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France: Mandatory breathalyzer test in ALL vehicles


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#61 Common sense

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:42 PM

I see both sides of the argument here actually, its tough. I see the point of preventing D&D'ing, but I also understand the point the other side is making about gov't encroachment.

If its for people WHO HAVE D&D'ed then it makes sense (like we have now here), punish the offenders not everyone.


If it's just for those convicted of D+D, I too have no problems with it. You abused your privilege of driving, and now you'll have less privileges as a result.

Why punish law-abiding citizens by adding in a piece of costly equipment?

#62 22Sedinery33

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:51 PM

Finally something I can agree on with the French... It's what we need here to take the morons off the road when they can't handle themselves and think there cool by driving recklessly down the highway...
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#63 The Situation

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:15 PM

Judging from the posts in this thread, it seems a lot of you did not read the article.

Its for a mandatory breathalyzer but NOT the immobilizer you see in people convicted of DUIs. Its just any old breathalyzer test. The driver is not forced to use it before starting his or her car. Its not going to do a whole lot for stopping drunk driving and its not overly intrusive.

I personally think its pointless because I doubt its going to have a lot of people use it and change their mind about driving. Also, its government heading one step in the direction of Big Brother.
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#64 Buggernut

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:21 PM

so rather than present an argument as to why you disagree with me you insult me and call into question my mental health .
i will tell you what i am , i am a person who takes responsibility for his actions and does not want/need people telling me how to live my life .


Somebody does not have a sense of humour.

Anyways, are you okay with people's right to bear firearms? I've never heard anything from you about it and don't know your position on it, but if you're of the belief that it's not guns that kill people and a few criminals shouldn't ruin it for the rest, then at least you're consistent and I can respect you for it.

#65 Buggernut

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:23 PM

Judging from the posts in this thread, it seems a lot of you did not read the article.

Its for a mandatory breathalyzer but NOT the immobilizer you see in people convicted of DUIs. Its just any old breathalyzer test. The driver is not forced to use it before starting his or her car. Its not going to do a whole lot for stopping drunk driving and its not overly intrusive.

I personally think its pointless because I doubt its going to have a lot of people use it and change their mind about driving. Also, its government heading one step in the direction of Big Brother.


It'll probably stop the borderline casual drinkers who don't want to get pulled over and arrested for it. Not so much for those blitzed drunk out of their mind.

#66 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:40 PM

No they were not, but clearly their point still stands. To say otherwise is ignorant.



Oh really?

The Patriot Act
Free Speech Zones (whatever those are)
SOPA/PIPA whatever its being called these days.
The Espionage Act
No more Habeas Corpus
FEMA Camps
TSA

Income Tax is a fraud
Property Tax is a fraud
Carbon Tax is a fraud
Interest is a fraud

I dunno, sounds like a lot of stealing freedoms and money is going on to me.


Clearly the point stands? It's not so clear to me, care to explain how this encroaches onto your rights and freedoms? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Can I use other laws that benefit the people to contradict the point you think you are making by pointing out freedom-encroaching laws?

And let's not pretend that I see the government as representative of the people's wishes as it stands today.

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 03 July 2012 - 10:45 PM.

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My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#67 Armada

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

Clearly the point stands? It's not so clear to me, care to explain how this encroaches onto your rights and freedoms? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Can I use other laws that benefit the people to contradict the point you think you are making by pointing out freedom-encroaching laws?

And let's not pretend that I see the government as representative of the people's wishes as it stands today.


You must have not heard of the listed "Acts/Laws" before.

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#68 dank.

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

Clearly the point stands? It's not so clear to me, care to explain how this encroaches onto your rights and freedoms? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Can I use other laws that benefit the people to contradict the point you think you are making by pointing out freedom-encroaching laws?

And let's not pretend that I see the government as representative of the people's wishes as it stands today.


Their point. Not the point. The points of men much wiser than either of us. If you fail to comprehend their simple meanings, that's really too bad for you, but don't expect me to explain them to you when none is needed. So wait all you want.

So you admit there's laws that encroach on our freedom? Right after saying the government doesn't do that? Good Game.

Government isn't some boogeyman out to steal your freedoms and money.



Point out all of the other laws for all I care. Freedom isn't a game of balance, there isn't any amount of "contradictory" laws that will make up for the ones that strip us of our rights and freedoms. Your thought process on this subject is frightening.

And your last sentence makes no sense.

