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Can Raymond Re Define Himself?


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#61 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:17 PM

Booth was more of a presence? Decent? He had one assist, 7 shots, and a whopping 12 hits..wow, what a physical pressence. Raymond had 16 shots and was at least creating chances for that line. Booth was invisible. You dont know what you are talking about.


Atleast Booth had a hit, Raymond tried to make a hit on Kopitar and look ho well that turned out. Both had one assist, but Raymond was a -3 and Booth was only -1.

I know your a Raymond lover but face the fact that he sucks, he may have gotten more shots then Booth but that's the only thing he did better, and all of Raymond shot's were probably either Quick's chest, hit him somewhere else or else they missed the net. just like they have been all year.

Booth > Raymond.

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#62 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:19 PM

Booth and Raymond were was among the best players vs LA, 2 of the few that actually looked like they were aware it was the playoffs. Didn't show on the scoreboard, but had the rest of the team brought their effort, it would have.


There fixed it ^.


Booth was pretty good, Raymond was okay early in the series, but then was terrible as it went along, he was one of the most frustrating player to watch.

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#63 hockeyville88

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:20 PM

He's going to have to

The Canucks have shown him a lot of loyalty by continuing to give him so many opportunities to stay in the lineup and to stay here in Van.

I don't buy into the idea that his play has dropped off because of the injury. He was always a perimeter player and he had one good year where he benefitted from having good linemates, but he himself has always been an average player. The injury is almost a blessing in disguise for him because it earned him some extra leeway with management. Any other player would have been gone or at least been repeatedly healthy scratched by now.

He needs to reward the team for their loyalty by working harder and not looking for everyone else to tee him up for easy tap in goals. He needs to create chances for himself and his linemates too.
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#64 Smyl ( :

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:39 PM

too frail

#65 nuckin_futz

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:57 PM

At least he did this. Sure he was just ducking but mission accomplished. Canuck Nation's got to give him credit for this ...........



#66 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:16 PM

Atleast Booth had a hit, Raymond tried to make a hit on Kopitar and look ho well that turned out. Both had one assist, but Raymond was a -3 and Booth was only -1.

I know your a Raymond lover but face the fact that he sucks, he may have gotten more shots then Booth but that's the only thing he did better, and all of Raymond shot's were probably either Quick's chest, hit him somewhere else or else they missed the net. just like they have been all year.

Booth > Raymond.


It was everyone else that missed the net...... Raymond was the only one testing Quick, and from quality shooting areas, something he was criticized for not doing in the season. He set up rebounds and big chances shift after shift yet no one could bury. He played hard, more than you can say for the majority of the team who lacked effort and production.

Schnieds, Hansen, Hank, Raymond, Booth were our best players, in that order probably. Honorable mention to Dank and Weise, they played well in the little time they had.

Edited by CanucksSayEh, 03 July 2012 - 05:18 PM.


#67 RBCanucks

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:22 PM

Raymond would be great as a 13th forward. In our lineup with all the players we have, he will need to have a great training camp to make it back in the lineup without being given a handout.

The problem is, a 13th forward shouldn't be getting paid $3+ million per year to sit in the press box. I don't really see where he fits in the lineup. Any line he is on seems to fall to pieces. He isn't physical enough to play in the bottom 6 without detracting from the overall line dynamic and he isn't skilled enough to play in the top-6. Anywhere we put him we have better options.

I say sign him, trade him, and good riddance. Problem is, I don't think anyone wants him bad enough to trade for him.

#68 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:28 PM

It was everyone else that missed the net...... Raymond was the only one testing Quick, and from quality shooting areas, something he was criticized for not doing in the season. He set up rebounds and big chances shift after shift yet no one could bury. He played hard, more than you can say for the majority of the team who lacked effort and production.

Schnieds, Hansen, Hank, Raymond, Booth were our best players, in that order probably. Honorable mention to Dank and Weise, they played well in the little time they had.


Raymond was shooting the puck at Quick, he wasn't testing him.

He was bad, his speed created chances for him but he had no finish whatsoever, and the only reason he is marginally valuable is because of his speed, he's okay defensively but I think people give him too much credit for that, he had some good shifts in the playoffs but he really didnt do anything with those chances was really a negative factor in the end.

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#69 Spencer Drew

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:28 PM

I'd rather see Jensen, Kassian or a free agent like Mueller take his spot. His game is so f*cking frustrating.


How do you think the coaches/management feels? Hahaha
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#70 Boudrias

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:33 PM

Raymond is all about speed. It is what has given him his offence. I always thought his real potential was as a 3rd liner with PK time. Again his speed gets him to his check and he is great at stripping pucks. Raymond has dropped down the depth chart as Higgins has established himself in Van. The LW on the 2nd line is still open with Kesler at C and Booth on RW. That said I do not consider either Raymond or Higgins 2nd line wingers. Higgins is the better of the two.

