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Elite Tandem Goaltending, Solid Defense, Missing what now?


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#1 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:15 AM

The Vancouver Canucks sit this morning with 5,321,000 worth of cap space.

They still hold onto two of the leagues elite goaltenders, and have both locked up until the summer of 2015. Not without cost however, 9.3 million worth of cap space is parked inside the blue paint as of right now, but just how bad a scenario is this?

The blue line, most fans feel, is aptly guarded, even with the departure of beloved Sami Salo, the team has 7 capable guys locked up in Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison, Ballard, Tanev and Alberts. Ballard had a rough transition to Vancouver, and I believe came here injured. I expect him to have a bounce back year, but even if he plays just as well as he did last year: If Keith Ballard is your 6th Dman, you have DEPTH like no other! Do we need any more upgrades on D right now? I say we don't. We have some talent in the minors, and we could stand to add more sub million dollar depth for the wolves, and emergency call ups, obviously, but our D as it sits is one of the more rounded, deep defenses in the league. Thank you @JasonGarrison52.

The real questions are up front, and have been since our game 7 exit of the Stanley Cup Finals. It is no secret that it was not Lu's fault we couldn't score, and its no secret that despite Schneiders amazing turn in net in the postseason when he got a chance, we still could not score. These two goalies are the best tandem in the league today, but even they can't deke around 5 opposing players and go top shelf glove side on the likes of Quick and Tomas.

Most fans, at least the vocal ones are yelling to trade Luongo and bring in the fire power to help that situation out. This is not as easy as it looks, nor should it be, and to what end result? I believe Mike Gillis will and should keep both of these guys at least until the trade deadline, maybe even for a few years. It appears more and more that teams expect Lu to be on sale at Wallmart during the Rollback of the decade event. This will not add to our fire power, and frankly, you need to find a willing suitor before you can even begin to F leece them. stomping around talking about trading Lu for specific top six players in the league is putting the cart before the horse. But I digress..


The forward group as it stands has a great core, but not as big a core as we all imagine. Sure there is your Daniel, your Henrik, Kesler and Burrows, 2/3rds of two lines. That is amazing as it is, and there is a good group of 'not quite star top sixers' as well in that core, players like Raymond, Hansen, and I consider Lapierre part of that group as well. A fantastic bottom six centerman, who came to Vancouver under rated and almost unknown. While David Booth is relatively new to our team, he did manage to put up 16 goals in just 56 games, on par for a 24 goal season. His 5 game playoff experience was the first of his career, and one that will teach him more than any game footage or text book ever could. With a healthy Kesler, Booth will improve on his best Points Per Game average since 2009: last year a wonderful .52 ppg with Vancouver, and he also gets another year beyond his concussion, suffered in October 2009. I won't go on about all the guys playing Offense, but we can say the bottom six is well stocked, the top six have 5 solid performers. So we are once again missing that one piece up front.


The difference this coming year is that while we are missing that piece that we have been missing since the dawn of winning hockey in Vancouver, I call that year 2001, for the first time in what seems like ever we have no other holes on the club. In fact, with our two all star goalies, even at their price, we don't have to miss a beat if one gets hurt. Our seventh Dman is likely to be Andrew Alberts, and that is not a bad situation to be in. I have full faith in the other six guys being able to each hold down heavy minutes, and more than one of them put up points on the PP. Our bottom six with kassian, malhotra, Lapierre, Hansen, Higgins, and even Raymond, if he is not played on the second line, would be one of the most complete bottom sixes in the league. The Twins need no explanation, Burr and Booth are excellent complimentary players and Kesler when he gets better and joins the club remains the heart and soul of the club. What more do we want as fans? Oh yes, that elusive ELITE winger to fill the only hole on the club. Well, I can tell you there are 29 other teams that wish they had Vancouvers problems, and none of them will help us fix the only one we have by trading a star winger for one of our excellent goalies, and anything less would be ridiculous.

Edited by Primal Optimist, 03 July 2012 - 07:20 AM.

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#2 Kumquats

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:23 AM

Scoring in the playoffs. 16 goals in the last 12 games....
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#3 Moonshinefe

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:24 AM

Well you seem to be dancing around the fact we'll be without our 2nd line center for 20+ games. I think Lappy or Higgins could possibly handle it. For 3rd line center we could possibly give Malhotra another chance and see if that works out, or we could even try Ebbett. Then whoever's left of Ebbett/Malhotra can center the 4th line.