Edited by dank., 04 July 2012 - 12:31 AM.

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#69 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:08 AM

Their point. Not the point. The points of men much wiser than either of us. If you fail to comprehend their simple meanings, that's really too bad for you, but don't expect me to explain them to you when none is needed. So wait all you want.

So you admit there's laws that encroach on our freedom? Right after saying the government doesn't do that? Good Game.



Point out all of the other laws for all I care. Freedom isn't a game of balance, there isn't any amount of "contradictory" laws that will make up for the ones that strip us of our rights and freedoms. Your thought process on this subject is frightening.

And your last sentence makes no sense.


People like you have one problem, too many words say nothing at all.

Their point or the point, meaning of the sentence remains unchanged. My question wasn't "what's the point", you're simply unable to maintain focus and divert to a comfortable area - red herrings and straw men. Well done.

I'll ask again,

It's not so clear to me, care to explain how this encroaches onto your rights and freedoms?


Of course there are laws that encroach on freedoms, living in a civilized society demands there be limits so we can coexist. Your freedom to drive drunk is one of such freedoms, ridding you of which I have absolutely no problem with. Your freedom to lie to people to sell your product is another. One more is your freedom to abuse your child. Want more freedoms that the terrible government takes away from you? How about: Seat belts? Jaywalking? Base jumping off buildings? I can go on and on and on and on. Not all laws that encroach on freedoms are inherently bad. Rights are a little different, and in this case I feel are irrelevant (you're welcome to explain otherwise).

And "the government" doesn't mean "American government" or "Canadian government", especially when we're talking about France... Using the term interchangeably as you do implies you're using it as a generic term. If that's the case, you'll have to make a good case to convince me that "the government" isn't a means to building a functional society.

Freedom isn't a game of balance, but democracy is. It is why we have this and these. My thought process shouldn't frighten you, unless you think we should all be self-reliant without any government in the land. Otherwise, I argue for a functional, responsible government that only needs people to pay attention to become reality. I hope eventually you stop being distracted and distracting others with nonsense and realize we only need to hold our elected representatives responsible. Overcome apathy and all our problems will be fixed.

My last sentence makes perfect sense. Read it again.

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 04 July 2012 - 01:09 AM.

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My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#70 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:39 AM

All my life I've heard how alcoholism is not a problem in Europe. Everyone has a glass of wine with their meals and people learn from a young age to treat it the same as any other beverage. Everytime someone wants to change the laws to make it more accessible they point to Europe. I've always said this is not Europe and simply making alcohol more accessible isn't going to magically transform social norms. Recently theatres here lobbied to serve alcohol and used the Europe arguement. One third is a staggering number. Clearly alcohol is a larger problem now than in the past in France. It is not your fathers' Europe any more.

Edit: For the record I strongly oppose this law. It is frigthening how people jump up in support, just frightening. Do you know that in the UK there are government cameras in the homes of "problem families" to assure Big Brother that the children are properly cared for and other problems are under control??? And the people there feel this is acceptable!?!?! We are lining up pleading for our rights to be seized.



Global Research, July 31, 2009
The Daily Express - 2009-07-23

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24/7 CCTV Surveillance in Homes of 20,000 Families

THOUSANDS of the worst families in England are to be put in “sin bins” in a bid to change their bad behaviour, Ed Balls announced yesterday.

The Children’s Secretary set out £400million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV super-vision in their own homes.


They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.


Private security guards will also be sent round to carry out home checks, while parents will be given help to combat drug and alcohol addiction.


Around 2,000 families have gone through these Family Intervention Projects so far.


But ministers want to target 20,000 more in the next two years, with each costing between £5,000 and £20,000 – a potential total bill of £400million.


Ministers hope the move will reduce the number of youngsters who get drawn into crime because of their chaotic family lives, as portrayed in Channel 4 comedy drama Shameless.


Sin bin projects operate in half of council areas already but Mr Balls wants every local authority to fund them.


He said: “This is pretty tough and non-negotiable support for families to get to the root of the problem. There should be Family Intervention Projects in every local authority area because every area has families that need support.”


But Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: “This is all much too little, much too late.


“This Government has been in power for more than a decade during which time anti-social behaviour, family breakdown and problems like alcohol abuse and truancy have just got worse and worse.”


Mr Balls also said responsible parents who make sure their children behave in school will get new rights to complain about those who allow their children to disrupt lessons.