I think the Canuck org screwed up this kid's development and he will be gone in a trade. I am assuming a Lou deal brings back a bona fide 2nd line LW. Raymond still has trade value.

#71 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:39 PM

Raymond was shooting the puck at Quick, he wasn't testing him.

He was bad, his speed created chances for him but he had no finish whatsoever, and the only reason he is marginally valuable is because of his speed, he's okay defensively but I think people give him too much credit for that, he had some good shifts in the playoffs but he really didnt do anything with those chances was really a negative factor in the end.


Can't call his chances a negative, negative is the other team's chances. The ones that our entire defence, Kes, Higgy and Manny set up nicely for the Kings. Raymond doesn't have a bullet shot, and yes, he hit Quick when close, but they bounced off and created second and third chances rather than getting absorbed from the perimeter. Everyone who was on the ice with Raymond was gifted with quality chances thanks to his efforts, guys that get payed as much or more and have higher expectations were the ones that failed to finish.

So many players should be on the *****list after LA before Raymonds even argued.

#72 EddieVedder

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:39 PM

I agree that Raymond will be back next year, and that it will be a make or break year. I just had to ask though. Where did you learn your sayings?

"His ass is gas"???? I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be "his ass is grass". (And I'm the lawnmower).
"Can't teach and old Goose New Tricks"???? Definitely supposed to be a dog. (I see your username - play on words?)

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but it just seemed strange.


This made me lol!

Anyway... Fans need a whipping boy too... Raymond is an easy target.
You cant question that he is a hell of a talent. And if you dont think his production wasnt hampered by a career threatening injury like he had, youve never played sports in your life. It takes time to recover, it takes time to get your confidence back, and I suspect he will be even stronger this year. It didnt help him that Kesler has completely forgotten how to play with his linemates. It also didnt help him that AV kept shuffling his 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines all year round. 2 seasons ago, we were elated with how well Kesler and Raymond fed off eachother. Its amazes how short peoples memories are on these boards.
I think hes an asset, and Id like to see him stick around.

#73 CRUNK

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:47 PM

Yes he can re-define himself......AS A LEAF OR A PANTHER!
......YOURS WITH A DEEP ABIDING RESPECT (A.K,A. I HATE YOU) .......... CRUNK

#74 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

Can't call his chances a negative, negative is the other team's chances. The ones that our entire defence, Kes, Higgy and Manny set up nicely for the Kings. Raymond doesn't have a bullet shot, and yes, he hit Quick when close, but they bounced off and created second and third chances rather than getting absorbed from the perimeter. Everyone who was on the ice with Raymond was gifted with quality chances thanks to his efforts, guys that get payed as much or more and have higher expectations were the ones that failed to finish.

So many players should be on the *****list after LA before Raymonds even argued.


I'm not saying him creating chances was a negative im saying his overall play was a negative, turnovers, not doing much with the puck, not burying on golden chances and the two big ones were the turnover on the Kopitar goal and missing that open net

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#75 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:56 PM







Raymond is not a bad player, he is just confidence-driven. When he plays well, he has an amazing snap/wrist shot and he was alsophysically effective in the Kings series last year.

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There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#76 G-52

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:58 PM

Theres a thread about jason garrison a few posts down, and in there is an article, in the article it says that mason raymond is one of garrisons better friends, garrison seems like the type of player that is always hard working and trying to improve himself, perhaps raymond will grow some pride playing with one of his friends and find a way to not suck anymore.

Either way i hope when raymond gets traded that garrison doesn't get pissed lol

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#77 thehamburglar

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:07 PM

He just need strength really. He can pass well, but he doesn't have the strength to get into the areas needs.
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#78 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:08 PM

Atleast Booth had a hit, Raymond tried to make a hit on Kopitar and look ho well that turned out. Both had one assist, but Raymond was a -3 and Booth was only -1.

I know your a Raymond lover but face the fact that he sucks, he may have gotten more shots then Booth but that's the only thing he did better, and all of Raymond shot's were probably either Quick's chest, hit him somewhere else or else they missed the net. just like they have been all year.

Booth > Raymond.


So you are going to rate Raymonds play from one play in the one game they actually won? Perhaps you should take Booths jock out of your mouth. Notice how the Canucks coaching staff wont even play Booth in any shorthanded situations? Hmmm I wonder why that is? And what exactly has Booth done in his tenure with the Canucks exactly? At his salary he was right up there with Kesler as the two most disappointing players on the team last season.
At least with Raymond if he isnt putting points up, he can actually contribute on the defensive end.
Raymond actually had 16 shots, 9 hits, had more takeaways and less giveaways, while actually playing in both directions. So other than hits, where did Booth outplay Raymond exactly?
Booth and Kesler were the reasons the 2nd line didnt contribute far more than Raymond was.
This doesnt show Im a Raymond lover it just shows you are a blind Raymond hater.