As far as top 6 wingers go, the consensus seems to be we should gun for Doan or Versteeg, which seem like reasonable upgrades to Raymond. Hopefully we can nab one of em! :)

Edited by Moonshinefe, 03 July 2012 - 07:25 AM.


#4 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:34 AM

Well, after Raymond's arbitration the Nucks will have about 3million available for FA, not bad, but not Doan and not Versteeg money. As for missing Kes, I am in fact taking MG for what he said at the prospects camp, live on stage. For 20 games, why not give Jordan Schroeder an opportunity? If he doesn't work, its easy enough to shuffle. I don't think you want to bring in a 2nd line center under a new contract for 20 games of filling in. Not really dancing around anything, the facts are there, the team has just one hole to fill for the first time in its existence. Jensen? possibly. 3m free agent? Likely. Trade Luongo for a superstar? Not going to happen, trade Luongo for a bag of pucks? Equally not going to happen.

Edited by Primal Optimist, 03 July 2012 - 07:35 AM.

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#5 Moonshinefe

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:37 AM

Well, after Raymond's arbitration the Nucks will have about 3million available for FA, not bad, but not Doan and not Versteeg money. As for missing Kes, I am in fact taking MG for what he said at the prospects camp, live on stage. For 20 games, why not give Jordan Schroeder an opportunity? If he doesn't work, its easy enough to shuffle. I don't think you want to bring in a 2nd line center under a new contract for 20 games of filling in. Not really dancing around anything, the facts are there, the team has just one hole to fill for the first time in its existence. Jensen? possibly. 3m free agent? Likely. Trade Luongo for a superstar? Not going to happen, trade Luongo for a bag of pucks? Equally not going to happen.


Not saying it'll happen, but potentially if Luongo is dealt to Florida that'd give us plenty of cap room if they hand us over Versteeg's trading rights in a deal.

#6 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:48 AM

Not saying it'll happen, but potentially if Luongo is dealt to Florida that'd give us plenty of cap room if they hand us over Versteeg's trading rights in a deal.

If your Florida's owner and the GM traded away the only forward RFA worth anything on your entire roster, would you sit back and say that is okay? Even if it got you as good a goalie as Luongo? Florida was number one in their division by the end of the season, what would trading Versteeg do to help that situation out?

edit: I might add that they did finish first in the division, but they did it with the lowest goals for in the entire conference over the course of the season. You don't repeat that if you trade away versteeg. On our end this deal looks great, of course I would want him here, but from their end, its not even a starter for the conversation on Luongo.

Edited by Primal Optimist, 03 July 2012 - 07:51 AM.

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#7 Sick Hands

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:55 AM

No one wants 10 schmil tied up in goaltending, lets be realistic here.

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#8 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:04 AM

Scoring in the playoffs. 16 goals in the last 12 games....


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#9 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:08 AM

No one wants 10 schmil tied up in goaltending, lets be realistic here.

In 2010-2011 the cap was 59.4 million

We are about to start the 2012-2013 season with 70.2

That is 10.8 million in cap growth. Lets say our goalies cost us 6 million in 10-11, or 10.10% of the cap
Right now they cost us 13.29% of the cap. Is it really that bad a situation to tie up an extra 3% of the salary cap, or 2.1 million in our goaltending? We are talking 3% of the cap in differential in order to maintain 2 elite goalies, rather than one and a backup, as per 2010-11 costs. Why do you think no one wants to tie up 9.33m in goalies? I do, I am sure there are others.

Although I like your sig and would agree with you on AV, but that is a different topic altogether.

Edited by Primal Optimist, 03 July 2012 - 08:10 AM.

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#10 Tangerines

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:10 AM

Maybe Mattias, or Mueller would be good a fit here. If MG trades LU to Fla than either Bjugstad or Mattias would be nice.

#11 Sick Hands

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:20 AM

In 2010-2011 the cap was 59.4 million

We are about to start the 2012-2013 season with 70.2

That is 10.8 million in cap growth. Lets say our goalies cost us 6 million in 10-11, or 10.10% of the cap
Right now they cost us 13.29% of the cap. Is it really that bad a situation to tie up an extra 3% of the salary cap, or 2.1 million in our goaltending? We are talking 3% of the cap in differential in order to maintain 2 elite goalies, rather than one and a backup, as per 2010-11 costs. Why do you think no one wants to tie up 9.33m in goalies? I do, I am sure there are others.