Pupils and their families will have to sign behaviour contracts known as Home School Agreements before the start of every year, which will set out parents’ duties to ensure children behave and do their homework.


The updated Youth Crime Action Plan also called for a crackdown on violent girl gangs as well as drug and alcohol abuse among young women.


But a decision to give ministers new powers to intervene with failing local authority Youth Offending Teams was criticised by council leaders.


Les Lawrence, of the Local Government Association, said they did “crucial” work and such intervention was “completely unnecessary”.

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#71 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:58 AM

Somebody does not have a sense of humour.

Anyways, are you okay with people's right to bear firearms? I've never heard anything from you about it and don't know your position on it, but if you're of the belief that it's not guns that kill people and a few criminals shouldn't ruin it for the rest, then at least you're consistent and I can respect you for it.


so long as your actions are not detrimental/cuase hurt to other people in any way i will defend your right to whatever you should choose to do .

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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

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#72 dank.

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:16 AM

People like you have one problem, too many words say nothing at all.


That's ironic considering your whole argument stems from a post in which I only used words of famous people.

I'm really not going to bother. Why should I? I can listen to Butthead here, trying to tell me what Freedom is all about...

Of course there are laws that encroach on freedoms, living in a civilized society demands there be limits so we can coexist

Butthead

or a Founding Father.

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual

Thomas Jefferson

I choose the latter. So continue your argument for a tyrannical big brother, nanny state if you'd like, I'm tuning out.

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#73 SukhKular

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:12 AM

Is it a privilege when your taxes pay for the infrastructure?


By that logic, you don't really have to follow any rules because your taxes pay the police's wages.
I'm saying Aladeen a lot because http://forum.canucks...dpost__10922428

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#74 InTo ThE WiLD

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:16 AM

At least breathalyzer manufacturers and retailers are prolly having a toast ! :bigblush:

#75 Satan's Evil Twin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:00 AM

That's ironic considering your whole argument stems from a post in which I only used words of famous people.

I'm really not going to bother. Why should I? I can listen to Butthead here, trying to tell me what Freedom is all about...


Butthead

or a Founding Father.


Thomas Jefferson

I choose the latter. So continue your argument for a tyrannical big brother, nanny state if you'd like, I'm tuning out.


You didn't use the words of famous people, you misused words of famous people. And when pressed to explain, you tell me you don't want to bother. Well you sure showed me!

By the way, that's Beavis, not Butt-Head, but you're probably too young to have seen the show.

PS. Nice appeal to authority. :lol:

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 04 July 2012 - 08:09 AM.

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Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


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#76 Donky

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

Let me guess....many members of the ruling party are heavily invested in breathalyzers!
“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”-Sinclair Lewis

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#77 Heretic

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

Judging from the posts in this thread, it seems a lot of you did not read the article.

Its for a mandatory breathalyzer but NOT the immobilizer you see in people convicted of DUIs. Its just any old breathalyzer test. The driver is not forced to use it before starting his or her car. Its not going to do a whole lot for stopping drunk driving and its not overly intrusive.

I personally think its pointless because I doubt its going to have a lot of people use it and change their mind about driving. Also, its government heading one step in the direction of Big Brother.


Also, I can't find any thing says you have to actually use it - you just need t have it in your vehicle.

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Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

 

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#78 Snake Doctor

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:33 PM

I don't see why it's a bad idea. Put them in all cars. If your not drinking, you can drive. Simple. If the government will subsidise it and it's free to install, why not? We would be in a much safer world.
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#79 Carpe Diem

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:55 PM

lol
i don't think is the same type of breathlyzer that prevents a car from starting.

also, is a $11 Euro fine for not having one. Hardly government oppression, more like encouragement.

#80 Carpe Diem

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” (Thomas Jefferson, To Archibald Stuart in Philadelphia 1791.) Posted Image
so the majority has to give up another freedom because of the mistakes of very small minority , where do we draw the line ? i do not drink and i believe that if you kill someone while driving under the influence you should be charged with murder , but this is a ridiculous idea with so many ways to circumvent it .


do you complain about the seat belt law too? or speed limits?

#81 key2thecup

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:44 PM

By that logic, you don't really have to follow any rules because your taxes pay the police's wages.


I dont see how I said not to follow the law?

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#82 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

do you complain about the seat belt law too? or speed limits?


do you always ask stupid questions ?

I think it's rad when balls beats natural talent

Shaun Palmer

 

The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi





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