#79 Duodenum

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

Nope...small, weak, playoff choker, speed but no acceleration. Has always gotten by "looking good" but does nothing. It's always his speed will put pressure on the defense! Or, he had a lot of shots on net! Yawn.
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#80 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:18 PM

He's going to have to

The Canucks have shown him a lot of loyalty by continuing to give him so many opportunities to stay in the lineup and to stay here in Van.

I don't buy into the idea that his play has dropped off because of the injury. He was always a perimeter player and he had one good year where he benefitted from having good linemates, but he himself has always been an average player. The injury is almost a blessing in disguise for him because it earned him some extra leeway with management. Any other player would have been gone or at least been repeatedly healthy scratched by now.

He needs to reward the team for their loyalty by working harder and not looking for everyone else to tee him up for easy tap in goals. He needs to create chances for himself and his linemates too.


Youre kidding right? His linemates refused to even pass the puck to each other never mind Raymond. Interestingly when Kesler has his career high in assists, Raymond was on his wing.

And in reality the play of Kesler and Booth have been far more disappointing than the play of Raymond, given that those to are supposed to be premier power forwards on the team, and make significantly more money.

Raymonds has two tough seasons of injuries. The previous season he broke his thumb on his shooting hand, and his drop off in points wasnt that much. Then he breaks his back and doesnt get any off season training. You really think that doesnt effect his play? His balance being in a brace for 6 months and losing all of his core strength?

#81 Moonshinefe

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

It was everyone else that missed the net...... Raymond was the only one testing Quick, and from quality shooting areas, something he was criticized for not doing in the season. He set up rebounds and big chances shift after shift yet no one could bury. He played hard, more than you can say for the majority of the team who lacked effort and production.

Schnieds, Hansen, Hank, Raymond, Booth were our best players, in that order probably. Honorable mention to Dank and Weise, they played well in the little time they had.


Wow he had 1 point in 5 games with -3, but good thing he was trying hard right?

#82 NightHawkSniper

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:00 PM

I don't care what we get back for him, I want him GONE!

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#83 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:34 PM

Everybody loves Raymond... Except Canucks fans. :bigblush: Yeah, I'm bringing that joke back.. lol

But in all seriousness my guess is he needs to be traded, if not? Then he is probably going to be playing on the 3rd/2nd line when he sparks, we could then look at getting a 3rd line center like Jason Arnott instead of trying to acquire a 2nd line winger to play with Kes. :unsure:

Edited by Kesler's Nose, 03 July 2012 - 07:45 PM.

"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#84 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:51 PM

Raymond is not a bad player, he is just confidence-driven. When he plays well, he has an amazing snap/wrist shot and he was alsophysically effective in the Kings series last year.


Why are these Raymond lovers making him seem much better than he is

He was really Physically Effective here wasn't he?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-yx5MH6gQ

His amazing wrist shot and everything else was really on display in the playoffs right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY9dfqAC4qQ

- At around 0:20-28 he takes a shot from a terrible angle for some reason?


I didnt look at any of the other game highlights, and I didnt even look through this completely.

And if you watch this and others Booth was playing well in the series, 10 times better than Raymond, just watch the highlights from games 1 & 2.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 03 July 2012 - 07:51 PM.

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#85 bobopan

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:02 PM

Its all fine and dandy until we start playoff hockey and he becomes obsolete. He'll be on this team, because we have no one better right now but i hope by trade deadline MG finds a suitable upgrade.

#86 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:06 PM

Wow he had 1 point in 5 games with -3, but good thing he was trying hard right?


1 point more than most, could have been more with some focused linemates, he also drew a handful of penalties by out-skating LA rather than flopping.

He got the puck to the net, which is how LA won game 5, the difference was a team interested in playoff hockey vs a few players. Imagine if our defence and Kesler put forth half that effort, we woulda owned the Kings.

#87 cadillaccts

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:08 PM

Is it just me or does it seem like mayray is always falling down... he is very skilled and has soft hands but as the LA Kings proved you need to have that grit and strength to be sucessful when it counts. I just don't think Raymond has that grit and strength in him so when he is not producing he is practically useless. I think that MG will keep him though because he is really good friends with Garrison.



Yeah man, just you.

#88 cadillaccts

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:10 PM

He neds to redefine himself somewhere else.


Likely as a McDonald's line cook.

#89 Noheart

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

I'd rather see Jensen, Kassian or a free agent like Mueller take his spot. His game is so f*cking frustrating.


He broke his back, for the love of god cut him some slack.

can you image how frustrating that was for him?

Mueller?
a concussion away from being spoon fed, no thanks!

let training camp decide this one.
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BEASTLY!!!

#90 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

This team is suppose to be a Cup contender. Raymond has had two seasons to get his game together and hasn't really come close to what we saw in his career high. We can't afford to keep pissing around by keeping him around all season long hoping he finds his performance from two years ago. I think we could find a similar offensive performing player with more to often overall than Raymond; position flexibility, physicality, agitation, penalty killing, and consistency.
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