Although I like your sig and would agree with you on AV, but that is a different topic altogether.


Personally I'd have that money spent on some scoring with size, something thats a much bigger issue than goaltending.
Yes I loved Lu but its time to move on, If we could get some picks or a prospect i'd be eccstatic.
Also, neither goalie would be happy splitting the games, there would definetly be some tension.
Schneids didnt stay here to play 25 games again, and Lu wont be happy with 40.

Its time to move on, and once that burden of a contract is lifted, this city will breathe a sigh of relief, I guarantee that.

Edited by Sick Hands, 03 July 2012 - 08:21 AM.

A Toast to Aquillini for getting Torterella.

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#12 Moonshinefe

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:22 AM

Personally I'd have that money spent on some scoring with size, something thats a much bigger issue than goaltending.
Yes I loved Lu but its time to move on, If we could get some picks or a prospect i'd be eccstatic.
Also, neither goalie would be happy splitting the games, there would definetly be some tension.
Schneids didnt stay here to play 25 games again, and Lu wont be happy with 40.

Its time to move on, and once that burden of a contract is lifted, this city will breathe a sigh of relief, I guarantee that.


I know some people on these boards who will cry themselves to sleep if Luongo gets shipped out. :lol:

#13 CanucksLuongoFTW

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:26 AM

We're missing Suter, Weber, Parise, Doan, Whitney, etc.
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#14 Primal Optimist

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

I would certainly love to have that money to fill the one hole in the top six that we could plug a superstar scorer into, but you miss the entire point of my post: who? and how do we get him? In real life you don't hit left, left, b, left start, down, x, right trigger and get the guy you want for the guy you don't. I don't see a path from Luongo to top six all star winger that doesn't involve simply a salary dump of one of the best 12 goalies in the league today. (i would say top ten, but I will drop a bit to top dozen for those that disagree)
I still don't see any team trading that top scoring right winger for Luongo, and I don't see a top scoring right winger on the open market that we can get to by trading Lu for picks and prospects, although that is an option.

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#15 Boudrias

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:28 AM

Well, after Raymond's arbitration the Nucks will have about 3million available for FA, not bad, but not Doan and not Versteeg money. As for missing Kes, I am in fact taking MG for what he said at the prospects camp, live on stage. For 20 games, why not give Jordan Schroeder an opportunity? If he doesn't work, its easy enough to shuffle. I don't think you want to bring in a 2nd line center under a new contract for 20 games of filling in. Not really dancing around anything, the facts are there, the team has just one hole to fill for the first time in its existence. Jensen? possibly. 3m free agent? Likely. Trade Luongo for a superstar? Not going to happen, trade Luongo for a bag of pucks? Equally not going to happen.

The backend looks pretty decent as long as all play up to their abilities.

Hoping to keep both goalies is a stretch. By suggesting it you seem to harbour reservations about Schneider. To me the offset is what Lou can bring back in a trade and that outweighs spending the CAP space to retain two goalies. I also do not agree with your assumption that Lou cannot bring back a significant return.

Van's greatest need is a top 6 player capable of igniting the 2nd line. To me that means a LW to play with Kes and Booth. Combine that with a 3rd line center, hopefully with some size, and the key needs would be filled. I do not see Manny or Lapierre in the 3rd center position. I also don't see Higgins or Raymond as 2nd liners other than injury relief. Since both play LW I see one going in a trade. It will probably be Raymond which is regretable as I think his game could be rebuilt around a 3rd line role with PK duty. The Canucks don't have the time to work that out as a CUP challenge is the imperative.

Van's trading options are with Lou, Raymond and Ballard to fill the forward needs.

#16 HorseGem2007

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

I would certainly love to have that money to fill the one hole in the top six that we could plug a superstar scorer into, but you miss the entire point of my post: who? and how do we get him? In real life you don't hit left, left, b, left start, down, x, right trigger and get the guy you want for the guy you don't. I don't see a path from Luongo to top six all star winger that doesn't involve simply a salary dump of one of the best 12 goalies in the league today. (i would say top ten, but I will drop a bit to top dozen for those that disagree)
I still don't see any team trading that top scoring right winger for Luongo, and I don't see a top scoring right winger on the open market that we can get to by trading Lu for picks and prospects, although that is an option.


