgement?

If come the start of the season, we still don't have anybody like that, then you have something to complain about.

[DarthNinja]

Top 50 eh?...........Impressive..................my ass!

I would have said an Elite team and 2 times PT winner should have been aiming at top 10. I'm quite happy to wait but if this is an indication of how MG corrects the GLARING FLAWS in a team with SC aspirations, then I'm not exactly filled with confidence.

Also I note how you neatly avoid the last 2 years. This is not just a complaint about now it is an accumulative complaint about his apparent blind spot.

I'm not the only one who sees this as a terminal weakness (with reference to SC aspirations) in the team. These boards have been thick with it, as have the media............................................................. GARRISON does not address this problem imo.

[Bodee]

Here are some of my thoughts.

I feel the Sedins with Burrows line falters against a physical approach and this is not guaranteed to be addressed by a PP. Furthermore the effects of this are felt more in a best of 7. I think the answer is to team them with a big gritty in yer face winger who could cause enough disruption to free up the Sedins. I have proposed someone like Perry if not Perry himself.

Our 2nd line is a mess and I really question whether a fit Kesler will change that. I am not a fan of Booth. I don't dispute he is brave with a lot of positive attributes. It is more that I doubt if he has ever been a passer of the puck (he doesn't do it well) and we need someone who will enhance Kesler while still producing. I had in mind a Clowe type (hard nosed point producer) of player with Burrows taking the other wing.

My third line would be along the lines of Raymond,Higgins and Hansen or if Raymond was traded we could try Jensen.

The 4th would be Volpatti/Lapierre, Lapierre/Malhotra, Pinizzotto/Weise. Whichever worked out best, after all we don't know how well Volpatti, Pinizzotta and Manny will emerge from the pre season.

My views regarding the D are obviously affected by our acquisition. One I have stated was not required, however I would be trying for something along these lines and of course some trading would be involved.

Hamhuis - Bieksa

Garrison - Komisarek

Sbisa/Ballard - Tanev

This would imply Edler being traded as he is too soft for the team I have in mind now that we have acquired Garrison. Ballard, I would also trade if it meant getting someone like Sbisa.

There you have it. Don't look at the names as much as what I am trying to achieve with the team. There are others like Doan who could no doubt be substituted.

[Canuck Surfer]

I'm in agreement with Bodee.

In that we need to address physical competitiveness. Torres and Malhotra signings, plus Hamhuis went a long way. Nothing since has replaced the regression of Malhotra and loss of Torres.

We also lost talent (and size) in Samuelsson.

On face value signing Garrison is a great move, and evidently cheaper than keeping Salo and Rome. A big boost, like with Booth, in younger more dynamic legs and bigger muscles. We are clearly more athletic and adding to "our window." But neither made his name bashing anything or making them pay.

It wont mean a thing unless we also compliment them with some serious GRUNT back in our line up!

(edit) and coaching will make a difference.

Our first line really has to be most effective on the PP cuz it is too small to compete as a two way, eye for an eye, line. We have bodies in the line up. We need passing on the 2knd. Splitting the Twins is the other solution.

Danny/Booth/Kesler as a first has speed size, superior goal scoring and now a brilliant passer

Burrows/Hank/Kassian Hank can make Kassian a player, and Kassian can make a line physical

Jensen/Lapierre/Higgins Adds a goal scorer and some size

Raymond/Malhotra/Bitz Two centers, speed, two goal scorers and nastiness...

Easy to argue that line up is not as good, as it does not load as much talent on the top line. Its Waaay more capable of matching up in speed and size!

But no matter what, we need to add some NASTY size on D, we have no one!

Who would you sign then genius? You talk trash but dont say what the GM should have done...

[dura_mater]

We did show interest in him, we tried to land him

We were shown the door by LA and I sat in awe as this team who finished 8th pummelled us into submission.................Ah well I thought MG will have seen this and big things will happen and steps will be taken to toughen up for next season.

Toughness wasn't why we lost. You could start with the fact we were without our top offensive players in Daniel.

Even with Daniel we were no match for the physicality of that team. We tried to match it and gave away the first two games.

Now idiots on here foam at the mouth about Jokinen and Versteeg

"Idiots" on here are not MG, again simmer down.

I was just reinforcing the title heading.........I take it I'm allowed to do that?

Then we sign a top four D who has as much push back, it would seem (unless I am missing something) as Mason Raymond on a bad day.

The guy is 6'2" so I'm not sure what you're referring to. As for short memories, do you remember how we have fared after our top offensive defenseman in Ehrhoff left? Well guess what, MG just got his replacement.

With respect replacing Ehrhoff was never the answer to our problem..........in fact we made up most of his points..........He certainly never had a much in the way of defence and little in the way of push back...............So I maintain we have spent time and money on getting something that is irrelevant to our deficiencies.

Maybe you would do better to try and understand the thrust of my argument instead of condescendingly telling me to "settle/simmer down"

[Ewok]

Apparently losing in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final is the equivalent to getting "molested."

[Rounoush]

Go to bed, child.