Good post and comments Primal Optimist, agree with you on many points.
Now, do you think that trading Schneider would bring us that top six all star winger ?
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#17 Bodee

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:50 AM

Well, after Raymond's arbitration the Nucks will have about 3million available for FA, not bad, but not Doan and not Versteeg money. As for missing Kes, I am in fact taking MG for what he said at the prospects camp, live on stage. For 20 games, why not give Jordan Schroeder an opportunity? If he doesn't work, its easy enough to shuffle. I don't think you want to bring in a 2nd line center under a new contract for 20 games of filling in. Not really dancing around anything, the facts are there, the team has just one hole to fill for the first time in its existence. Jensen? possibly. 3m free agent? Likely. Trade Luongo for a superstar? Not going to happen, trade Luongo for a bag of pucks? Equally not going to happen.


Well, Mike Knuble is available at $2M..............for a proven and regular scorer with a big body that's a snip.........6'-3"@ 230 lbs.................220 goals since turning 30.............Big winger for Kes/Schroeder and Booth or big body on the right for the Sedins.
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#18 lmm

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:57 AM

The Vancouver Canucks sit this morning with 5,321,000 worth of cap space.

They still hold onto two of the leagues elite goaltenders, and have both locked up until the summer of 2015. Not without cost however, 9.3 million worth of cap space is parked inside the blue paint as of right now, but just how bad a scenario is this?

The blue line, most fans feel, is aptly guarded, even with the departure of beloved Sami Salo, the team has 7 capable guys locked up in Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Garrison, Ballard, Tanev and Alberts. Ballard had a rough transition to Vancouver, and I believe came here injured. I expect him to have a bounce back year, but even if he plays just as well as he did last year: If Keith Ballard is your 6th Dman, you have DEPTH like no other! Do we need any more upgrades on D right now? I say we don't. We have some talent in the minors, and we could stand to add more sub million dollar depth for the wolves, and emergency call ups, obviously, but our D as it sits is one of the more rounded, deep defenses in the league. Thank you @JasonGarrison52.

The real questions are up front, and have been since our game 7 exit of the Stanley Cup Finals. It is no secret that it was not Lu's fault we couldn't score, and its no secret that despite Schneiders amazing turn in net in the postseason when he got a chance, we still could not score. These two goalies are the best tandem in the league today, but even they can't deke around 5 opposing players and go top shelf glove side on the likes of Quick and Tomas.

Most fans, at least the vocal ones are yelling to trade Luongo and bring in the fire power to help that situation out. This is not as easy as it looks, nor should it be, and to what end result? I believe Mike Gillis will and should keep both of these guys at least until the trade deadline, maybe even for a few years. It appears more and more that teams expect Lu to be on sale at Wallmart during the Rollback of the decade event. This will not add to our fire power, and frankly, you need to find a willing suitor before you can even begin to F leece them. stomping around talking about trading Lu for specific top six players in the league is putting the cart before the horse. But I digress..


The forward group as it stands has a great core, but not as big a core as we all imagine. Sure there is your Daniel, your Henrik, Kesler and Burrows, 2/3rds of two lines. That is amazing as it is, and there is a good group of 'not quite star top sixers' as well in that core, players like Raymond, Hansen, and I consider Lapierre part of that group as well. A fantastic bottom six centerman, who came to Vancouver under rated and almost unknown. While David Booth is relatively new to our team, he did manage to put up 16 goals in just 56 games, on par for a 24 goal season. His 5 game playoff experience was the first of his career, and one that will teach him more than any game footage or text book ever could. With a healthy Kesler, Booth will improve on his best Points Per Game average since 2009: last year a wonderful .52 ppg with Vancouver, and he also gets another year beyond his concussion, suffered in October 2009. I won't go on about all the guys playing Offense, but we can say the bottom six is well stocked, the top six have 5 solid performers. So we are once again missing that one piece up front.


The difference this coming year is that while we are missing that piece that we have been missing since the dawn of winning hockey in Vancouver, I call that year 2001, for the first time in what seems like ever we have no other holes on the club. In fact, with our two all star goalies, even at their price, we don't have to miss a beat if one gets hurt. Our seventh Dman is likely to be Andrew Alberts, and that is not a bad situation to be in. I have full faith in the other six guys being able to each hold down heavy minutes, and more than one of them put up points on the PP. Our bottom six with kassian, malhotra, Lapierre, Hansen, Higgins, and even Raymond, if he is not played on the second line, would be one of the most complete bottom sixes in the league. The Twins need no explanation, Burr and Booth are excellent complimentary players and Kesler when he gets better and joins the club remains the heart and soul of the club. What more do we want as fans? Oh yes, that elusive ELITE winger to fill the only hole on the club. Well, I can tell you there are 29 other teams that wish they had Vancouvers problems, and none of them will help us fix the only one we have by trading a star winger for one of our excellent goalies, and anything less would be ridiculous.





Typical "Rose-coloured Glass" post
4 of your top 6 D are under 6' or 210# or both- that is a problem.
40 years in the Canucks still need a Norris quality D-man
One of you 2 "elite" goalies will want out before next trading deadline- causing that dreaded "Locker room dischord"
top line needs a winger
2nd line needs a winger
Booter hanging around making 4.5 but not earning a spot on either top line
3rd line needs a center and a grinding winger (Raffiesque)
12th or 13th forward needs to stike fear into the other team or at least his teammates.
Coach and Mgr are both afraid of players who take penalties
Mgr keeps trading for bad cntracts

yup pouyr me some more Koolaid!
Ra ra sis boom ba

#19 lmm

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:16 AM

I would certainly love to have that money to fill the one hole in the top six that we could plug a superstar scorer into, but you miss the entire point of my post: who? and how do we get him? In real life you don't hit left, left, b, left start, down, x, right trigger and get the guy you want for the guy you don't. I don't see a path from Luongo to top six all star winger that doesn't involve simply a salary dump of one of the best 12 goalies in the league today. (i would say top ten, but I will drop a bit to top dozen for those that disagree)
I still don't see any team trading that top scoring right winger for Luongo, and I don't see a top scoring right winger on the open market that we can get to by trading Lu for picks and prospects, although that is an option.



I don't see anyone trading a top 6 winger for Luongo either.
Nor do I see anyone trading a top 6 winger or top 2 D for either of Booter or Ballard.
Nor do I see anyone out there signing Oreo, Duco or Reinprect but I did notice that the "Detroit Model" no actually the Detroit Red Wings did sign Samuelson to a 2 year deal.

#20 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:17 AM

We need another star forward. That's what Gillis is trying to get with a Luongo trade.
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#21 Provost

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:24 AM

We will need to acquire either by signing or in a Luongo trade:

- a fairly low earning right handed D
- another skilled winger for the 2nd line.

I see signing Huselius for a 1yr $2.5 million contract if we can't get a bigger/better piece back from Luongo. He is not ideal as he doesn't improve the toughness in our top 6... but he does seem to be the ideal fit with Kesler and Booth in terms of being one of the best pure playmakers in the NHL.

If we are going into wishlist mode, trading for or sending an offer sheet to Weber would be a big bold move.
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#22 puckinaround

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:27 AM

I think we need a pure goal scorer and Semin comes to mind. He is a point a game player. Not going to happen though cause Gillis has character high on the list of qualities. Parise doesnt work here because we already have Kesler. Dont know enough about Nash to tell if it'd work. In my mind Id rather actually have Suter. The teams that have won have extreme depth in D. Another problem is we could not match up with Penner. I know this is beat to death but IMO we need someone tougher with skill and so far its not Kassian. He looked like a lost puppy last playoffs.

#23 blueliner1955

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

yeppers they need players who can score score score come on gillis find some goal scorers canucks cant win 1-0 or 2-1 all the time needed goal scorers

#24 cbones13

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

What are we missing?

SCORING!!!

#25 kesler_is_clutch

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:55 AM

Luongo will be gone by the trade dead line! 9.3 is way to much for goalies!

#26 Meyer_Buttreeks

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

RICK NASH!!!!

I can't figure out why there isn't more buzz on this board about getting this guy in a Canuck's uniform. I realize it's not an easy deal to pull off but I truly believe that Nash playing with Hank and Daniel would make a formidable top line. Danny, Hank and Nash together could each top 100 points next season.

#27 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:58 AM

playmaker/sniper that can dangle. None of our players can dangle or snipe.


#28 BenSurgeon

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:00 AM

The Canucks still have to address the size upfront. I am tired of teams like LA and Boston pushing around the Canucks small forwards. If MG does not adress this need, expect another early playoff departure next spring.
Ben Surgeon

#29 Special Ed

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:01 AM

I'm not surprised if we turn down garbage offers and start the season with both goalies. We could get better value closer to the trade deadline when teams are a little more desperate. Anything could happen. The posters calling Lu being traded all off season are going to be mad though, because they look stupid.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#30 nuck7635

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:02 AM

Hitting.




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