[ABNuck]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...you simply CANNOT build a team to win the S/C...all you can do is build the best team you can for the regular season. The basic analogy is something like this: A team could finish the regular season having destroyed 28 other teams and finishing with the best record in the history of the NHL...but the team has a losing record against 1 team in their confernece...and guess who they end up playing in the first round...and are eliminated. Then fans like you come screaming about what a lousy year it was because we got dumped in the first round.

You cannot...CANNOT...build a team for the playoffs...you build a team to win the Division/Conference in the regular season, then hope for good matchups in the Playoffs. It is easier for other teams to build up/bulk up against us as they are pretty darn sure that we will be the top team and eventually they will have to play us to move on. But who do WE play in round 1 or 2 or 3? Can you predict that now?

I agree that a little grittiness goes a long way no matter what...but it isn't like we can go all in. I'd rather have the 25 smartest, most skilled (at their position - both tactical and line placement) who can take a hit and keep going, than 25 dopey guys that can dish it out. This isn't Junior 'B'...this is the NHL, and you have to own a pretty deep toolbag to play here.

[rkyway]

Paying up big for one good season (not great) is highly risky. He's never been a big goal scorer; nor does he have a history of a lot of assists.

- It used to be GM 101 not to pay on the basis of one good season; but not anymore I guess.

[Bodee]

All you've really stated is opinion. Here are the facts

Hits

Game 1 Nucks 26 Kings 28 L 2-4

Game 2 Nucks 45 Kings 32 L 2-4

Game 3 Nucks 31 Kings 31 L 0-1

Game 4 Nucks 26 Kings 50 W 3-1

Game 5 Nucks 30 Kings 39 L 2-1

Total 158 180

Your OPINION is that the Canucks lost because they were out hit. My FACTS show the difference in hits over the 5 games 22 (or 4 per game) is neglible. Therefore, your opinion is weak at best. Interestingly, the Canucks won when they were outhit by the largest margin so I could argue they play better when out hit.

[Sugar baby watermelon]

Yet another epic rant!!! If MG had a nickel for every armchair GM offering up their Invaluable tips he would be a billionaire

[awalk]

Honestly, how many ass kickings do we have to take until we start building for a Stanley Cup?

Personally I was gutted when we didn't learn lessons after we were "molested" out of the finals.

Then I thought we would "man up" before the playoffs. We did but it turned out young Kassian was still in diapers.

We were shown the door by LA and I sat in awe as this team who finished 8th pummelled us into submission.................Ah well I thought MG will have seen this and big things will happen and steps will be taken to toughen up for next season.

But NO.

First we show interest in a College guy a strong wind would blow over.

Then we sign a top four D who has as much push back, it would seem (unless I am missing something) as Mason Raymond on a bad day.

Now idiots on here foam at the mouth about Jokinen and Versteeg

WTF!

Do we really want to win the Stanley Cup? I am seriously beginning to doubt it.

The grit / push back that makes the difference as far as I can see is NOT in the 3rd and 4th lines it's where the real battles take place...........the 1st and 2nd lines in both offence AND defence.

When is this team going to get back to basic principles. The D is for first and foremost keeping goals out of our net and ensuring our goalie is NOT molested.

The offence is for getting goals 5 on 5 and in particularly from the forward trio. We have lived for too long on the PP at this Club and it's high time we started taking names and kicking asses.

We are already known as pushovers and divers, is this an attempt to enhance our PP figures? If so we need to get our priorities right.

MG, I'm not impressed with your FIRST BIG MOVE. Unlike many on here I have a very good memory.

[Bodee]

"Then fans like you come screaming about what a lousy year it was because we got dumped in the first round."

Man, if you think that I think it was a lousy year because we got dumped in the first round you must have been on the moon during regular season. Read the post again.

As for not being able to design a team for the SC..............of course you can. You are not guaranteed to actually win it but 9 times out of 10 you avoid an LA meltdown.

"I agree that a little grittiness goes a long way no matter what...but it isn't like we can go all in. I'd rather have the 25 smartest, most skilled (at their position - both tactical and line placement) who can take a hit and keep going, than 25 dopey guys that can dish it out. This isn't Junior 'B'...this is the NHL, and you have to own a pretty deep toolbag to play here."

Boston and LA were VERY GOOD TEAMS, they were not just thugs with grit. They built a good team that would not be easy to push around.

The very idea that because you build a team good enough to gain the PT but without the physical size and pushback to impose your game every night in a best of 7 IS FLAWED, if your aim is to win the SC.

The whole point of my post is a recognition that we HAD DONE THE HARD PART, building the framework and 2 years ago we should have fined tuned this team with grit endowed ability to finish the job.

But instead MG has gone back and started on the damned framework again and WE STILL DON'T HAVE THE PUSHBACK!

[FaninON]

As a long time Canuck fan and now living in the east,I get to watch some teams that maybe some of you can't because of the time zone issue. I watched Florida play three games last season and Garrison, I thought, was a standout in two of them. As for his toughness, he's a big guy and does not get pushed over. He will fit very well with the "D" Vancouver has right now. I would like to see Ballard traded however, but thats another topic altogether.

[Bodee]

6'2 220lbs of push back seems ok to me